Banjooie
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Eytanz: This does not change my vague irritation that I have to harass you people every time I want to download a game that I paid for, and legally own, because I do not choose to pay an additional twelve dollars a year for a program that allows me to wget from within DROD, and a kinda cool chat program I guess.

mxvladi
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Chaco wrote:
Something I discovered recently is that if you engage a rattlesnake in combat by striking its tail, successfully defeating the rattlesnake doesn't remove the whole monster, but instead just the one tail segment, leaving the monster intact to be fought again.

You can do this thing with adder and serpent, too. They won't die immediately if you strike one of their tail segments. Like rattlesnake.

eytanz
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Banjooie wrote:
Eytanz: This does not change my vague irritation that I have to harass you people every time I want to download a game that I paid for, and legally own, because I do not choose to pay an additional twelve dollars a year for a program that allows me to wget from within DROD, and a kinda cool chat program I guess.

A few points:

A - I'm not involved in the business side of things at all, so it's not "you people".

B - Do you have a better solution? I mean, almost every game I know of requires some sort of email contact if you want to re-download it. Yes, Caravel offers a simpler way for people who buy their subscription content, but email contact is really the baseline, no?

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

aztcg7
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Well, we have a forum, that already has knowledge of which games we bought (at least, I assume it does, considering we register the purchase for the month of CaravelNet).

And even with CaravelNet, there are limits as to exactly how many times you can download the game without having to email support.

So, why exactly is CaravelNet required?

____________________________
In other news, is a considerably more stylish way to express sarcasm than , because everybody uses and I am /indie/. INDIE, I TELL YOU.

Briareos
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Banjooie wrote:
Eytanz: This does not change my vague irritation that I have to harass you people every time I want to download a game that I paid for, and legally own, because I do not choose to pay an additional twelve dollars a year for a program that allows me to wget from within DROD, and a kinda cool chat program I guess.

You should have gotten an email with a link for adding a trial month of CaravelNet to your account.

That's one use of said link.

The other use is to permanently add the game the link belongs to to your list of bought games so you can re-download it from the downloads page, whether you currently have CaravelNet or not.

If you didn't get that email that would be a bug or email problem, which sadly aren't unheard of in conjunction with automatic mails from Caravel's servers due to overzealous spam filters all around.

If you didn't click on the link - well, tough cookies...

EDIT: In short - what aztcg7 said...

np: Rhythm & Sound - Rhythm & Sound ft. Koki - Rise And Praise (Vainqueur Remix) (See Mi Yah Remixes)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

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[Last edited by Briareos at 11-10-2008 04:16 PM]

mrimer
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Hi, all. We might change the way downloads work in the future, but for now... (I thought I mentioned this earlier when I released 1.1, but if not, I apologize): Anyone who bought TT 1.0.x, registered it, but no longer has an active CaravelNet subscription, can just PM/e-mail me and I'll set you up so you can download the latest version again one way or another.

If you never registered your game in the first place, we'll have to get that part squared away first.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 11-10-2008 04:20 PM]

Banjooie
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Briareos wrote:
You should have gotten an email with a link for adding a trial month of CaravelNet to your account.

That's one use of said link.

OBJECTION.

That's only true..unless you purchase via Paypal.

In which case you only get an email with a download link. HEck, you don't even get to register your purchase, I'm relatively certain.

And I'm pretty sure that World of Warcraft has a fairly unique way to let you download the game: What with signing you up for an account, and then tying the registration of the game to your account....

Too bad such a thing isn't even remotely possible he----heeeeeey wait a second.

mrimer
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Banjooie wrote:
That's only true..unless you purchase via Paypal.

In which case you only get an email with a download link. HEck, you don't even get to register your purchase, I'm relatively certain.

We can register an order for anyone who purchased through PayPal if they simply send us their order confirmation. Making a stink about it is neither needed nor necessary.

So, I've gone ahead and taken care of that for you, Banj.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

coppro
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Okay. Caravel will now switch over to letting anyone download the full version, but only let them use it if they are signed onto a paying subscription to CaravelNet. That's what you meant, right?

What bugs me is that my account is still associated to DROD: TCB and TT, and yet I can't download from the CaravelNet section because I don't have a subscription. I know it's still associated because my subscription has lapsed two or three times and once I resubscribe, all my download links are still there. So why can't the download links check for account association and not CaravelNet?

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[Last edited by coppro at 11-10-2008 11:50 PM]

mrimer
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coppro wrote:
Okay. Caravel will now switch over to letting anyone download the full version, but only let them use it if they are signed onto a paying subscription to CaravelNet. That's what you meant, right?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

What bugs me is that my account is still associated to DROD: TCB and TT, and yet I can't download from the CaravelNet section because I don't have a subscription. I know it's still associated because my subscription has lapsed two or three times and once I resubscribe, all my download links are still there. So why can't the download links check for account association and not CaravelNet?

Matt can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's theoretically *possible*, though I don't handle any of the server code myself.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Banjooie
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I...no, it still is. The fact you've done it for me is cool beans, and, hey, thanks Mrimer.

However, it certainly doesn't mention this anywhere. And again, this is astonishingly clunky.

So, no, my complaint is still valid, my thanks for your assistance aside.

NiroZ
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So wait, you want to add on an extra process where the person not only has to buy the product, but sign up for an account for a non internet using game? WoW only does that because, well, you have to have an account to play wow anyway. Name an example of an internet sold game that risks alienating people while forcing them to sign up for an unnecessary account. And that's sold over the browser, not some fancy program.

Banjooie
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Wait.

Step 1: most people get a month of Caravelnet when they buy DROD.

Step 2: Thus they tend to make forum accounts anyway.

Step 3: We have proven that we can tie forum accounts to CaravelNet accounts, since the two are almost synonymous.

Step 4: We have also proven we can tie downloads to CaravelNet/Forum accounts.

Step 5: For some reason, despite the fact we can easily tie the download to the forum account, we still need CNet. I assume this is because they're really trying to sell CNet.

In the absence of anyone having a better explanation, I'm going to assume the only reason full downloads aren't tied to forum accounts, despite the fact it's clearly possible, is that it's another way they sell CaravelNet: Making it a pain in the ass to download a game you already own.

AlefBet
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I'm somewhat distressed that someone is observing the extra steps that Caravel will take on behalf of its customers and is then asserting a complaint about a perceived shady upsell.

The smart thing to do when you buy downloadable content over the internet is to back it up on a CD. It is very nice of Caravel to try to make it easier for people to get access to their downloads if they aren't responsible about keeping track of the stuff they buy, but I just don't see how this is an obligation for Caravel.

I'm sure they want the people who have supported them and bought their games to be able to enjoy them, and I've always been pleased that they haven't foisted any kind of DRM or other restrictive annoyances on their customers (things that really would make it necessary to maintain a CaravelNet account). Seriously, how does the fact that they made it easier for one group of people to get at downloads that they ought to have backed up anyway translate into an obligation to make it easier for everyone? Especially when a simple email will usually get you back on your feet?

If I realized that I forgot to save my copy of JtRH and couldn't get at it through my expired CaravelNet account, if my choices were to hunt down a credit card and go through PayPal to order another 12 months of CNet, or to send a polite email to the Caravel guys, I don't see how I would feel pressured into shelling out the money. The email is fewer steps.

Well, maybe I'd feel a bit sheepish about not keeping better track of my data, and I'd feel some desire to financially support the nice people who were willing to cover me despite my own laxity, but I don't see how I can ascribe that to shady motives on Caravel's part.

____________________________
I was charged with conspiracy to commit jay-walking, and accessory to changing lanes without signaling after the fact .

++Adam H. Peterson

Banjooie
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Ah, but the problem here is not 'I lost my DROD:RPG, ohnoes', it is 'You guys put patch content on the full install, as opposed to the patch install'.

Edit: That is to say, to get all the awesome patchy goodness, as opposed to just the bugfixes, whether I've bought the game or not, I still have to subscribe to your precious service.

Which is the only reason this even came up in the first place.

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[Last edited by Banjooie at 11-11-2008 07:56 AM]

Beef Row
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AlefBet wrote:
I'm somewhat distressed that someone is observing the extra steps that Caravel will take on behalf of its customers and is then asserting a complaint about a perceived shady upsell.

The smart thing to do when you buy downloadable content over the internet is to back it up on a CD. It is very nice of Caravel to try to make it easier for people to get access to their downloads if they aren't responsible about keeping track of the stuff they buy, but I just don't see how this is an obligation for Caravel.

I'm pretty sure this issue came up because the new graphics for RPG are only available if you download a NEW copy fully, not a patch. It's not really a backup thing.

EDIT: Maybe the new graphics file should be put up on the site as a standalone, if the replacement process is reasonably easy? That way people could patch to them with a smaller download, and without registration issues and quirks.

EDIT EDIT: Well, I see Banj replied ahead of me to say the same thing.


____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

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[Last edited by Beef Row at 11-11-2008 08:05 AM]

NiroZ
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I'm not sure I understand. Buying caravelnet does not enable you to download DROD products. The two are in no way linked, except you get bonus caravelent when buying the games.

And how dare mrimer patch content only on the full version and the demo version. If you really don't like redownloading the full version of the game again, get the demo version. It's free and you could easily maintain two versions if you wanted too.

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 11-11-2008 08:12 AM]

Banjooie
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First things first: The graphic updates are in, fact, freaking /awesome/. I am going to say that right now, you have done an excellent job, whoever it is that has done this. Good lord if I ever had a reason to finish that style I was working on this is it.

NiroZ: ...If you own a DROD product, CaravelNet allows you to download it again from the website. I assure you this is how it works.

How dare--what? What are you even talking about? Why don't we just ask the question a little more simply, maybe you misunderstood.

'Why does the patch not actually contain all the changes made to the game, when, theoretically, this is in fact the reason you release a patch in the first place?'

Or, perhaps, if I wanted to be especially cruel and barbed with my witty repertoire,

'Why do I, even with CaravelNet, have to download 95 MB (which admittedly is a small blip on my delicious broadband, but it's still somewhat perplexing) to change a series of small pixellated images?'

But, you know, I'm not even going to go that far. That is just up there on the 'nice things Banj would like to see in a world where I get things I want because they happen to be awesome.'

No, I think the only thing I could possibly push to strive for here is 'things you patch in a game should really go in the patch release.'

I...maybe I'm really spoiled? Is....do we not normally put things we patch in games in patches? Am I just..unused to the harsh realities of game development?

NiroZ
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Let me assure you how this works. You do not need caravelnet to download the games again. All you need is a forum account.

Ok, it would be nice to have it in a smaller patch (in fact, I'm not sure why the new graphics aren't in a patch, as opposed to modifications of the actual level set which isn't surprising that they're not in a patch), but I thought you were griping about the fact that you needed to email someone in order to redownload it.

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 11-11-2008 08:47 AM]

AlefBet
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Banjooie wrote:
In the absence of anyone having a better explanation, I'm going to assume the only reason full downloads aren't tied to forum accounts, despite the fact it's clearly possible, is that it's another way they sell CaravelNet: Making it a pain in the ass to download a game you already own.

This I don't follow. The Caravel guys seem to me to be pretty readily helpful about getting things to people. Mike has said that anyone who should have access to the new download, but doesn't because of a CNet lapse, can get it through emailing him. Given that, it doesn't seem to me that they're forcing an upsell at all. Again, it's easier to email Caravel than to set up an online transaction, so I don't see the arm-twisting.

A more ready explanation is that making things easier is an incremental process and the code monkeys are handling the requests as they can, considering it's not most of their day jobs. I mean, the forum email notifications still have evidence of PHP magic quotes in them, and I believe that would be relatively easy to fix, but it's just a matter of someone getting to it and allocating the time. In the meantime, emailing Caravel may be a kludge, but it's one of the more elegant and consistent kludges I've seen.

____________________________
I was charged with conspiracy to commit jay-walking, and accessory to changing lanes without signaling after the fact .

++Adam H. Peterson

Banjooie
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Do you have a cold, Niro? Cause, um, usually you aren't this bad with things like 'actual fact'.

If you do not have CaravelNet, you cannot download full versions of games, even if they are tied to your 'forum account'. I know this because otherwise I wouldn't have complained about this in the first place, but just redownloaded the full version. You are completely and utterly incorrect on this.

Edit: this is admittedly a lie. I may have quietly asked myself why the patch content wasn't in the patch, but I don't imagine I would have gone to the extreme of complaining about it in this thread.

So, we've agreed that graphics should be in a patch. I...I'm a little lost as to why you don't think modifications of a level set should be in a patch except for some arcane theory wherein someone could extrapolate the levels from the patch? I'm not sure, but I'll let that go for now.

I am griping about the fact that to completely and fully patch my game, I must use an undocumented method that requires interaction with the Caravel crew (Which, according to Alefbet, is something they're 'nice enough to do for us', that is, nice enough to let us patch the game we bought? What?), or pay for the right to bug fixes.

I will accept that for various reasons it is remarkably difficult to procure CaravelNet when you pay through the super sekrit Paypal method. Okay. That's fine.

But the fact of the matter is, if I didn't know this forum so well, I would be having a remarkably difficult time with all this.

And now, Alefbet.

Mike has said that anyone who should have access to the new download, but doesn't because of a CNet lapse, can get it through emailing him.

The only reason I even know I can go through the trouble of emailing him to get patch content that isn't in the patch (I'm going to keep saying this until you realize how ludicrous the concept is) is because I raised the argument in the first place.

So if I want things, raise a huge stink and argument about it? What? While I do enjoy the occasional argument I believe this would drain even my desire for jackassery and leave me doing that really creepy nice thing I was doing earlier and I don't think you want that no didn't think so

Given that, it doesn't seem to me that they're forcing an upsell at all. Again, it's easier to email Caravel than to set up an online transaction, so I don't see the arm-twisting.

Your choices are: Get our online service that lets you download the actual patch instead of the pretend patch, or email us and hope we're nice guys and give you a download link.

In Banj's Ideal World: You could get our online service which has a bunch of other nifty features, but since you already have a forum account which it is tied to, here, have your delicious full version. Alternately, when we patch content, we put the patched content in the patch. I guess email if for some reason these automated features fail.

A more ready explanation is that making things easier is an incremental process and the code monkeys are handling the requests as they can, considering it's not most of their day jobs.

I am relatively certain the technology I am asking for cannot possibly actually be missing considering it is right there and we can pay for it, I am asking for one of two 'code monkey jobs'.

a: The code by which we can already download games we own is tied to our forum account, which is clearly already possible.

b: when we patch content, we put all the patched content on the patch

In the meantime, emailing Caravel may be a kludge, but it's one of the more elegant and consistent kludges I've seen.

I am glad I did not have to explain that it was a kludge, and an icky looking one at that. I am still a little perplexed as to why continually handling email transactions for people trying to patch your game is in fact somehow easier than just, and I'm going to italicize this one...

Putting the patch content in the patch.

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[Last edited by Banjooie at 11-11-2008 08:57 AM]

NiroZ
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Ok, I must have a cold. I thought you had caravelnet. (little cup at the bottom of your post kinda gives that away) I am surprised to hear that you can't download the full game from the download location if you don't have caravelnet. I thought it was for everyone. Odd.

The reason I don't mind the full game being only patched by a new build of the game is because you've either played the game or you haven't. Not many people replay a puzzle game, simply because they've already figured it out. Ok, not many people normally replay a game anyway. Besides, there's a technological/time issue.

Wouldn't the new graphics just be an update of the generaltiles.png and the other templates? There really shouldn't be any difficulty putting it in the patch.

Banjooie
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Yeah, I /just/ got CNet, because I complained in this thread.

Mrimer then complained I was making a stink. But, yes, without CNet, no full versions for you.

As for that, I'm glad we agree about everything but the level sets which I don't even want to argue about right now.

eytanz
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Look, Banjooie, you're absolutely right about how things *should* be. And it's good that you complain, because that might make things change. But you've gone from complaining that things are not as they should be to attributing motives to why they are not that way, which is totally unjustified.

There are two reasons that the current situation is as it is:

1 - Lack of foresight. When the current patching system was set in place, no-one anticipated that graphics would need to be updated. Therefore, the patching system is not designed to handle them gracefully. Similarly, when the download system was set up, it was not set up to enable non-Caravelnet associated downloads. I don't know why this was done - only Erik, Mike and Schik know - but the point is, it wasn't.

2 - Lack of resources. It doesn't matter if a change is big or small, it still needs to be made. Caravel is a small-time operation. There's only one person who can make changes to the forum, and that's Schik. There's only one person who can make changes to the patching system, and that's Mike. Both have full-time jobs other than DROD, and a limited amount of DROD time. Even if it only takes ten minutes to fix one of these things, that won't happen right away. And I'm not sure that without knowing *how* the systems were set up, we can guess how long it will take.

Now, unless you have a time machine there's nothing that can be done about (1), and unless you are willing to just hand Caravel a lot of money there's nothing that can be done about (2). So yeah, for now there's a workaround which is annoying. But there's a difference between complaining that something isn't right and between petulantly whining and demanding that it's not changed *right now*, and when it's not attributing it to any deliberate ill-will. There's plenty of things that I'd love Caravel to do better, mostly for their own sakes. But I recognize that it's not all going to be possible, and that what will happen will happen very slowly.

And yes, Caravel's customer support process is not without its issues, but it's still better than the customer support you can get from a lot of bigger companies with more resources. So stop focusing on the negative, and stop making false statements like:

But, yes, without CNet, no full versions for you.

When the truth is more like:

But, yes, without CNet, full versions are a hassle.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

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[Last edited by eytanz at 11-11-2008 11:44 AM]

Banjooie
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Banj said you can't get full version without CNet! Hurf de durf you liar!

In which we take things out of context. Clever, Eytanz, but I was referring to the download page. Good try!

But hey, I think this is the first point at which someone has actually gone 'actually you're right' instead of 'GOD WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU WHY DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND YOU CAN EMAIL CARAVEL YOU TERRIBLE FIEND' so I'm glad we're at least getting somewhere here.

If someone had gone 'actually that makes sense' instead of 'banj why are you being crazy and suggesting things instead of just emailing support', maybe we wouldn't have had to hijack this entire thread.

Thank you for standing up, Eytanz. Very, very gracious of you, and it's muchly appreciated.

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[Last edited by Banjooie at 11-11-2008 11:08 AM]

techant
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So, I am totally confused and perplexed now....

I downloaded the patch from the carvelnet download section. I thought to myself, "where is the really nice artwork that others were talking about?". Are you saying the patch I got did not really fix my game and add the artwork I expected was not included. And that I need to download the full version again, re-install it and then upload my player info into the new game?

I agree that I do not understand why the patch doesn't have everything I need.


Edit: I just looked in my game and I do not see anyway to download a patch from there.

____________________________
DROD RPG Released!! You must try it out it is Great!!

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[Last edited by techant at 11-11-2008 11:33 AM]

eytanz
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Banjooie wrote:

Banj said you can't get full version without CNet! Hurf de durf you liar!

In which we take things out of context. Clever, Eytanz, but I was referring to the download page. Good try!

For what it's worth, I was apparently being stupid, not clever, as I simply did not understand that you were talking about the download page. Actually, re-reading your post I still don't see how one could understand it from that.

I'm fully willing to believe you intended something different than your post actually says, but my mind-reading skills are a bit rusty. (I did edit my post so that I'm not longer blaming you of being a liar, which you aren't, and am just blaming you of making false statements, which you did).

If someone had gone 'actually that makes sense' instead of 'banj why are you being crazy and suggesting things instead of just emailing support', maybe we wouldn't have had to hijack this entire thread.

Honestly, I thought that was implied as far back as my first post (well, at least about the patching system, it's true it hadn't occured to me that the forum already should have enough info to help the non-Caravelnet people download). But fair enough.

Techant Wrote

I agree that I do not understand why the patch doesn't have everything I need.

Short answer: as mentioned above, the patching system just isn't set up for it, not without making the patch essentially identical to the full download. This was because when the patching system was introduced, it was not foreseen that graphical changes like this would happen.

I think at this point several things are clear:

- The patching system needs to be improved.
- Until it is, information about how to get the graphical improvements needs to be given a lot more clearly.

For the meanwhile, Techant - you have Caravelnet, so just click on the "download" link at the top of the forum, and download the full version of the RPG. You can install it over the current version without losing data, and it will give you the new graphics.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

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[Last edited by eytanz at 11-11-2008 11:43 AM]

techant
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Thank you eytanz. I did download it but I didn't know I could just install it over it. I tell you it is very hard to find patches. When I found the .54 patch thread it didn't have the .54 patch. I think more attention should be given to patches. ie give it a thread in the RPG Board section. Then explain to the various types of purchasers the methods they can use to get the patch. I am sure that different forum members would help members and visitors find the right solutions with the least frustration. Just a suggestion.

____________________________
DROD RPG Released!! You must try it out it is Great!!

mrimer
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I see there's some confusion about patches, so let me explain some things, and hopefully this helps.

techant wrote:
I did download it but I didn't know I could just install it over it.

I dunno...I thought I posted in the notification about the 1.1 patch that if you want the new graphics, you have to get the demo/full version installer and install it on top of your existing version. I don't know how to make it more explicit than that. Thoughts?

I tell you it is very hard to find patches.

The official patches are on the Downloads page -- the link at the top of the page just under the "Caravel Forum" banner. Having the latest patches on this page hasn't changed in something like four years. I can't think of a better name for a link for where to go to download the latest content than "Downloads" and have it featured at the top of the page.

When I found the .54 patch thread it didn't have the .54 patch.

That's because that thread is for beta and RC candidate patches only, not the official patch. I make this clear whenever I post patches there. I put them there temporarily for people who are actively helping out with testing or bug reporting, or veteran players who want to be "early adopters" and don't mind having to back up their player data before patching to be on the safe side. We don't publicize the beta patches outside of the "Bugs" boards because we want to have some agile coding methodology put into practice for quicker turn-around time given our limited resources, but we don't want to accidentally corrupt players' data if something isn't rock solid. This method seems to work well.

I think more attention should be given to patches. ie give it a thread in the RPG Board section. Then explain to the various types of purchasers the methods they can use to get the patch. I am sure that different forum members would help members and visitors find the right solutions with the least frustration.

We already have a sticky thread devoted to patches on the General board. It's been there for over three years. Whenever a new official patch is released, Erik or I have posted a notice there and given a reference or a link to where to download the patch. Sorry for the frustration. I didn't realize it was so hard to find/understand these threads and links.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 11-11-2008 04:15 PM]

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5164
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Banjooie wrote:
If someone had gone 'actually that makes sense' instead of 'banj why are you being crazy and suggesting things instead of just emailing support', maybe we wouldn't have had to hijack this entire thread.

I'll try to take responsibility for this one too. I apologize for not being more explicit in validating your concerns in my earlier responses. I totally agree a patcher should give you all the latest game content that other people also get when they buy the game today (assuming there wasn't any kind of limited-time special offer or something). Everything Eytan said about Caravel's issues is spot on. Most relevant: we have limited resources and must prioritize. Here are the issues related to patching:

People are assuming it's trivial or at least simple to include new content in our patcher. While this is technically true, this would require maintaining a separate patcher for the demo and full versions, as I mentioned on page 1 of this thread, and the full patch would then only be available to registered players. Also, the patch utility would need to include a complete copy of the new drodrpg1_0.dat file. Please note this file alone is basically the same size as the complete install since all content is embedded in it. (Just like WoW -- they make you download an updated 5GB data file for a patch, and no one flinches, right?) Hence, there is no benefit to posting such a patch compared to simply providing a new demo/full installer than gives you the exact, same content.

Second option -- make a more sophisticated patch installer that selectively updates records in the game's DB so an entire 100GB .dat file need not be included. This is also technically possible, but it would require, as I explained on page 1 of this thread, a significant engineering undertaking (translated -- it would take a long time to do). Here are the alternatives: spend time releasing the next SmS, or spend time improving the patching system. Each of these would probably require an equivalent amount of my time. And, when these are the choices for what to work on till the end of the year, I'm going to choose to release the next SmS. Maybe some people would prefer to get a better patcher rather than the next expansion pack by Christmas, but I'll take responsibility for this decision when I declare that's not my priority.

Banjooie, I've taken the time to explain this to you here because you said making a public stink is necessary and it seems you demand public validation and a public answer. But, honestly, when DROD RPG was released, you were complaining publicly that Caravel was choosing to expend its limited resources on something that you might not like instead of giving you more of the game that you already like. Considering you said this, I really don't understand why you would now be lobbying for Caravel to work on improving the patcher so you don't have to send me an e-mail instead of supporting us in getting the next classic DROD game done. You have made your point, but it appears you haven't thought this part through.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 11-11-2008 04:35 PM]