Announcement: Be excellent to each other.


Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : General : Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG
1
Page 2 of 2
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Poster Message
Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (+1)  
I don't like the fact that underoptimizing at one point affects your score at every subsequent point. In DROD proper, every room was independent--sure, you might have subsections in a room such that taking 100 moves too long on the first part meant a lower score even if you were perfect on the rest; but then again, that still only comes to a single high score. Whereas if my score is suboptimal at the first scorepoint in Tendry's Tale, it'll be suboptimal at every single scorepoint in the rest of the hold.
09-28-2008 at 01:56 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Beef Row
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 471
Registered: 12-28-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (+1)  
Tahnan wrote:
I don't like the fact that underoptimizing at one point affects your score at every subsequent point. In DROD proper, every room was independent--sure, you might have subsections in a room such that taking 100 moves too long on the first part meant a lower score even if you were perfect on the rest; but then again, that still only comes to a single high score. Whereas if my score is suboptimal at the first scorepoint in Tendry's Tale, it'll be suboptimal at every single scorepoint in the rest of the hold.

Technically, it's worse than that, as optimal choices for one scorepoint tend to focus on maximizing health, keys and stats for then and there, likely at the expense of long term optimal choices. Heck, I'm pretty sure the optimal choice for later scorepoints would be to not trigger the first scorepoint *at all* in the official hold.

____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"
09-28-2008 at 04:27 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (0)  
Yeah, it would be cool if it calculated the diff between the last scoring point and this scoring point instead.
09-28-2008 at 05:05 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Mechadragon
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 61
Registered: 10-30-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (0)  
I think I'm okay with optimizing for score point A or B effectively being a different game from optimizing the very last score point.
09-28-2008 at 05:15 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
zex20913
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (0)  
I don't like that some parts feel like "cheating". For example, in the mud mother room, the spider is avoidable, with diagonal stepping. Also, pretty much every goblin in the game is able to be passed without damage due to nifty sword placement. There was something with the aumtlich as well...though I'm not recalling exactly what.

____________________________
Click here to view the secret text

09-28-2008 at 02:53 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
eytanz
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (+1)  
zex20913 wrote:
I don't like that some parts feel like "cheating". For example, in the mud mother room, the spider is avoidable, with diagonal stepping. Also, pretty much every goblin in the game is able to be passed without damage due to nifty sword placement. There was something with the aumtlich as well...though I'm not recalling exactly what.

I'm not sure about the vague aumtlich one, but the spider and goblin things are definitely by design.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!
09-28-2008 at 02:58 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
bwross
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 376
Registered: 04-17-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (+1)  
Tahnan wrote:
I don't like the fact that underoptimizing at one point affects your score at every subsequent point.

Yeah, that is a bit of a problem with TotS-likes because of the general game design. However, it can be mitigated a bit with design of the holds... much the same way you don't have to use less popular things like Orb puzzles when making a hold for regular DROD. One thing is that holds will likely be shorter for RPG than regular DROD... because it's a lot harder to produce and test a really large RPG hold because all the rooms are in play and active. Shorter holds will naturally be more forgiving of an early mistake in optimization (and easier to replay if you do). User made RPG holds the size of Tendry's Tale will probably be less common than user DROD holds the size of KDD, JtRH, or TCB (which are already pretty rare).

Another thing is that if you are going to make a long RPG hold, there are things that you can do to keep the butterfly effect in check. The most obvious is what's already done in TT... mug the character and reset them so everyone is even again. Sure, it breaks up the hold into multiple sub-holds (which could have be released that way), but if you're developing a long story it's an option that helps keep things more manageable.

In any case, it's a bit early to see how things will play out in practice. Holds that get through architecture are human evaluated and thus need to be fairly reasonable... if people don't like long slogs where early mistakes can really screw you, then you're not going to see that sort of hold go to the Holds board very often.
09-30-2008 at 04:42 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (0)  
????

I...not to my understanding?
10-26-2008 at 08:03 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (0)  
In that case you might want to up your gamma.
10-26-2008 at 08:48 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Sillyman
Level: Smiter
Avatar
Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (0)  
I currently don't love that this awesome patch that was made hasn't been ported yet.

____________________________
Who, me?
FNORD
11-08-2008 at 02:14 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (0)  
..Wasn't that basically used, like, twice, in the first half of the game?


11-08-2008 at 07:00 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (+1)  
I don't remember that. Are you sure it wasn't that you just had your gamma settings too low?
11-08-2008 at 07:36 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Sillyman
Level: Smiter
Avatar
Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (0)  
I remember that occuring a few times... without the invisibility of obstacles. The darkness was very, very mild and seemed only to provide ambiance.

____________________________
Who, me?
FNORD

[Last edited by Sillyman at 11-08-2008 07:19 PM]
11-08-2008 at 06:45 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Sillyman
Level: Smiter
Avatar
Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (0)  
With gamma at default (at least on my system), everything is visible and the darkness is still noticable and still provides that atmosphere you want and that was intended. Those rooms being invisible because of the darkness was not intended. So yes, you have your gamma turned waaay too far down.

Edit: Yup, just checked, and you might want to set your gamma to 1.0. Unless it's already there, in which case set your video card/monitor gamma higher.

____________________________
Who, me?
FNORD

[Last edited by Sillyman at 11-08-2008 07:24 PM]
11-08-2008 at 07:23 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Briareos
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (0)  
Sillyman wrote:
With gamma at default (at least on my system), everything is visible and the darkness is still noticable and still provides that atmosphere you want and that was intended. Those rooms being invisible because of the darkness was not intended. So yes, you have your gamma turned waaay too far down.
Ummm... just a basic question:

Who of you is using a CRT monitor, and who is using a TFT display?

Because usually CRT monitors are waaay darker than TFTs...

np: Max Tundra - Glycaemic Index Blues (Parallax Error Beheads You)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009) :(
11-08-2008 at 08:04 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Sillyman
Level: Smiter
Avatar
Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
IP: Logged
icon Re: Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG (0)  
Ah, that would explain it. Yes, I'm using a backlit LCD...

____________________________
Who, me?
FNORD
11-08-2008 at 09:32 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
1
Page 2 of 2
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : General : Things I currently don't love about DROD: RPG
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.