Roach King
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 19
Registered: 02-09-2004
IP: Logged

File: The Mad House.hold (65 KB)
Downloaded 164 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

This is my first hold, and for me, its moderately difficult, but pretty fun. Please play it and tell me what you think!!






[Edited by Roach King on 03-27-2004 at 05:26 AM GMT]

[Edited by Roach King on 03-27-2004 at 05:39 AM GMT]

[Edited by Roach King on 03-28-2004 at 02:18 AM GMT]

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zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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I am finding this a very good hold so far. Not too difficult as to be head-bashing, yet not too easy as to dull.

However, there is one MAJOR problem with 3N on Ok... It is not possible to solve. There are brains which can only be gotten at by a mimic, but the only mimic potion is surrounded by green doors. A DROD paradox if you will.

Very enjoyable hold otherwise.

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Roach King
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 19
Registered: 02-09-2004
IP: Logged

oops...Sorry...I put a stiarcase in 2S of YUM!! if you don't want to do it all over again...Aslo, please don't use it if you haven't reached OK... yet.

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joker5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 607
Registered: 11-25-2003
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You want my advice? Cut 2n4&5e. They're makework, boring, tedious. If there were obvious(or not-so-obvious) patterns smaller spaces, I'd like it. As it stands they're just tedious.

~joker5

____________________________
Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

In YUM! in the tar room with trapdoors, a couple of save points wouldn't go amiss. Finding the trapdoors is guesswork, so completing the room can take a number of attempts.

In OK... The Entrance, I was having difficulty so I left that room and completed what I could of the rest of the level. I returned to The Entrance and now find it impossible. It seems to me that you made The Entrance the hardest room on this level, though I obviously haven't been able to go west, (young man), from there yet.

BTW, the 1N2W, 1N3W, 2N3W combination is downright mean. There's nothing to do, but a restore is required. I agree with Joker that a couple of rooms are tedious, and I'd add OK... 1N1E to those.

Other than that, it's been a pleasant way of passing the evening so far.

Roach King
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 19
Registered: 02-09-2004
IP: Logged

The entrance was supposed to be easy, and unless you completed it right away, you can't finish the level.

If your still having trouble,

See?Easy!!

As for 1N2W, 1N3W, and 2N3W, they are traps, which occur a bunch of times throughout this hold.

For the final Vesion, I probably will shorten 1N1E and 2n4&5e in their suggested levels, because I agree with you when you say that they're too long .

Also, you can add 5W (YUM!!) to the tedious list

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bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

Roach King wrote:
The entrance was supposed to be easy, and unless you completed it right away, you can't finish the level.

Exactly my point. If you leave the room and come back from the north, it appears to be impossible. The only way to get back into a position to beat the room is to delete the hold along with saved games and restart from the beginning of the first level. Maybe you should make impossible to leave the room until it has been defeated.

If your still having trouble,

Click here to view the secret text

×Try taking out the main source of trouble....
These are SMART roaches, and theres got to be a way to out wit them...

See?Easy!!

Yes, I know the room is easy, but the first time I made a mistake, so I backed out of the top of the room and re-entered, leaving me with the mess mentioned above.

As for 1N2W, 1N3W, and 2N3W, they are traps, which occur a bunch of times throughout this hold.

If there are a bunch of traps that you can get out of only by restoring a game, then I doubt I will bother playing any further. If there was a checkpoint in every room so you would only need to restore one room back, then it would be a different matter.

(The following has nothing to do with your hold, but while I am on the subject of checkpoints...)
A checkpoint doesn't only need to be there to make a room easier or to allow for typo's. It can also be used as a reference for restoring in case someone screws up further down the level, and doesn't need to be in a position where it helps the player to complete the room. Personally I think every room should have such a checkpoint, as it also helps make it easier to find a room to restore from on the restore screen. Having said that, I am sure the experienced architects will be along to give me a good reason why this shouldn't be so.

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

I've played this hold as far as I could which is level 4 (Shh.. it's a secret) where I am stuck as I can't lower the blue doors. It's probably because the room with the two roach queens is required, yet you can't leave it.

I would rank this hold easy to moderate. The good thing is that it shows potential and could easily be made harder if you wanted to. For example, make the player work at killing those snakes, don't have them heading to their doom right from the start.

I'm afraid though that there are also several bad points in this hold. As bandit pointed out, rooms you can enter but not leave is downright mean, especially since it often means redoing entirely the previous room due to lack of savepoints. I would therefore remove or modify: Yum, 4N, 1N4E, 1S3W (make it possible to exit the room once solved), OK 1N2W, 1N3W, 2N3W, Shh.., 5W and 5S. If you don't do that, you're going to put a lot of people off from playing your hold.

There are also several rooms which are plain boring because they just require brainless hacking. The worst of those is Yum 5W (1430 moves to solve it, about 1400 of these being pressing QW). Other rooms like that are Yum 1W, Hehehe Entrance, 1W and 1S1W.

To finish off with the bad points, I didn't like Yum 2N5E, not because it is hard but because it is tedious searching for 4 trapdoors hidden under tar. You could solve this problem by making the trapdoor visible at the start as they'd get covered at first tar growth. I also found Yum 3N1W, 2N2W, 4N1E, Ok 1S and 1N1E to be pointless.

My favorite room so far is Yum 1S1E, probably because it is more challenging than the others. You probably want to leave it as not required as it doesn't match the difficulty of the rest of the hold. Other rooms I found more interesting were Yum 1N1W, 3W, 4S2W, Ok 1S2W (because you have to be daring), 4N1W (if entered from the south, easy otherwise), 7N2W and Hehe 1S2W.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

I am in just about total agreement GDS, except for the most tedious room. I'm going for level 3 1S1W, with 851 monsters and 3243 moves. I'm pretty sure I have gone cross-eyed.

I have also reached the point on level 4 where the blue doors won't open.

I am sure a lot of these rooms could easily be made into decent puzzles - not by me, I hasten to add.

Roach King
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 19
Registered: 02-09-2004
IP: Logged

I just re-attached the newest version of the hold to my first post.

Again, there are staircases that leads to the level in which you left off in 2S of YUM!!!.

Saying that, please don't go ahead to levels you haven't been to yet, because I have modified most of the tediously boring rooms a bit, to, what I think, is much better.



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bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

Roach King wrote:
I just re-attached the newest version of the hold to my first post.

Again, there are staircases that leads to the level in which you left off in 2S of YUM!!!.

Saying that, please don't go ahead to levels you haven't been to yet, because I have modified most of the tediously boring rooms a bit, to, what I think, is much better.

Let me get this straight. You failed to make level 4 so that it could be completed, so you put warp stairs in, and then dedicated a full level to calling anyone who uses them a cheat. A copy of "How To Win And Influence Friends" is in the post.

Roach King
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 19
Registered: 02-09-2004
IP: Logged

Roach King wrote:
I just re-attached the newest version of the hold to my first post.

Again, there are staircases that leads to the level in which you left off in 2S of YUM!!!.

Saying that, please don't go ahead to levels you haven't been to yet, because I have modified most of the tediously boring rooms a bit, to, what I think, is much better.

.

Aparently, you cheated. As I said, "Saying that, please don't go ahead to levels you haven't been to yet, because I have modified most of the tediously boring rooms a bit, to, what I think, is much better". If everyone skipped ahead to the farthest level, then i wouldn't be able to get any more feedback on the additions/ changes, as well as the hold itself. I know that the cheating factor was HUGE, and by making that level, I was hoping to lower that risk. Seeing as nobody, including you, was able to get past level 4, so what were you dong using that staircase? One of the changes that made just happened to be on that level, and if everyone skipped ahead, then how would I know whether or not that they were for the better?

Let me get this straight. You failed to make level 4 so that it could be completed, so you put warp stairs in, and then dedicated a full level to calling anyone who uses them a cheat.

No, only those of you who warp past the level in which you left off.

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bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

Apparently you haven't read all this thread or you would know exactly how far I got. If it had been possible to open the blue door I would have finished the hold. Did you think I was going to waste my time going through rooms *again* that take the mickey and do absolutely nothing else?

[Edited by bandit1200 on 03-28-2004 at 07:16 AM GMT]

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

Hum, calm down you two.

Roach king, no need calling anybody a cheater because he used a wrap room. They're there, he can use it. Whether or not that person has previously completed the level (bandit1200 did), he is still playtesting your hold. When you release the final version of your hold, the one that matters, you can wall off the warp room and people will play the hold the way you intended.

Bandit1200, you should actually checked the new version and play it through from the beginning. Your comments are a bit misdirected as Roach king took our comments into account and replaced all the tedious room. There are no more room that take the mickey anymore (well, at least not intentionnally anyway).

So Roach king, I am really pleased with the changes you've made. What was, in my opinion, an easy but boring and sometimes tedious hold has now become good and challenging. Too challenging maybe, as I can't see how to complete Yum 1N5E. Are you sure it is possible ?

There are still a few problems:

It's not possible to come out of Yum 3W. You need to move the exit one square east.

Ok 2N1E has a solution that I don't think you intended:


There is no way to leave The last level 1N2W as you can't collapse the red door in 1N1W. Maybe the orb to open the door below the tar is missing ?

Similarly, there is also no way to leave 1N3W due to the red door in 1N2W. Note that I haven't even try to complete that room as you say it's impossible.

I think there were a few more things but that's all I can remember. More checkpoints would be welcome though. The last level, 4N3W could do with one at the bottom near the tar, for example.

I haven't been able to complete the hold due to the problem on the last level but I have to say that i like it.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

gds wrote:

Bandit1200, you should actually checked the new version and play it through from the beginning. Your comments are a bit misdirected as Roach king took our comments into account and replaced all the tedious room. There are no more room that take the mickey anymore (well, at least not intentionnally anyway).

I objected strongly to being called a cheat. I warped to level 4 and played the new room which replaced the two roach queens, but the stairs took me back to level 1. The warp stairs indicated another level which couldn't be reached from level 4. If Roach King thinks that looking there under those circumstances was cheating, then (s)he has a problem.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

gds wrote:Too challenging maybe, as I can't see how to complete Yum 1N5E. Are you sure it is possible ?

I took your advice and restarted the hold, and I can't see how this room is possible either, now that it's been altered.

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
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bandit1200 wrote:
I warped to level 4 and played the new room which replaced the two roach queens, but the stairs took me back to level 1.

That's very odd. The stairs on level 4 take me to level 5. Is this a variation of the end stair bug ?

bandit1200 wrote:
I objected strongly to being called a cheat.

That reminds me, roach king, please remove reference to cheating in Yum 2N 3W.

Atch
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 81
Registered: 08-29-2003
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I downloaded the latest version of The Mad House on Sunday (28th March) and have now reached The Last Level where, as gds has pointed out, you are prevented from returning east from 1N, 2W and 1N, 3W because of the red gates in the previous rooms. Are these two rooms required? I have had a look at your so-called impossible room (1N, 3W) Tim and it is certainly going to take some doing if it is needed. Until then the hardest room has been The Last Level: 2W – it was quite a challenge controlling a mimic on required trapdoors with a brained snake breathing down your neck!

Up until The Last Level I have encountered only one problem, in YUM!!: 1S, 3W, where you also cannot exit, again already pointed out by gds, I had to use the stairs in 2S to leave the level when completed.

YUM!!: 1N, 5E gave me no problems and the stairs from Level 4 to Level 5 worked perfectly.

All in all this is an excellent hold and I look forward to playing the finished version when it comes available.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

and the stairs from Level 4 to Level 5 worked perfectly

Er, a rather embarrassed apology from me for the stairs thing. It was ok. I'm blaming it on excess alcohol and not going to explain what I did, though I suspect someone might be able to put two and two together. Anyways, I finished level 4 and have also been stuck in the two north-west rooms in level 5.

You're quite right Atch, controlling the mimic with the serpent breathing down your neck is a challenge. So much so that I've given up in frustration for tonight. Levels 4 and 5 have been fun though, overall.

Atch
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 81
Registered: 08-29-2003
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I have just completed The Last Level and been invited to exit however I can’t due to the red gate in 1N, 2W – very frustrating.

The ‘impossible’ room is far from impossible and had you not made it not- required then I would have suspected you of applying a bit of psychology on us here Tim – if we think something is impossible then that is how we view it. In fact I found it considerably easier than 2W – now if you had said that that was impossible!

Just to reiterate Tim you need to fix the exits on:

1) YUM!!: 1S, 3W

2) The Final Level: 1N, 1W – adding a mimic would suffice.

3) The Final Level: 1N, 2W – you could fix this with mimics but an orb and gate would be my preference.

So unless you have anything else hidden – I see an additional blue gate in the exit room – then I would say that The Mad House was then ready for the Holds Forum Tim – well done!

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

Atch wrote:
YUM!!: 1N, 5E gave me no problems.

Really ?

Can you give me hint on how you did it. I can't see how it is possible to cope with so many brained wraithwings and no protection.

Atch
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 81
Registered: 08-29-2003
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gds wroteconcerning YUM!!: 1N, 5E:

Can you give me hint on how you did it. I can't see how it is possible to cope with so many brained wraithwings and no protection.

I’ve had a look at the victory demo for 1N, 5E, gds (4:01min, 485 moves) and found the following: It all seemed very straightforward; were you playing something different, you say that you had no protection?

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
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That's odd. In the version I had, there were no walls at all in 1N 5E. I have now redownloaded the hold and sure enough it was an update. 1N 5E is now the same as it was in the first version.

Roach king must have had noticed the problem and uploaded a new version but didn't mention it.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

gds wrote:
That's odd. In the version I had, there were no walls at all in 1N 5E. I have now redownloaded the hold and sure enough it was an update. 1N 5E is now the same as it was in the first version.

Roach king must have had noticed the problem and uploaded a new version but didn't mention it.

Oh, *&%*, so he did. I suppose i'd better start again. Every time I play this, it's a different game.

joker5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 607
Registered: 11-25-2003
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This is a wonderful hold, King. My only major beef is the lack of save points, and that's easily fixed. You MIGHT want to tone down YUM 1s1e just a teense, but besides that it's all good.

~joker5

____________________________
Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

joker5 wrote:
This is a wonderful hold, King. My only major beef is the lack of save points, and that's easily fixed. You MIGHT want to tone down YUM 1s1e just a teense, but besides that it's all good.

~joker5

I thought 1S1E was easy, but tiring, but yeah, this hold keeps getting better.

Atch
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 81
Registered: 08-29-2003
IP: Logged

Are we really talking about OK….: 4N, 2W?

If so then this is a very easy room and I’ll give you one small hint:

While we are on the subject of The Mad House, what has happened to Roach King? I hope that he has not abandoned it for it only needs a little tweaking to become a fine addition to the Holds Forum.

Roach King
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 19
Registered: 02-09-2004
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Atch wrote:
While we are on the subject of The Mad House, what has happened to Roach King? I hope that he has not abandoned it for it only needs a little tweaking to become a fine addition to the Holds Forum.

No, I did not abandon this game, but rather it abandonded me. See, my computer was really screwed up, so, using the NORTON ANTI VIRUS SYSTEM(noting that it said it was COMPLETELY reversable), I restored my computer back a ways, and after everything was said and done, I reset the computer, as it instructed. When I turned it back on, i realised that my whole DROD:AE was deleted . the only drod remains were in the form of the older version on level 15 where i had switched to AE. I haven't been replying lately because i was attempting to re-obtain those files, and have failed thus far. With that said, and the fact that you can't beat The Last Level because of the door problem (I actuall had that problem fixed, too, but didn't export it here), I'm afraid that this is as far as this hold is going to go .

So, any newcomers to this game can still play, but understand that you CANNOT BEAT IT!!!

SRY...

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gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

I'm very sorry to hear about your computer and very sorry to hear about the loss of the hold.

It may be against their policy but maybe one of the Drod developpers can modify the permissions on the hold to anyone edit and give you the new version.

The hold was so near to be ready for the hold forum.

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Roach King wrote:
No, I did not abandon this game, but rather it abandonded me. See, my computer was really screwed up, so, using the NORTON ANTI VIRUS SYSTEM(noting that it said it was COMPLETELY reversable), I restored my computer back a ways, and after everything was said and done, I reset the computer, as it instructed. When I turned it back on, i realised that my whole DROD:AE was deleted . the only drod remains were in the form of the older version on level 15 where i had switched to AE. I haven't been replying lately because i was attempting to re-obtain those files, and have failed thus far. With that said, and the fact that you can't beat The Last Level because of the door problem (I actuall had that problem fixed, too, but didn't export it here), I'm afraid that this is as far as this hold is going to go .

It is not guaranteed to work, but did you try the UnErase Wizard? It may be able to recover the deleted .dat files from the DROD directory.

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Resident Medic/Mycologist