shanka108
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 31
Registered: 05-31-2003
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in my humble opinion it seems everyone is trying to make new holds as difficult as possible which is fine for the hard core drod afficianado. I play for relaxation and see nothing relaxing playing the same room for a week and getting nowhere.
i made a one room hold that my brother solved in 10 mins. I am sure the zealots would be thoroughly appalled at the lack of challenge but it was fun for me.
how about some simpler holds for the less dedicated drod
enthusiast????, (or more senile player in my case).

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
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shanka108 wrote:
how about some simpler holds for the less dedicated drod
enthusiast????,

I like the easier holds better too. I think it is harder to make easy rooms that are interesting, than it is to just make difficult rooms.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
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Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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There are certainly holds out there which are not as hard as can be, Shanka. If you go to the Holds page (now nicely formatted on the main page by going to Downloads, then Holds: http://www.drod.net/forum/holds.php ), you can see all the completed holds with their difficulties and fun factors listed, as voted on by the forum. The Killing Jar, for example, is a good hold that was voted to be less difficult than Dugan's.

Unfortunately, these difficulties are based on the entirety of Dugan's, which also includes the final levels of that hold. Once most of us get through those final levels, it's sometimes tough to remember what the easy puzzles were like. A lot of us are very familiar with brains. If you are used to them, those puzzles won't be very hard. Otherwise, they can probably seem nearly impossible. Another thing is that, of course, most of us take our inspiration from Dugan's when building our holds. It's always easier to expand upon an idea, thus usually making it harder, than to move parallel to it, keeping the same difficulty, but still being unique.

I agree with Erik that I am more entertained by an interesting room that is not extremely hard. I also agree that it is very difficult to make those kinds of rooms. Most of the holds you'll see are going to be easy "newbie" holds or tough "veteran" holds, with a few in-between. In general I am starting to have a short attention span with DROD as well...if I can't beat a room, or at least see exactly what I need to do, in 5 minutes or so, I'm moving on. I probably wouldn't even have the patience to play through my own hold right now, if I didn't already know how to beat each room.

When DROD 1.7 comes out, in a few months (hopefully), things will probably get much better. There will be so many new items to play with that hopefully the puzzles won't be so hard, because there will be so many ideas that haven't been seen before. After a time, the user-made puzzles will get harder and harder as people try to come up with something new.

Anyway, I'm rambling now. There's my thoughts on the subject.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

squeekie
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 140
Registered: 06-03-2003
IP: Logged

I agree with Oneiromancer. After finishing Drod I try to go back and replay a level and if I am not totally in tune I will not continue. The same goes with too tough holds. I don't know why, because I love the game. I sometimes wonder how I had the patience to finish it to completion.

____________________________
"Don't accept that what's happening
is just a case of others suffering
or you'll find that you're joining in on the turning away."

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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Oneiromancer wrote:In general I am starting to have a short attention span with DROD as well...if I can't beat a room, or at least see exactly what I need to do, in 5 minutes or so, I'm moving on. I probably wouldn't even have the patience to play through my own hold right now, if I didn't already know how to beat each room.

I should mention that one of the most recent holds, The Fool's Errand, is kind of an exception to that comment above. I did spend a good deal of time trying to figure out the "trick" to the hold. Once I figured it out, then that comment started to apply and my attention span got the best of me on those rooms which I didn't want to take the time to fight with. But even though it was really frustrating trying to figure out the initial "trick", it was very rewarding to finally do so. That's another benefit to hard dungeons...you really feel a sense of accomplishment when you beat them. And after a time, if you're like me, you don't feel like you're a lesser person for not being able to solve them...you just feel that you could solve them, if you wanted to spend the time. This is also known as "rationalization".

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Nillo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 548
Registered: 01-04-2004
IP: Logged

I have'nt played the whole Dugan's Dungeon, so my hold might be entirely different from others. And I only continue work on my hold when I have an idea, which is'nt so often.

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

Kniggit
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 01-15-2004
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I'm working on a hold right now that is an experiment in alternative puzzle types. It's using the standard DROD pieces, but trying to created un-DROD-ish puzzles. Right now it's about 50/50 new/old puzzle types... I will either phaze out the old ones, or I just might leave them in to counterbalance the new...

But after that, I want to work on an easy hold...

NoahT
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1133
Registered: 06-17-2003
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My hold, "Nanfro Budkin's First Dungeon," is supposed to start out easy. The first few levels shouldn't take newbies too long to beat. I really should get back to working on my hold.

-Noah

____________________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

My stuff:

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
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Actually, the holds I prefer above all are the ones that are amazingly hard (so long as they're not tedious).

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Nillo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 548
Registered: 01-04-2004
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For me, it does'nt matter if holds are easy or hard, as long as they are fun and original.

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

Feyd-Rautha
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 12
Registered: 03-10-2004
IP: Logged

First thing, Hi to all

My first post on this forum.
Can't believe that there are so many people that love DROD like me. However, back IT.

I've still not completed the 25 levels of DROD.
A main pro of this game is that the diffcult goes from "even my 80 old granny can solve this blind-folded" to "If you mistake one single move of the 1323 needed, you must restart"

I enjoy levels that can be solved in two ore more diffcult modes.

I totally agree that it's super easy to make unbeliaveable hard levels rather than mid-difficult and still intersting ones.


P.s.
I'm Italian, in case you haven't noticed my bad english.

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Welcome, Feyd-Rautha!

Many of the rooms in Dugan's Dungeon were much harder in their first version, and then I softened them up. Lots of people complain now about it being a difficult game, but I think I was quite merciful. Lucas, on the other hand, with his level 13 maze... well, enough has been said about that.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)