halyavin
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So the svn server seems to be settled. I am sending passwords to all peoples registered in the first post.

halyavin
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If your password is not working, you want to change the nickname or I forget someone, send me PM or post about the problem here.

You can change your password on the "Change password" tab at [url=https://opensvn.csie.org https://opensvn.csie.org . Project name is "drodflash".

Link to bug tracker: [url=https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/drodflash https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/drodflash .

Snacko
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I contacted mrimer asking about how much of the intellectual property we're allowed to use, but I haven't gotten a response yet, but I'm fairly sure they're fine with it given our mention in the Illumination.

Well, our next order of business should be to get a list of elements we can use, I'd like to get this set in stone as soon as possible so we can start building. I'm not sure how close the engine is to being in full working order (it is unresponsive when I press start on the test), but this is obviously the developers' top priority after we get down exactly what we're including in the engine. Note that things like monsters, doors, arrows etc take priority over things like undo.

____________________________
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RoboBob3000
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Snacko wrote:
I contacted mrimer asking about how much of the intellectual property we're allowed to use, but I haven't gotten a response yet, but I'm fairly sure they're fine with it given our mention in the Illumination.

Be careful with that leap of logic. I was the one who made the topic pick, not Mike. And Patrick assembled the Illumination. Mike just posted it.

You're probably okay, I'd just suggest waiting for actual word from a dev first.

____________________________
http://beepsandbloops.wordpress.com/

NiroZ
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Blerg, don't worry about the graphics. Use ascii or something in the meantime. And focus on one monster at a time, starting with the roach.

halyavin
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NiroZ wrote:
Blerg, don't worry about the graphics. Use ascii or something in the meantime. And focus on one monster at a time, starting with the roach.

Actually, starting with Beethro - there are some tricky rules which determine when he can move, when he can't and when he dies immediately.

brian_s
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File: DrodLab.c (38.4 KB)
Downloaded 41 times.
License: Public Domain

I still have some source code from a project I started when I was trying to make a DROD AI. I got as far as including Beethro, force arrows, orthosquares, hot tiles, roaches, roach queens, and evil eyes.

The code is all in C, but it is a bit messy and the queens do not spawn exactly the same as in DROD. The attached file has the code for the engine I had built (the interface and graphics handling are not in this file). I hope this helps.

kyevan
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For graphics, weren't the AE graphics freely usable?

Snacko
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Here's mrimer's PM regarding my questions:

Q: Are we allowed to do this?

A: Sure, Caravel allows DROD clones as long as you name your project something different than "DROD" or one of the other game titles that have are being used by Caravel. Calling it something like "Flash DROD" even should be fine. Including a mention back to the original DROD or Caravel pages somewhere might be nice, but you don't have to say the project is made by Caravel or anything.

Q: Am I allowed to lend my voice, if possible?

A: Sure! That would be a nice touch.

Q: Are we allowed to use any of your tutorials? Of course we'll need to make our own to some point (we aren't including all the elements), but some of the TCB ones are about certain elements.

A: If you mean copying room layouts or texts from the tutorial rooms, then I'd have to sign off on the specific parts you want to use, but I have an open mind about giving permission for that. Just ask when you have some specific content in mind.

Q: Can we link to this site without your permission?

A: Yes, always.

Q: Are we allowed to make references to anything concerning The Eighth such as the history of some of the elements, any of the goings on in the main storyline, etc.?

A: Yes.

Q: Are we allowed to use any of the "real" game's code?

A: Yes, you may, as long as you adhere to the Mozilla Public License that DROD's code uses. You may read about it here:

http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/

Q: Can we have any support from the Caravel staff?

A: You may solicit help from people on the Caravel team, but I myself am really busy with all these various projects going on right now and can't commit to anything.

... (see below)

Mike

I also asked about payment, but let's just say it isn't likely that we'll receive money directly from Caravel, I'm personally fine with that, but note that anyone involved with the project will only get money from things like ad revenue.

____________________________
Director of the Department of Orderly Disruptions

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[Last edited by mrimer at 08-06-2008 04:32 AM : fixed formatting]

kyevan
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Has anyone considered what version of Flash to target? The natural inclination is the newest, with all the fancy features and such.

BUT...

If you target Flash 7, not only do we get a no-download DROD introduction, but we also get a DRODish game playable on the Wii. Sure, controls might be weird, but changing the control scheme is a lot easier than writing a second Flash DRODlike!

I don't actually know ActionScript*, but I'm willing to learn, or help out in whatever other way I can.

*: I'm somewhat competent in Java and Ruby, used to be in Scheme and Python (and would be again if I had to be and had access to a reference manual while getting back into the swing of it )

Rheb
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I thought I'd post here too. I have no programing or flash skills whatsoever, but I'd like to help designing levels and play testing.

(Just so you know, I'll be gone on vacation for a week now, and probably I will not have any access to Internet.)

____________________________
Voligner is my very own DROD-like game. Please check it out!

NiroZ
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To be honest, DROD doesn't seem like the best game to play on a wii.

halyavin
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kyevan wrote:
If you target Flash 7, not only do we get a no-download DROD introduction, but we also get a DRODish game playable on the Wii. Sure, controls might be weird, but changing the control scheme is a lot easier than writing a second Flash DRODlike!

Sorry, I am using Action Script 3.0 which requires Flash 9 and I think it is too hard to write such large project using Action Script 2.0.

I don't actually know ActionScript*, but I'm willing to learn, or help out in whatever other way I can.

*: I'm somewhat competent in Java and Ruby, used to be in Scheme and Python (and would be again if I had to be and had access to a reference manual while getting back into the swing of it )

The help I am currently needed - creating (using AE graphics as starting point where possible) tiles for game elements and corresponding *Style classes (in FlashDROD/org/drod/graphics/styles). Others *Style classes can be used as template. For those, who are familiar with Paint.NET (and a little familiar with C#) I can share some usefull effects created by Codelab plugin. Are someone interested?

coppro
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I avoid Flash like the plague for a number of reasons, but I would strongly recommend using the existing .tim mechanism, if possible. You would need the list of tiles from the DROD source (DROD/TileConstants.h), but it would make it compatible with existing DROD styles.

halyavin
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coppro wrote:
I avoid Flash like the plague for a number of reasons, but I would strongly recommend using the existing .tim mechanism, if possible. You would need the list of tiles from the DROD source (DROD/TileConstants.h), but it would make it compatible with existing DROD styles.

We use 14x14 sprites instead of 22x22 sprites in existing DROD styles. So compatibility is already broken.

kyevan
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coppro wrote:
I avoid Flash like the plague for a number of reasons, but I would strongly recommend using the existing .tim mechanism, if possible. You would need the list of tiles from the DROD source (DROD/TileConstants.h), but it would make it compatible with existing DROD styles.

You still couldn't USE them. That would require redistributing the styles (as part of the flash file), which is a no-no.

Syntax
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kyevan wrote:

coppro wrote:
I avoid Flash like the plague for a number of reasons, but I would strongly recommend using the existing .tim mechanism, if possible. You would need the list of tiles from the DROD source (DROD/TileConstants.h), but it would make it compatible with existing DROD styles.

You still couldn't USE them. That would require redistributing the styles (as part of the flash file), which is a no-no.

I'm genuinely intrigued... why is it a no-no? Is embedding graphics in a flash app not possible?

Briareos
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kyevan wrote:
You still couldn't USE them. That would require redistributing the styles (as part of the flash file), which is a no-no.

Only for the built-in styles of JtRH and TCB, but not user-created or AE styles.

The constants defined in TileConstants.h file are MPL'd, so they can be used as well.

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

kyevan
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Syntax wrote:
I'm genuinely intrigued... why is it a no-no? Is embedding graphics in a flash app not possible?

No, legal reasons. Caravel would get a little annoyed if we started redistributing their graphics. We COULD use user-created styles, but really, what's the point? You would have to recompile the thing to change the styles anyway, so you might as well do it in a more flash-like way, likely improving performance.

Besides, I think this is intended as more of a demo - once people get hooked, you direct them to the download for the normal DROD version anyway

Snacko
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Mrimer told me he was willing to be pretty generous with giving permission to use Caravel resources, if you want to use licensed graphics, it couldn't hurt to ask, after all, we're doing this to expand the community.

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hyphz
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I would like to help out with this if I can. I am still learning ActionScript but have quite a lot of general programming experience.

Snacko
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Can we get scrolls working? This is all I need to know to start building tutorials for what we have so far.

____________________________
Director of the Department of Orderly Disruptions

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[Last edited by Snacko at 08-11-2008 02:50 AM]

halyavin
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Definitely. I think that we will implement all DROD 2.0 elements and some DROD 3.0 ones (platforms, mirrors, citizens, big rock golems and builders seem the most disturbing). And, of course, scripting is hard to implement too.
PS The room should be in upper-left corner for my hold convertation program.

AtkinsSJ
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I'd say that scripting is probably a big no-no. Even an editor is probably something to do near the end, if ever.

Someone Else
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No, don't do an editor. If they want an editor, they can get the game here.

kyevan
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Scripting can be done the way the 'Neather was scripted if we need it
(The 'Neather is part of the program code.)

hyphz
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One thing I should mention that I haven't seen addressed yet:

Games on Kongregate make money (advertising revenue). I suggest that we know in advance what will be done with this money to prevent huge amounts of drama later on.

Edit: Can whoever did the hold importing please make it align with chaco's template, so that it grabs the room data from the centre of the room, not the top left?

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[Last edited by hyphz at 08-12-2008 01:46 AM]

Someone Else
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I'm willing to be a tester.

halyavin
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hyphz wrote:
Edit: Can whoever did the hold importing please make it align with chaco's template, so that it grabs the room data from the centre of the room, not the top left?

I made the program more flexible:

java -jar HoldTrans.jar hhh.hold 28 24 5 4 hhh.xml

for hold with rooms in the center,

java -jar HoldTrans.jar hhh.hold 28 24 0 0 hhh.xml

for hold with rooms in the top left corner.
PS You have to manually delete <?xml...?> tag after that, or Flash compiler will not understand xml file otherwise.

kyevan
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halyavin wrote:
And, of course, scripting is hard to implement too.

Perhaps the best way to handle scripting (since it's really rather useful for tutorials, especially, and the target for this project seems to be people who DON'T play DROD already) is to have some way to run custom actionscript for characters. Idealy, tied to the hold instead of the core, so it's easier to swap out, but doing it in the core, as a separate monster (like the 'Neather in Caravel's engine) would work as well.