Sokko
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File: bta.taf (18.2 KB)
Downloaded 176 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

The BTA Demo is now available! Save the attached file to a convenient spot on your hard drive, and figure out which operating system you're running. If you're a Windows user, click on the first link below to download the ADRIFT Runner and save that somewhere else convenient. It's a ZIP file, so you need to know how to deal with those. Unzip it to a folder of your choice. Then, double-click "run400.exe", choose Adventure > Open Adventure, and open the adventure file (bta.taf). If you use a Linux-based operating system, click the second link below, which is a GZ file that contains the SCARE interpreter. No guarantees or instructions available here, I don't have a Linux machine to test it on, but I'm confident you'll be able to work it out.

Windows: Here
Linux: Here

Once you've played through it, post your feedback here!

IMPORTANT: I highly recommend that you turn on Verbose, because you'll miss over half the stuff in the game with it off, including room exits and many items. To do this in ADRIFT, click Options, then check "Verbose".



<The original text of this post follows>

Beethro's Text Adventure is a game I've been thinking of creating for a while. If you're unfamiliar with text adventure games such as Zork, it's when there's no graphics at all; everything you see is represented using text, novel-style, and you type in commands (such as take the sword) to perform actions. It's turn-based, like DROD; nothing happens until you make a move. A previous stumbling block in all my unfinished games has been drawing graphics; as text adventures don't require graphics, I figure I've pretty much obliterated my biggest creative roadblock.

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In case you're wondering, this will be based in part on the now-pretty-much-dead "Story Construction" thread, and in part on all the other information we've accumulated concerning the world of the Eighth. If you have an idea you'd like to contribute, or just want to express your feelings on the project, please do post here.

This will probably go very slowly. I have, as you probably know, a real life, which tends to take up much of the time I would otherwise have available for working on this. I do have two maps already drawn up, and I hope to have the basic framework for the entire game on paper by the end of next week. Once that's done, I need to transfer what's on the paper to my computer, add descriptions, add items, characters, and puzzles to go with them, and hopefully once that's done we'll have a game. Utilize this "dead time" to post your ideas; the crazier, the better!

[Edited by Sokko on 03-10-2004 at 10:07 PM GMT]

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ErikH2000
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Sokko wrote:
Beethro's Text Adventure (tentative title, let me know if you come up with something better; it's not that hard) is a game I've been thinking of creating for a while.

Fantastic! I love those games.

P.S. If someone (preferably Erik, but I know he's busy) could come up with a simple character list that shows every character Beethro knows as well as their relationship to him, that would be simply spiffing.

I can't show you every character Beethro knows, because there are a lot of them and they haven't all been invented yet. Here are the ones we know about...

Bombus Gadhan - Hallholder of the Smitemasters Guild. See Ch.1 Beethro the Delver.
Voniffa Budkin - Beethro's older sister, a stuffy matriarch. See Ch.2 BtD.
Halph Budkin - Beethro's nephew (Voniffa's son), a teenager that is agreeable and never too focused on any one thing. He appears in the end sequence of Dugan's Dungeon and is mentioned in Ch.2 BtD.
Gribbles Prutkin - A professional acquaintance that Beethro respects, although they are not good friends. Gribbles speaks carefully and is distantly polite. He is not known to be dishonest. Ch.1 and 3 BtD.
Mobley Inufgot - Dungeon architect that seems to not be real tight with DAA. Beethro meets him for the first time in Ch.3 BtD.
King Dugan the Third (of Three) - Beethro and Dugan's families have a long association spanning generations. Basically, agreements are made for Budkins to clean up Dugan's dungeon, but neither really likes the other. The King's mood flies to extremes from moment to moment. Does not have a mind for evil schemes, but likes to bully people around when he can manage it. The King appears in Story of Beethro and Beethro receives a letter from him in Ch.2 BtD.

You can create other characters based on what you know. For example, Beethro has a ton of nephews and neices. So many, that he can barely remember them all. Beethro has a bunch of buddies that are also dungeon exterminators. There are various royalty figures that cause trouble for Beethro, and he carries a big chip on his shoulder for anyone born into the good life. The Architects are meant to be quite secretive, but they are another group to play with. You can think of them like some sort of intellectual mafia.

I'll try to help. You can run by any ideas you want, and I'll tell you if it fits the Eighth world.

-Erik


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zex20913
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Just a quick question: How many siblings does Beethro have? Or does Voniffa belong to the Guiness book of World Records, for most children?

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Scott
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Does Beethro have a wife? If so that would be a way to up the number of cousins without having to have an excessive number of siblings.

However if he has 5 siblings, his mother had 6 children, and each of of those also had 6 children thats already 30.

ErikH2000
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He's got five to eight siblings, depending on how you count. No wife--he's too crusty for that.

-Erik

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trick
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I love these things!

pedantic note: it's called interactive fiction, not text adventure... (i call them text adventures myself, tho)

Sokko
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Thanks for that info! I've drawn out maps for the bottom floor of Dugan's castle, the higher area of the kingdom, and the Dark Forest (this is the forest Beethro wanders into in the beginning of the Story Construction). All that's left is to draw up a (small) map for the topmost bit of Dugan's Dungeon (which doesn't feature too heavily in this game) and then I can start putting together a demo. The Forest doesn't actually feature in the first plot point, but I did it anyway because it was easy. Easy to draw, that is; navigating it is another matter entirely.

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DiMono
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I'd like to declare my order of this game. Send me my pillow!

Anyway, once you have the text-only game working, which I look forward to playing, it might be worth your time to dig up Erik the Unready from online. It's a text based game, but there are static images displayed in part of the screen depending on where you are. It's nothing like Starcraft, but it might serve to add another dimension to the game.

Two other things: I'm a writer, so if you'd like me to lend my eye to your plot in some capacity just let me know. Same for any text you have written. And would this be a good thread to put in the Development forum?


Edit: Title idea: Beethro's Eighth Adventure

[Edited by DiMono on 01-23-2004 at 04:21 PM GMT]

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krammer
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Please don't take this as criticism, but...

Do you have to use ADRIFT? I know it's easy, but I have seen so many appalling ADRIFT games that I feel very uneasy, and it also has limited design possibilities compared to other systems. If you could see your way to using TADS or Inform then you may be able to do far more. Plus if you use ADRIFT none of the Linux crew will be able to play your game, while the others are cross platform.
Of course, you may not want the hassle of using a (possibly new) programming language, but that is really the only disadvantage for so many benefits.

Anyway, aside from that, I strongly approve of the idea - I really like IF games, and would love to see anything you come up with.

I can visualise Level 13 now - "You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike..."

Oh yeah - and can I have a pillow too?

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ErikH2000
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krammer wrote:
Do you have to use ADRIFT? I know it's easy, but I have seen so many appalling ADRIFT games that I feel very uneasy, and it also has limited design possibilities compared to other systems.

After hearing about Sokko's intention to use ADRIFT, I went and checked it out a bit. I can see why someone would choose to use it. The interface looks much easier than writing the game with a programming language. Not an expert on IF authoring, but I had to admire the simplicity of how things are organized. Personally, since most DROD spinoff projects (or game projects in general) never get completed, I would want Sokko to use whatever helps him get the game finished easily. I'm a programmer, but if I wanted to throw an IF game together in a hurry, I'd probably look for something like ADRIFT.

If you could see your way to using TADS or Inform then you may be able to do far more. Plus if you use ADRIFT none of the Linux crew will be able to play your game, while the others are cross platform.

Good point. I believe it is also possible to play TADS and Inform games with a Java plugin. So a game authored in one of these formats could be hosted from DROD.net and played without installing anything.

-Erik

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Avon
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ErikH2000 wrote:

If you could see your way to using TADS or Inform then you may be able to do far more. Plus if you use ADRIFT none of the Linux crew will be able to play your game, while the others are cross platform.

Good point. I believe it is also possible to play TADS and Inform games with a Java plugin. So a game authored in one of these formats could be hosted from DROD.net and played without installing anything.

There is an ADRIFT interpreter called SCARE that runs under Linux. Also, if Sokko doesn't mind and there is a demand for it, I'd be happy to convert this game to TADS or Inform when it is completed.

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krammer
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This is where I start feeling guilty for bringing this all up in the first place...

Anyway, I suppose it's not really my place to judge until we get a look at it, when I may well eat my words and decide it's great. Didn't realise there were alternative ADRIFT interpreters, I really ought to check my facts in future. Sorry if I caused any offence, it was not intended.

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Sokko
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I always had a grudge against ADRIFT because you actually need to download a separate interpreter to run it; there's no "Compile to Stand-alone EXE" functionality. I just wasn't aware that those other alternatives even existed. If they're not too programming-intensive, I might take a look at them, if only because I haven't started the actual programming part of the project. Please hold while I try that extension, er, I mean search on Google.

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Sokko
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Looks like I'll be sticking with ADRIFT (or SCARE, depending on your platform); both TADS and Inform require interpreters to be downloaded. Why is this such a mainstay of IF design programs? Not many people I know would want to bother downloading a separate program just to be able to run my game. It seems incredibly stupid that the interpreter can't just be built into the compiled game, and never mind if you need to compile it more than once for different systems.

Incidentally, ADRIFT's ease of use is precisely the reason why there are so many horrible games for it floating around; the only requirement for creating an IF game with ADRIFT is good writing sense, and unfortunately it's an entirely optional requirement. I would definitely pick ADRIFT over other creation systems because it allows you to be incredibly flexible without ever touching a bit of code; but you can be sure I'll touch whatever code I need to to get it the way I want.

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ErikH2000
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Sokko wrote:
Looks like I'll be sticking with ADRIFT (or SCARE, depending on your platform);

Cool, Sokko. Do it whichever way you think is best--I just want to see what you come up with.

both TADS and Inform require interpreters to be downloaded. Why is this such a mainstay of IF design programs?

Good question. IF has a cult culture that's been around for several years and has developed more expectations than other genres. The typical fan tends to download many titles and keep up on release announcements from that Usenet board I forgot the name of. Advantages of distributing data files w/o a compiled executable:
- Smaller distribution size. Important for people with slow or pay-per-use connections. This factor comes more into play with IF because there are so many games to download.
- Works on many different platforms without multiple downloads. You know, so you can play it on your Mac, your Palm device, as an online web game, etc.
- For the more popular formats there is more than one choice of a player software, and you can set up preferences like color schemes and font. You can see how a dedicated IF gamer might feel more comfortable using his own adjusted gaming environment instead of being forced to use the UI compiled into the game.

Incidentally, ADRIFT's ease of use is precisely the reason why there are so many horrible games for it floating around;

That makes sense. It looks like it allows for all the standard types of elements you find in IF games, and a decent game could be made from it. I'm tempted to download it and make my own game, but I better stick to the other projects I've begun.

-Erik

____________________________
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Sokko
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"You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike..."

The game that inspired me to make this one (and from which the tentative title is a shameless rip-off) put quite a funny spin on this cliche phrase with the following room description:

"You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike.

Luckily, the passages bear clear signage marking their destinations. To the north is..."




EDIT: Yeah, this might be a good thread for the Development board, but I figure it should stay here. The Development board usually has a lot more technical details and discussion than I'd ever have here. I'd say not as many people look at it, but I know that's not true.

[Edited by Sokko on 01-24-2004 at 09:51 PM GMT]

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The_Red_Hawk
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Sokko wrote:
"You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike.

Luckily, the passages bear clear signage marking their destinations. To the north is..."

I always play games like this with my friends, only verbally. But it usually takes place on distant planets.

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

DiMono
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I have no idea what the odds of this happening are, but what if you contacted someone at Sierra OnLine and told them what you're up to, and asked for a copy of their command interpreter? It compiles to an exe, and if you can get it for free then maybe you can also extend the code. Of course, now that all Sierra games are point-and-click based, they're far more likely to say yes than they would have been in the early '90s.

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Sokko
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Ooooohhh crap. I've entered half the rooms on my map into ADRIFT, descriptions and all, and I hit the Save button so I'll be okay in case of random power loss and/or stupidity. And this message pops up: "Sorry, the unregistered version cannot save games with more than 10 rooms!" WHAT?!?!? Unregistered? No one ever mentioned anything about registering! Frantic, I pop open the ADRIFT web page and look EVERYWHERE for any indication that the program needs to be registered... finally, after many minutes of fruitless searching, I find it: on the About page. "ADRIFT costs $17 to register." That's it. Just a single reference on the About page. Nothing elsewhere on the web site, nothing actually in the program telling you it's unregistered. Just this tiny little blurb on the About page that probably no one ever reads anyway.

My first thought is to sic a doberman on the guy who came up with this hidden registration. My second thought is "What the hell am I going to do with this project?". The only way to save it is to Export it as a module, and then only people who have the Generator can run it, and with full editing rights no less. I'm completely flabbergasted; I have absolutely no idea what to do next. Registration is out of the question; I'm broke, and my parents think I spend too much money on stuff anyway. The alternatives (TADS, Inform, and the like) are practically code-only, and I've grown attracted to ADRIFT's easy, user-friendly graphical interface. Downgrading to the (free) version 3.90 is also out of the question, because it lacks several necessary features. There's quite literally nothing I can do about this; it would appear I have no choice but to abandon the project entirely, but I don't give up that easily. One solution that comes to mind is for 17 of you to send me $1 each, or possibly for 34 of you to send me 50 cents each, but that's REALLY optimistic thinking. Unfortunately, it's all I can come up with right now, so consider the project put on hold until further notice.

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ErikH2000
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Sokko wrote:
There's quite literally nothing I can do about this; it would appear I have no choice but to abandon the project entirely, but I don't give up that easily. One solution that comes to mind is for 17 of you to send me $1 each, or possibly for 34 of you to send me 50 cents each, but that's REALLY optimistic thinking. Unfortunately, it's all I can come up with right now, so consider the project put on hold until further notice.

$17 shouldn't be a big obstacle. Sokko, I'll donate a registered copy of Adrift to the cause if you will put a document together showing how your adventure will work. I'd like to see a listing of rooms, characters, events, and puzzles. You don't need finished text for each thing--just enough to give me an idea that you have a solid plan that will allow you to complete the project. So maybe it's a document two or three pages long. Will you take me up on it?

Of course you may find some other way to continue, or decide you are not so motivated right now. No big deal.

-Erik

____________________________
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krammer
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Sokko, I may have the solution - try CAT. It's not very well known, but it is freeware, non-programming based and also allows you to compile the whole thing into a standalone package so others don't need the CAT runner.

Get it from http://www.richmond62.freeserve.co.uk/

Sorry I didn't mention it earlier, I only just remembered finding it. I think it's also far more lenient in terms of what you can add to it than ADRIFT. Anyway, just an idea.

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Mattcrampy
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Or you could go the morally bankrupt way and find a crack for it.

But then, if Erik is willing to donate a registered copy to expand the DROD mythos, I don't see why you should risk your immortal soul over an adventure game.

I have an Inform compiler, and I've seen a tool to compile games with Sierra's old CGI system. They may have reverse engineered the point and click system by now, I don't know.

Matt

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Sokko
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I already considered (and quickly swatted down) the idea of getting a crack; it's such an obscure program that no one's ever bothered to make a crack for it, which I guess is just as well.

Thanks a lot for pointing out CAT! Two concerns:

1. Will it run on things other than Windows when compiled? (don't know how crucial this is; how many of you run MacOS or Linux?)

2. Does it have a room limit, since a lot of stuff in it seems to have limits? (I hope not, the Dark Forest alone is 25 rooms)

I'll probably find these out for myself eventually, anyway. I'm downloading it as we speak and I'll check it out.


Erik, I would do that, but my development plans are usually too spontaneous to be drawn up in a document. Sure, I draw out maps of all the areas, but those are just the rooms. Once I have those down, the rest is pure touch-and-go. For instance, say I've put down a kitchen. Creative thought process:
Okay, what items would commonly be found in a kitchen? How about a pan, I'll put a pan in there. Okay, what kind of puzzle can I make that involves this pan? Well, I can tie it in with that rock over here and that coin over there, and use it to get rid of this guy over here to gain access to the shed. What's commonly found in a shed? Well, how about a rake, I'll stick a rake in there. How can I make the rake crucial to solving the next problem? Repeat ad infinitum, or until the game is finished.
The only things I plan are:
1) Things that, going directly from the information we have, MUST be in there
2) Things that, using logical deduction on that same information, SHOULD be in there
3) Half-formed vapor-like things floating around in my head that only coalesce into something solid when I get to the point where it's time to put them in, because the details depend on previously-placed objects

That being said, it should be evident that I'm very... ah, what's the word... oh forget it, you know what I'm trying to say.

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Sokko
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Haven't looked at it very much yet, but you can only export Windows-compatible executables with it. This might or might not leave out a significant crowd; as I said, I have no idea how many of you are using non-Windows operating systems.

There's a limit of 500 locations (rooms), which should be enough for any kind of game you can throw at it.

I'm still a bit hesitant on the non-Windows issue, but I'll start copying and pasting in the rooms anyway and we'll see what the response is.

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ErikH2000
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Sokko wrote:
Erik, I would do that, but my development plans are usually too spontaneous to be drawn up in a document. Sure, I draw out maps of all the areas, but those are just the rooms. Once I have those down, the rest is pure touch-and-go.

Fair enough. I guess try out that CAT thing and maybe my offer is moot. If you are still interested in Adrift, you could think about what you might send me that shows some planning in what your game will be like.

-Erik


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bandit1200
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I can visualise Level 13 now - "You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike..."

Wouldn't Level 9 be more appropriate?

krammer
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bandit1200 wrote:

I can visualise Level 13 now - "You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike..."

Wouldn't Level 9 be more appropriate?

Sorry bandit, don't get it... maybe I'm just being incredibly dense this evening. Level 9 has no real "maze" characteristics, as far as I remember.

EDIT: Sokko: just dug out my old copy of CAT again and found out you have a 200 object limit, which may be a little low - although I'm not sure whether you can fudge that in some way for objects that are just scenery. Of course, you could always split the game into smaller parts if it does get too big...

[Edited by krammer on 01-25-2004 at 07:31 PM GMT]

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bandit1200
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Level 9 Computing were a big name in text adventures and their "Colossal Adventure" from 1983 was an expanded version of the original Crowther and Woods "Adventure", which is where your maze of twisty passages originated.

Sokko
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Bah, I doubt I'll ever hit 200 objects. Remember, an object is only something you can interact with and/or carry around; useless scenery like beds, tables, stoves, etc. doesn't count and is merely included in the location description.

So, until further notice, this project has migrated to C.A.T. I'm still searching for a platform-independent interpreter, and I'll get back to you on that as soon as I can.

@Erik: Sorry I can't come up with anything definitive. If I have some spare time, I might throw together a Big List of Vague Ideas, and with that combined with the demo you should be able to make up your mind. Perhaps I'll also take some pictures of my maps.

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Mattcrampy
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Sokko wrote:
even Flaming Pits of Mothingness.

We're going to have to work out what the flaming pit of mothingness is at some point. Maybe it's the mole?

Matt

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