The_Red_Hawk
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A potion that lets Beethro swim without harm in tar (or the Flow). What do you think?

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Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Nillo
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What happens if Beethro's got a swimming potion and points his sword against the tar?

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The_Red_Hawk
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Nothing. He could still kill things, though.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

zex20913
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Hmm...no, I don't like this. Tar is too icky to be swum through.

That's not my real reason. The player expects the sword to kill the tar. If Beethro has a swimming potion, the tar would not be killed? And he no longer has to cut his way through it? No I say. No.

Plus, tar covering wall puzzles would become either trivial, or like a blind man trying to get through a hedge maze. Bad idea.

For the Flow though, if it gets in, I think it would be a good idea, but while Beethro is swimming his sword is sheathed. So he can swim with both hands.

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Mattcrampy
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Yeah, but sometimes the Flow is lava or toxic ooze. Who wants to swim in lava and/or toxic ooze?

The concept of the flow is that it's lethal to both Beethro and the monsters. If a designer wants to let people go through the Flow, they can just not put it in the room.

Of course, that's if it's in the game.

Matt

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agaricus5
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Of course, that's if it's in the game.

Ah ha!

Well spotted!

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The_Red_Hawk
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It could last for only perhaps 30 moves, within which Beethro would have to accomplish a certain task, making it a good timer. And I agree with the sword-sheathing.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

joker5
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This is a cool idea. Here are a few puzzle examples:

Beethro starts in the south of a certain room. The rest of the room is covered in dollops and blobs of tar(which has walls in it, by the way. I think Beethro should be able to swim over walls). Due to the tar mother being in the north, if Beethro had to cut his way through the monsters(or if he tried to wait for the tar to surround them) he would, quite simply, be stuck forever(assume the tar grows to be impassible). So Beethro has to find a way through the room WITHOUT BEING EATEN BY MONTSERS, and ducking into tar to avoid critters rather than killing them. This would be a tricky puzzle, as he would have to be able to plan a route to the mother within 30/60/whatever turns, and be able to use tar to your advantage as opposed to smiting it at every opportunity. Say when you get to the mother the potion wears off, beethro draws his sword and smites the mother, and now he has a horde of monsters(and a bunch of walls) between him and the way home. So now he has to clear out the room.

Another example: Tar over some yellow doors. Beethro is solving a door puzzle(more like a chamber puzzle, with each little chamber having a few orbs and doors) when suddenly, he finds... TAR???? So now he has to be able to open the right doors to have the tar grow enough so he can use the potion, get inside the tar, and get past, say, a wall under the tar at the end of the maze. After he kills the tar mother, he can step on a trapdoor and drop the walls of the maze to clean up the tar babies.

BTW, the first puzzle assumes that you can both go over walls and can't use your sword when you've drunk the potion(A reasonable assumption), you can go over walls(logical, I think. Tar is REALLY thick, so I think that the potion just makes Beethro, I dunno, more "tar-enterable", so he can enter and leave the tar without being squashed flat, or needing to breathe. The tar is really thick, so going over walls should be no problem. Beethro just swims up at an angle)

The second one assumes that you can go over walls when swimming in tar, but I can come up with puzzles for just about any combination of factors in this potion.

~joker5

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agaricus5
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joker5 wrote:
This is a cool idea. Here are a few puzzle examples:

Beethro starts in the south of a certain room. The rest of the room is covered in dollops and blobs of tar(which has walls in it, by the way. I think Beethro should be able to swim over walls). Due to the tar mother being in the north, if Beethro had to cut his way through the monsters(or if he tried to wait for the tar to surround them) he would, quite simply, be stuck forever(assume the tar grows to be impassible). So Beethro has to find a way through the room WITHOUT BEING EATEN BY MONTSERS, and ducking into tar to avoid critters rather than killing them. This would be a tricky puzzle, as he would have to be able to plan a route to the mother within 30/60/whatever turns, and be able to use tar to your advantage as opposed to smiting it at every opportunity. Say when you get to the mother the potion wears off, beethro draws his sword and smites the mother, and now he has a horde of monsters(and a bunch of walls) between him and the way home. So now he has to clear out the room.

It's interesting, but this puzzle example is not exactly all useful. It does help with "cutting tar too late" problems and impassable passages, but the rest of it is not actually that interesting unless the tar forms in such a way on a growth that Beethro would have been surrounded if not inside the tar mass.

The second one assumes that you can go over walls when swimming in tar, but I can come up with puzzles for just about any combination of factors in this potion.

???????



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The_Red_Hawk
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Swimming over walls when tar covers them might be a good idea.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
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But if you can swim over tar with walls, what would be the point of putting the potion in the room?

If it's a maze, it loses it's maziness, and if it's supposed to get through the tar, why put the walls?

It seems rather pointless.

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The_Red_Hawk
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Well, if the architect doesn't want someone to swim over walls, he simply doesn't put a swimming potion in the room.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

joker5
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Registered: 11-25-2003
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Losing the maziness wouldn't happen; If the architect wants to have a tarmaze and a swimming potion it's up to him/her to work it out. Anyway, there's an easy way around that: Expose a few walls! If enough walls are exposed then you can't swim over them. There's a solution to just about every trivial-solution-generating problem if you think for a few minutes

~joker5

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zex20913
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Well, in that case, why couldn't we just deal without the potion and instead of the tar over walls, put a crumbly wall, or even an empty space? Preferrably the crumbly wall, as I thought of an immediate counter example for the empty space.

This is one of the reasons DROD is great.

There's a solution to just about every trivial-solution-generating problem if you think for a few minutes

There's normally a counter example for every one of these.

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joker5
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Because with the potion the challenge is to find the right spot to start in, and that's cool. It's like learning to place mimics all over again

~joker5

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Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me