Dex Stewart
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File: Stalwart.bmp (17.4 KB)
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See attached image. Stalwart moves first.
He'll step in front of the eye, which will wake up and will instantly kill him. However, if you are under the effect of a speed potion, then the Stalwart will move in front of the eye, the eye will only wake up half a turn later and won't move when the next full turn comes, thus giving the Stalwart the chance to kill it.

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Dex Stewart wrote:
See attached image. Stalwart moves first.
He'll step in front of the eye, which will wake up and will instantly kill him. However, if you are under the effect of a speed potion, then the Stalwart will move in front of the eye, the eye will only wake up half a turn later and won't move when the next full turn comes, thus giving the Stalwart the chance to kill it.

Thanks for the report. Hmm...okay, I can imagine how this happens. I've fixed evil eyes in build 60 so that when they see a target, they will wake up immediately if the target isn't hasted, even if the player is. I'm considering clones to be hasted when the player is.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 03-01-2008 06:42 PM]

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
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It's with anything, I think. It's not a new bug - it's down to Speed Potion behavior. Stalwarts move first, so on any given full turn, they'll move before eyes. But Eyes require a half-turn's worth of sight in order to wake up.

Standard KDD rules say they move on the turn they wake up. Speed Potion rules say they can't move on a half-turn.

The only *easy* way to reconcile this, I think, is to allow Evil Eyes to move on the exact turn/half-turn they wake up on. This may break some demos however, and there's the potential for room breakage too... I don't have any details on that this early.

Anyways, nice job spotting it.

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5064
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TFMurphy wrote:
The only *easy* way to reconcile this, I think, is to allow Evil Eyes to move on the exact turn/half-turn they wake up on.

I didn't think that is the issue here. Rather, that the eye simply isn't waking up on the first turn it sees the stalwart when the player is hasted. I've fixed this so it doesn't take the eye two half-turns to wake up when it sees the stalwart. Hence, it will be able to move immediately to kill the stalwart, since the stalwart only moves on full turn steps.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 03-01-2008 06:49 PM]

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3118
Registered: 06-11-2007
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Well, I was more thinking that the whole "eye must see something for half a turn before it wakes up" as a more important constant. (Example: what happens if the player closes a door that blocks the eye's sight before the eye gets a full half-turn glimpse of the Stalwart? Is this consistent?)

On the flipside, a hasted Beethro that moves on full turns and waits on half turns *would* wake up an eye that would kill him on the correct turn. So I can certainly see *that* logic. (On the reverse side to *that*, a hasted Beethro that moves on full turns and waits on half turns would cause fuses he lights to start up faster than if he were simply unhasted... but meh - trying to follow that logic with everything gets a little sticky)

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5064
Registered: 02-04-2003
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TFMurphy wrote:
Well, I was more thinking that the whole "eye must see something for half a turn before it wakes up" as a more important constant. (Example: what happens if the player closes a door that blocks the eye's sight before the eye gets a full half-turn glimpse of the Stalwart? Is this consistent?)

Consider when a stalwart moves into an eye's line of sight and the player is not hasted. The eye immediately attacks the stalwart, even though the stalwart has technically not been waiting in front of it a full turn, but actually just moved there. We're going to keep it working just like that when the player is hasted.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3118
Registered: 06-11-2007
IP: Logged

Yes, I realise, I'm just wondering if it'll feel like an inconsistency compared to allowing a just woken eye to move on a half-turn. I fully agree with the end result of the entire turn+halfturn mechanic resulting in the same effect as when unhasted.

It just has the possibility of seeming a little strange that an eye could react differently to a half-turn glimpse of a stationary Stalwart compared to a half-turn glimpse of a stationary Decoy.

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5064
Registered: 02-04-2003
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TFMurphy wrote:
It just has the possibility of seeming a little strange that an eye could react differently to a half-turn glimpse of a stationary Stalwart compared to a half-turn glimpse of a stationary Decoy.

Oh, I think that stalwarts and decoys should affect evil eyes in the same way, and would consider this a bug that affected both of them.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3118
Registered: 06-11-2007
IP: Logged

Yes, I just noticed that Build 60 treats Decoys as non-hasted with regards to Evil Eyes (although they and Characters are treated as hasted with regards to sword hits). Hmmm. Make that a difference between stationary Clones and stationary Stalwarts then.

Eh, whichever way it goes, we'll cope. I'll just note it as a new exception then.

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5064
Registered: 02-04-2003
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TFMurphy wrote:
Hmmm. Make that a difference between stationary Clones and stationary Stalwarts then.

As you'd imagine, the rationale here is that Clones are treated specially because they do have the potential of moving during half-turns when the player is hasted, while other entities don't. It is quirky, but I figure giving the player that extra control with speed potions makes it more useful.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.