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joker5
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icon New hold: for the newbies (0)  
Ok, here's my first hold. I made this in an attemt to help out all the DROD newbies who just can't seem to solve Dugan's Dungeon.

I can't either but it's only because I'm lazy. If I spent enough time I could do it, and I won't get discouraged. Most newbies, however, will deem DROD a waste of time and leave.

This will introduce newbies to DROD tricks teqniques and hopefully get them hooked. I think I covered everything. Anyway, please rate and review. If I get enough positive feedback then I'll make one for 1.7 (assuming erikH doesn't decide that the editor is evil and we'd be spoinling 1.7 for ourselves if we got our grubby little paws on one.)

Please, people, tell me what you think.

Thank you all,
~joker5


[Edited by joker5 on 01-02-2004 at 01:08 AM GMT: New version of hold, brains are last now]

[Edited by joker5 on 01-03-2004 at 11:31 PM GMT: Reordered levels, each critter has its own level(Except for 'Neather)]

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12-26-2003 at 02:25 AM
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Skylancer64
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
Erm...
It's not up for download?
:?

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12-26-2003 at 01:49 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
Yes - you forgot to attach the file.

I think this would probably be a great help to new DROD players.

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The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
12-26-2003 at 02:27 PM
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joker5
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
ACK! Sorry, it must not have stuck through the edits! Thank you, though. It should be up now!

~joker5

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12-26-2003 at 02:56 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
The exit at the end of level 3 leads back to level 3.

Also, the scroll at the beginning of level 2 is wrong - queens can only lay 7 eggs at once.

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The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
12-26-2003 at 04:52 PM
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joker5
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
Thank you. Here's the new version. I'm making it editable by anyone this time.

How do you like it so far?

Is there anything else?

~joker5

[Edited by joker5 on 12-26-2003 at 04:59 PM GMT]

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12-26-2003 at 04:59 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
1. Why do you refer to evil eyes as "floating"?

2. If you talked about exits, pits, etc. in the first level, why didn't you talk about green doors?

3. There's only four levels so far, right?

4. You said that monsters cannot hide under tar. However, in holds made in early builds of the AE, it could be done (The Dungeon Research Dept. is an example)

Overall, this is a very good newbie-hold. I found it fun (even though I'm not a newbie.....)

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
12-26-2003 at 05:43 PM
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joker5
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
Oops! That was the old version. Ok, here's the new version that mentions all the elements that I could see in the editor.

1. Because they must float to some degree or else the bottom of them would pop open due to friction and the result would be eyeball pudding :sick

2. I did. Old version.

3. Nope, there's more.

4. I wondered about that, but I couldn't get it to work... maybe we'll be able to do that again in 1.7?

~joker5

P.S. Thanks for everything!

[Edited by joker5 on 12-26-2003 at 05:55 PM GMT]

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12-26-2003 at 05:54 PM
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Oneiromancer
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
The_Red_Hawk wrote:
4. You said that monsters cannot hide under tar. However, in holds made in early builds of the AE, it could be done (The Dungeon Research Dept. is an example).

I believe this was a bug. Thus, even if it could be done, it shouldn't have. And it doesn't work any more, so joker was correct. He doesn't need to make exceptions for beta builds...only the final product is important.

Game on,

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12-26-2003 at 06:51 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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joker5 wrote:
1. Because they must float to some degree or else the bottom of them would pop open due to friction and the result would be eyeball pudding :sick


In the pictures, evil eyes have a green slime on their bottom. Surely this would be enough?

3. Nope, there's more.


I went to the last room of level four and there was no exit.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
12-26-2003 at 06:55 PM
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joker5
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
The new version (above) does have an exit on level 4... at least from where I'm standing. And I went through the hold again, so there shouldn't be any problems.

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"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me
12-26-2003 at 07:01 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
OK, that's good. I looked in the editor and found all seven levels.

On level 5, the roach-and-brain room, remember that brains will not direct roaches over force arrows, scrolls, etc. So you should make a little passage off to the side with the scroll.

Where is the "review" rooms on levels 5 and 6?

The level 6 stair also leads to the end of level 6.

I think that's it for now.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
12-26-2003 at 07:11 PM
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joker5
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
I updated the download at the top of the page. Level 5 now has practice and review. Level 6 needs no review because by then I assume that people have figured out how to deal with stuff. I want them to take a step toward DROD mastery, not teach them how to deal with EVERY contingency. I think people would have mastered the basics of eyes and goblins and so on and so forth by then. Thank you, though.

Thank you for the feedback!

~joker5

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Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me
12-26-2003 at 07:30 PM
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Aris Katsaris
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
Can you *please* keep only *one* downloadable hold in this thread? Hopefully the most recent one? Can you please remove the obsolete ones?

It's quite annoying when I don't know which hold of all the ones you uploaded I should check out.

A) Download A.
B) Oops not that, download B instead
C) Nope, B was an old version, C is the one you should download.
D) Nevermind, download A again. I updated it.

Aargh.
12-26-2003 at 08:08 PM
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joker5
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Ok, sorry.

~joker5

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www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me
12-26-2003 at 08:11 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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On the seventh level, you say "...by golly, there's probably a spider there", those are Erik's words, and you probably shouldn't use them.

Also, why did you leave force arrows to so late? And why doesn't the seventh level also have wraithwings in its description?

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
12-27-2003 at 12:18 AM
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joker5
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Ack... didn't know that, unfortunately. Must be a good phrase. I've fixed it up. And as to why force arrows are last? Because they're really none too central, as opposed to, say, roaches, or goblins. Anyway, I'm not doing it in any real order, so it doesn't have to make sense. As long as the player finishes the thing up he'll be wise to the ways of just about everything.

And I just realized that I should have added a room for review early. I did now.

There we go.
~joker5

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www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me
12-27-2003 at 01:57 AM
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krammer
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
There is a slight bug with the game which unfortunately makes your hold not so great - if you enter a room by stepping onto a scroll, it doesn't show up. While that isn't a problem in itself, this could confuse newbies - they step on a scroll and nothing happens, what have they done wrong - when it's not their or your fault. I suggest making all scrolls at least two squares into the room.

Have you given this hold to a newbie? As I expect most of us here dwould, I sailed through this easily, but I did think some of the monsters had not enough introduction, particularly serpents and goblins. As level 7 is often where many people start to falter in Dugan's, I think maybe you should do more simple serpent rooms. Goblins too - there was only one intro room with a single goblin and no obstacles, which can easily be solved by pushing him straight into the wall. Perhaps some hints for using two goblins, or trapping snakes so they're prepared for levels 18 and 23?

Of course, perhaps the best criticism would come from people who are having difficulties - most of us old hands find it difficult to remember what it was like when we first played DROD.


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12-27-2003 at 11:37 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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Oneiromancer wrote:
The_Red_Hawk wrote:
4. You said that monsters cannot hide under tar. However, in holds made in early builds of the AE, it could be done (The Dungeon Research Dept. is an example).

I believe this was a bug. Thus, even if it could be done, it shouldn't have. And it doesn't work any more, so joker was correct. He doesn't need to make exceptions for beta builds...only the final product is important.

I was just building a room, and I found out that wraithwings can still be placed on tar though all the other monsters can't, which has the same effect on it as on everything else. Strange.....

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
12-27-2003 at 03:35 PM
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zex20913
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Sorry for the late intrusion, but I just read this thread. I also found an error with something you corrected. The Red Hawk said that roach queens can only produce 7 roaches at one given time. This is wrong. They can produce 8 if they are on a force arrow pointing towards Beethro. I felt this should be noted.

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12-27-2003 at 06:56 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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Oh yeah.....

That's right, but in most cases they can only produce 7.

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
12-27-2003 at 07:52 PM
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joker5
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I did not know that... thank you. That could be fairly useful.

Does the arrow have to point straight at beethro? Or is it just force arrows in general?

~joker5

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12-27-2003 at 08:03 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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It would have to be in a direction that prevents the queen from running away.

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
12-27-2003 at 08:10 PM
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DiMono
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
zex already got to the correction I had in mind, so that's my main fodder knocked down already. Curse you zex!

Anyway, as long as Erik signs off on the use of his words, I don't see anything wrong with quoting him. I mean hey, I got permission to take a room from Smallsome Swicks and basically transport it in to my new hold as is. Permission is the key.

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12-28-2003 at 06:28 AM
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joker5
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Thank you for the insightful comments :)

Are there any other things in this hold I should fix?

~joker5

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"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me
12-28-2003 at 08:26 PM
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Stuwy
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Pretty neat hold, I should use this hold to introduce my friends to the game.

Brains should be the last thing to talk about instead of the game elements. You need to learn more about game elements than brains in dugans dungeon.

other then that it's pretty good.
12-30-2003 at 08:02 AM
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joker5
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Hmm.... Should I reorder the levels then? Anyway, brains are used more than puzzle elements these days. The hold prepares you for DROD, not King Dugan's Dungeon.

I can't wait until 1.7... so many more elements to fiddle around with :drool

~joker5

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Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

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"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me
01-01-2004 at 08:44 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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icon Re: New hold: for the newbies (0)  
But for beginners, it could be very hard, because they change the movement rules of all the other monsters. So they should learn the normal way first.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
01-01-2004 at 08:59 PM
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joker5
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Yeah, I guess you're right.

So should I reorder the levels? The brain level will need a little modification so that players are exposed to how the brain affects all critters...

Thank you for the feedback!

~joker5


____________________________
Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me
01-02-2004 at 12:59 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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I would add more stuff on serpents and goblins, probably a separate level for each, and move wraithwings up on the list. Force arrows, potions, and trapdoors should probably be in the first few levels. Actually, the way that's most likely the best is the way Dugan's Dungeon runs. (Maybe you should even add a scroll about the 'Neather in the last room. I think it's even possible to include him.)

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
01-02-2004 at 03:43 AM
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