b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
IP: Logged

Black Serpent would look similar to Red Serpent, except for color.

Movement - just like Red Serpent.

Can be killed like Red Serpent, or simply with sword..

If killed "old-style", nothing unusual happens.
If killed by sword, each segment, including head, turns into roach egg ! (so you have few turns before armageddon)

Just think how many sinister puzzles can you plan with such a fiend !
==============
Oh, and it's black just to make it easy to remember that it's going to turn into roach eggs. (which are black, too).

[Edited by b0rsuk on 11-23-2003 at 12:31 PM GMT]

____________________________

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20051128/adams_01.shtml

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

b0rsuk wrote:
If killed by sword, each segment, including head, turns into roach egg ! (so you have few turns before armageddon)

Just think how many sinister puzzles can you plan with such a fiend !
==============
Oh, and it's black just to make it easy to remember that it's going to turn into roach eggs. (which are black, too).

[Edited by b0rsuk on 11-23-2003 at 12:31 PM GMT]

Roach eggs?

What has your serpent been eating lately?

It's an interesting idea, but serpents up until now have always been invulnerable. If the monster is made into something else, for example a giant centipede that is carrying a lot of eggs, then it may make it more consistent. Do the eggs produced also take 3 turns to mature? In addition do the offspring also have similar movement properties to a roach, or something else?

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 489
Registered: 11-23-2003
IP: Logged

It can be centipede, no problem.

Yes, eggs take 3 turns to mature.

The offspring - no need to create new creatures same as roaches (tar babies are redundant enough). Eggs left by centipede should spawn common roaches.

____________________________

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20051128/adams_01.shtml

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Roach eggs take 4 turns to mature these days.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I would like to see this monster, or something similar to it. The Splitter is along the same lines, but doesn't have the mass number quality that this would.

____________________________

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

I think it would be cool to keep the original idea, and have the monster be killed like a normal serpent in addition to Beethro's sword to the head. There could be some very interesting puzzles where you have to get the serpent down to a specific length before hitting it with your sword, in order to have just the right amount of creatures (not too many or too few). And even some of the crowded rooms like in Dugan's 12 would be more interesting if you had to worry about where your sword goes, and then when you only have 1 left it doesn't take forever to get it into the right place to die.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Aris Katsaris
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 32
Registered: 10-10-2003
IP: Logged

Hmm... so that we don't limit this to roaches, what do you think about the following variation?

The Black Snake always starts off like a two-square snake -- but rather than be blocked by one-square monsters, it *devours* them, growing one square in length at the same time.

When Beethro kills it with his sword, all the monsters previously devoured by the monster are loosed - every bit of the snake (other than the head and the tail) transforming into said monsters.

I'd also suggest that the sword be the *only* way this snake can be killed - there could still be puzzles where you can get it to the right length by having it devour just the precise number you need.

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Wow...that would certainly be interesting, and fun. It would also be complex. I like it.

____________________________

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Aris Katsaris wrote:
Hmm... so that we don't limit this to roaches, what do you think about the following variation?

The Black Snake always starts off like a two-square snake -- but rather than be blocked by one-square monsters, it *devours* them, growing one square in length at the same time.

When Beethro kills it with his sword, all the monsters previously devoured by the monster are loosed - every bit of the snake (other than the head and the tail) transforming into said monsters.

That seems unnecessary - it both adds complexity, and reduces the scope of using this serpent (since you won't be able to kill it when it's near you).

I'd also suggest that the sword be the *only* way this snake can be killed - there could still be puzzles where you can get it to the right length by having it devour just the precise number you need.

What if it gets its head trapped in a dead end? Would it just stop moving?

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Eytanz-Why couldn't it be killed near Beethro?

____________________________

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Sorry, wasn't specific enough. It couldn't be killed when it's surrounding Beethro, or, depending on what it ate and in what order, in other configurations, since Beethro will have no way of escaping the monsters within. That's a bad thing, in my opinion, especially the part I highlighted.

The original suggestion had the virute that you would always know what comes out of it - and that, being eggs, there's a timer delay for Beethro to reposition. The new version is both unpredictable, and far deadlier, which is a bad combo IMO.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Aris Katsaris
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 32
Registered: 10-10-2003
IP: Logged

That seems unnecessary - it both adds complexity, and reduces the scope of using this serpent (since you won't be able to kill it when it's near you).

I'd say that it increases its scope as an architect/player could use the serpent to transport other creatures, by having it shallow them up...

eytanz wrote:
Sorry, wasn't specific enough. It couldn't be killed when it's surrounding Beethro, or, depending on what it ate and in what order, in other configurations, since Beethro will have no way of escaping the monsters within. That's a bad thing, in my opinion, especially the part I highlighted.

Hmm... IMO, it's a good thing as it allows complicated play based on very simple rules... :-) A matter of opinion and in the end it'll be Erik that'll decide.

What if it gets its head trapped in a dead end? Would it just stop moving?

Yup. I felt that it if it can be killed by the sword (making it thus more vulnerable) then it has to be less vulnerable in some other way... Balance and all, you know...

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

I think this is a really neat idea, but I think it should be able to start at any length.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

If it starts at any length, what monster would come out when it is killed?

____________________________