b0rsuk
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NiroZ wrote:
Here's to hoping that EA get their act together.

Don't you even joke about that ! I had to check and make sure Bioshock is not published by EA. EA is evil. They have a looong tradition of very poor support, patches, balance. Their last RTS game, C&C3, intended as a great multiplayer game... fell short. Major imbalances (mass 1 unit to win), exploits (indestructible units !), disconnect counts as draw... Among already fixed bugs are: observers could use hotkeys to affect your production queue (ridiculous !). And some others I forgot. EA has a very bad reputation and they deserve it.

To say something positive, Bioshock switched to Unreal3 engine. This is good news for Linux people. Unreal3 will ship with a linux version right on the install cd. Unreal engines are known to have OpenGL renderers, and, in general, work well with Linux. Even if they don't release Linux version of BS, it should be fairly easy to emulate.

Bioshock has - for my state - too many similarities with System Shock. Deteriorating space ship => underwater station falling apart. Cybernetic upgrades => mutations. Disfigured humans as main enemies. Automatic defense systems in both games. It looks a bit too much like SS2 with new paint on it. (DooM -> Heretic etc). I'm a bit more skeptical about BS than I initially were.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 07-14-2007 03:39 PM]

eytanz
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b0rsuk wrote:

Bioshock has - for my state - too many similarities with System Shock. Deteriorating space ship => underwater station falling apart. Cybernetic upgrades => mutations. Disfigured humans as main enemies. Automatic defense systems in both games. It looks a bit too much like SS2 with new paint on it. (DooM -> Heretic etc). I'm a bit more skeptical about BS than I initially were.

This seems like a spurious concern to me. A lot of stories share basic structure and plot. "Trapped in a dying environment" was hardly invented by SS (1 or 2). It's the details that are important, not the setting, and for all I can tell the details of both the story and the gameplay are different enough from SS for this to be not a direct copy with a new paintjob. And besides, SS2 was a great experience and it was what - 7 years ago now? If it turns out to be really the same, and Bioshock manages to replicate the experience, I'm perfectly fine with that. Playing the same game every seven years doesn't seem like overdoing it to me.

I've seen maybe 20 different productions of Midsummer Night's Dream in my life. What determined whether I enjoyed each one wasn't how many times I've seen it before, but rather how well it was acted and directed. It's the same with computer games - what will determine whether I enjoy Bioshock will not be how similar or dissimilar it is to SS, but rather whether or not it is a good gameplay experience.

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NiroZ
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b0rsuk wrote:

NiroZ wrote:
Here's to hoping that EA get their act together.

Don't you even joke about that ! I had to check and make sure Bioshock is not published by EA.

I was actually referring to System Shock, which the IP is owned by EA. I know all to well about EA's buggy games.

b0rsuk
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Ugh. EA published System Shock 2. Must be a measurement error or something.

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NiroZ
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b0rsuk wrote:
Ugh. EA published System Shock 2. Must be a measurement error or something.

They also published Alpha Centari. Prior to the turn of the century, they were actually a pretty decent publisher IIRC.

Mattcrampy
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There is a reason why EA is as big as it is, and it's not entirely because of Madden.

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b0rsuk
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Same reason as with AOL. There are people who don't know better.

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eytanz
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b0rsuk wrote:
Same reason as with AOL. There are people who don't know better.

No, really not.

EA got where it did by creating great games. And I'm not talking about the late 90s here - I'm talking about the 80s, and the early 90s. I still remember that as a kid, if I saw the EA logo on a box, I knew I'd be happy with the game.

Then, as the computer game market shifted, and a lot of the early companies were dying, EA survived by basically giving up all that was good about its games becoming the soulless crap-producing publisher they are now. But that's not where they started, and it's worthwhile remembering that.

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BDR
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EA does on rare occasion still publish good games. Case in point: Freedom Fighters for the PS2 (you get to command a squad of people, there's the opportunity to heal wounded for a boost in your commanding power, and there's a nice TPS and storyline [what would happen if the Russians invaded and took over America, basically, though in my opinion it's done well] to boot).

I don't have a clue what's going to happen to the sequel. I'd like to think whatever studio's actually developing the product will still be making a product that's too small to catch EA's attention and involuntary redesign to make it more appealing to the lowest common denominator, but what's more likely to happen is it'll either get killed in development or said involuntary redesign will take place (which would suck).

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[Last edited by BDR at 07-15-2007 10:09 PM]

Mattcrampy
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Burnout 3 is also excellent, and they give Will Wright free reign. And as Eytan pointed out, early 90's and late 80's they were an excellent publisher that lived up to their name.

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mrimer
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Yeah! EA used to be really cool. Like in the C64 days.

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Znirk
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All the hours I wasted on Heart of Africa alone ...

NiroZ
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b0rsuk wrote:
SS2 was quite scary at times. I have yet to see anything scary in Bioshock (Screenshots, videos, anything).

Gamespy said after E3: The eeriness is reminiscent of System Shock and the calm, malevolent voice of Shodan following you everywhere. The echoes and other sound effects create an ambiance that nightmares are made of, and playing the game will have you jumping out of your seat.

Though that might interest you.

silver
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for it to truly succeed Deus Ex and System Shock for me, I need to be able to sneak. I hope I can do that. the all current videos are oriented towards "fast paced action" of the kind I so sucketh at.


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Yellow_Mage
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Deus Ex you can definitely sneak. It's very satisfying crawling through some air ducts and jump out behind a guard and plank him. Kindly putting it.

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eytanz
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I think silver is talking about Bioshock, not Deus Dx.

I'm pretty sure I read interviews where they mention sneaking is an option in Bioshock. And in general, demo videos are created by marketing which means they don't always accurately reflect gameplay.

Since these days I don't buy new retail games - only games that have been out long enough for the price to go down - I'll be pretty certain to know if Bioshock is the kind of game I'll enjoy before I buy it. Though it seems pretty likely that it is, since I like most FPSs that are not based on fantasy/sci-fi settings (as opposed to ones based on real combat).

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Mattcrampy
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Marketing have noticed that it's more effective to sell gameplay than story, so they're selling it as a kickass shooter. This is deliberate - you're able to use the environment and avoid confrontation if you so choose.

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NiroZ
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I probably should have pointed this out earlier, but for a while now Warren Spector (the guy who takes all the credit for this game) has been running a blog, which I suspect some people here would be very interested in.

lakibuk
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Anyone know if the PS2 version of Deus Ex is worth playing?

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NiroZ
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It's pretty much exactly the same game as Deus Ex is on the PC, only it uses slightly better graphics and tweaked menu music. But then again, you're using the dual shock instead of keyboard and mouse, which I personally think sucks. (not that I've actually ever played the ps2 version...)

NiroZ
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Just though other people here would be interested to know that the nameless mod has been released, to rave reviews. Haven't played it yet due to a little thing known has bandwidth, but I plan on fixing that.

Bobpie
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Dare I necro this thread? Yeah sure.
I was never able to get "into" Deus Ex so much, I would always quit after Liberty Island and never go back. But finally I decided to give it one last go and try not to quit until I finished the 2nd level.

Now I can't stop playing it. I don't know what happened, but things finally started to click and I have reached the point where all those little complaints I had were quickly dispatched to make room for more praise. There's no turning back now...I think I'm...enjoying Deus Ex.