bodkin
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 26
Registered: 03-19-2007
IP: Logged

File: Walking the slayer.hold (3.6 KB)
Downloaded 100 times.
License: Public Domain

Here is a small hold I'd like feedback on. I've not done this before so I hope I'm going about it the right way.

I've only just discovered that you can push the slayer around, and the most obvious thing to do with it is kill snakes like with a goblin. (This is probably common knowledge to this list but for me it's new exciting stuff.) If the room allows it it's very easy, and these rooms all allow it. The main moves are in the title demos.

I don't have a way of keeping a room locked until the slayer is killed, so the killing is optional. (Doom has a very clever way in his slayer + bomb room "The Duel.hold" but I didn't want to steal it.) Here the only times you have to kill a slayer is when it's getting in the way. Also, sometimes it's easier to run round him and wait for the wisp and for him to follow, rather than walk him all the way.

Timo006
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 526
Registered: 07-19-2006
IP: Logged

File: Wts 2S1W.demo (666 bytes)
Downloaded 66 times.
License: Public Domain

Hey, that's a nice hold, but I found unintended solutions (?) in the entrance, 2S, 2S1W (that unintended solution was so terrific that included my demo for it!), 2S2W, 1S2W and 2W.

Please watch my demo for 2S1W, as it is a magnificent slayer kill, a new method of killing the slayer!

Okay, here are the unintended solutions.

entrance, actually, you can kill the slayer in the box where the slayer is.

2S: I think you have to kill both snakes with the slayer, and kill the slayer using the tar, but you can kill one snake with the slayer, kill the slayer in one of the snake boxes, and use a tar baby to kill the second snake.

2S1W: Nice one, but I could slay the slayer without the hot tiles! demo attached of that room.

2S2W: I don't really know why you need the roach, or maybe I'm just that stupid, but I could kill the snake with the slayer and kill the slayer using the orb.

2S1W: you can kill the slayer using the walls. I think the intended solution is to use the broken orb.

2S: you can kill the upper slayer using one of the four methods shown in the middle of the room, you can also use the clone potion to kill all the slayers exept for the first one.

comments:

Entrance: very nice! I like it how you can move the slayer, it's challenging.

1S: good one, couldn't find any unintended solutions, and the use of the door is very nice.

2S: challenging, two snakes and tar to kill the slayer on.

2S1W: good one using hot tiles.

other rooms will follow.

EDIT: I better would attach the demo

EDIT AGAIN: I'll post the unintended solutions later, as I don't have time now.

____________________________
Drod Number: 3034; 8th person to see the Second Sky

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[Last edited by Timo006 at 05-09-2007 03:52 PM]

bodkin
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 26
Registered: 03-19-2007
IP: Logged

File: Walking the slayer002.hold (4.5 KB)
Downloaded 49 times.
License: Public Domain

Timo, your new method in 2S1W is brilliant. There should be a Drod medal for services against slayers. How come you were standing around with your back to the slayer? It looks as if you have to have the arrow, but it's possible this combination of sword directions and the wall appears in other places. Why not make a room of it and post your own demo.

I could make it impossible by adding a bit of wall at the entrance, but I think I should leave it in.

Thank you for going through the hold, and for your comments and discoveries.

--

How do you kill the slayer in the snake box? It's unintended but it's good.

You call 2S "challenging". It really really isn't – you manoeuvre the wisp into the right place (4x3 away from the arrow) then when the slayer comes round he automatically steps back onto the arrow. Or you get the wisp 4x4 away and walk him into it.

I'll put a using-the-wisp demo into the title demo to make it clearer. (But I'm having a problem with demos.)

-------------

Demos and crashing.

2S2W: You ask about the roach. The demos weren't working properly, it wouldn't always record a demo in the rooms that only had a slayer. I found that adding a roach and green door ensured a demo. (I've now put the 2S2W roach behind an arrow so it's clear it's separate from the rest of the room. This does stop a little bit of involvement as you exit, but it will stop other people looking for deep and clever answers.)

Now I've got more problems with the demos. I've moved rooms around for a new version but when I try to delete the old demo it crashes on me. And when I restart the old demos are still listed.

Also the title demo is an old demo, but I've moved the room! It's interesting: Beethro tries to do the same moves as in the old room, but walls get in his way.

I'll look on the site to see if this is a common problem. It might be quicker to start again from scratch.

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"2S1W: you can kill the slayer using the walls."
I thought I'd been so careful! Where is it? I can't see it.

2S1W is a weak room and I should change it. I wanted to alternate snake rooms with simple pushing-the-slayer-along corridors (like the hot tiles, which I really like.) Here it's much easier to run round the slayer and wait for the wisp. (Maybe that's a point that's worth keeping, in which case it should be shorter, and pushing him onto the arrows should be less fiddly.) The arrows and orb were an attempt to point up the wall method.

I've just added oremite to the four methods in 2S. Maybe I should take it out again and have it here for another easy kill. (I've put a sword token into the last room.)

I haven't got a single-bomb death, but I don't think it's that obvious. Unless the wisp path was mapped onto the floor perhaps. I do want this to be a very easy hold, to make up for all the slayer trauma I had in JTRH.

--

"2S: you can kill the upper slayer using one of the four methods in the middle of the room" – thank you for this, it shouldn't happen. I've put in some arrows. And moved the bombs a bit, to make it easier for the slayer to get entangled.

--

2s "you can also use the clone potion to kill all the slayers except for the first one."
How do you do this? This isn't supposed to happen. I thought I'd made it so you had to stop using the clone, by making you open the next orb with it. You've found a way round it?

Thank you again. I'm posting the latest version.

Timo006
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 526
Registered: 07-19-2006
IP: Logged

Thanks, about the slayer killed in those boxes, I'll add that demo later, now a few other things.

1S2W: you can kill him in the northwest corner, it's not that easy, but you can do it.

2S: remember that a slayer is attracted by the active clone, and doesn't attack a passive clone, and you can still alternate. (Actually I'm not that sure, because I didn't test that, but it should be possible)

Also, for the demo, which version are you using???

EDIT: The reason I was standing on that arrow with my back to the slayer was because I was trying to find an unintended solution, based on the unintended solution in the entrance with the arrows, I saw the behaviour of the slayer when I stood like that on the arrow, I tried some more, and that's how I got to that slayer kill.

____________________________
Drod Number: 3034; 8th person to see the Second Sky

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[Last edited by Timo006 at 05-09-2007 08:25 PM]

bodkin
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 26
Registered: 03-19-2007
IP: Logged

Hi there! I had problems with the the demo in the first version, but adding the roaches fixed it. But now it's broken in the second version. I think I'll send it in and ask for a bug fix. I've looked at the list of bugs and there do seem to be problems with demos. (Several times in TCB I don't have a demo for a room I've finished.)

In the narrow passageway, sometimes the slayer does attack the clone, when I've changed back leaving the clone only a square away. You have to be sure to leave the clone's sword pointing straight at him, diagonally and the slayer will step through and kill it.

Also, the death of the clone causes a death for Beethro. I don't know if these are intentional, but I don't know why it should be like this.

Timo006
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 526
Registered: 07-19-2006
IP: Logged

File: Wts 2S Victory.demo (1.3 KB)
Downloaded 47 times.
License: Public Domain

a clone is another beethro, you can only control 1 at the time but a clone is a piece of Beethro, when 1 piece is destroyed, the other pieces will follow.

Anyway, here is my demo for 2S showing that slayer kill on the arrows.

____________________________
Drod Number: 3034; 8th person to see the Second Sky

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[Last edited by Timo006 at 05-10-2007 06:49 AM]

bodkin
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 26
Registered: 03-19-2007
IP: Logged

Thank you for the slayer in snake box demo, using the arrow. I've put a minimalist version of it into my last room (and credited you). If that is OK with you?

I've made changes everywhere, but I need to find out about the bug.

Can I ask about hold etiquette? I'd like to have a surrounded-by-24 slayers-with-a-speed potion room to end the hold, because it would be fun. If obvious now. But it isn't my idea, it came from the thread. Is this OK or not?

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[Last edited by bodkin at 05-11-2007 01:54 PM]