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Aris Katsaris
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icon New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (+1)  
Hiya all. This is mainly just a (relatively) small humour/parody piece, though there do exist a handful of what might be considered "puzzles" in there. Not big ones, but still. :-)

Anyway, I took just a day or two to write it since I am busy with Real Life (tm) affairs -- and as such the hold may seem to you rather inelegant and clumsy at spots. Thought to release it now since I don't know when I'll ever have the time to polish it up further. Still, I playtested it and it's quite solvable, I assure you.

PS: When playing, remember that survival, not true "conquest", is your goal. No need to be sidetracked into needless monster-slaying. :glasses

*g* Tell me what you think.

[Edited by Aris Katsaris on 10-13-2003 at 08:59 PM GMT: Edited to add the actual file...]
10-13-2003 at 09:58 PM
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Mattcrampy
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
I think Firebird should stop trying to auto-log me in when I reply.

Oh, about your hold... right...

:D

It was amusing, and I like how you handled the story. I'd love to see more holds like this.

And yes, I actually completed a hold!

Anyone else?

Matt

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10-13-2003 at 10:47 PM
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eytanz
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Nice... Really nice. Both in concept and execution.

And the one actually conquerable room (Balin's tomb) makes for a nice puzzle.

By the way, a far scarier balrog than the one in the movie.

[Edited by eytanz on 10-14-2003 at 02:15 AM GMT]

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10-14-2003 at 02:11 AM
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StuartK
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
I agree entirely with Matts comments. Fun, excellent parody.

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Was the left path designed to be completable? If so, excellent puzzle. If not, you created a great (and difficult, and subtle) puzzle by accident :D
10-14-2003 at 02:11 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Oooh... Left path beatable? Need to try that now...

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10-14-2003 at 02:15 AM
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levelthirteen
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File: Moria The Left Path The Entrance Victory.demo (1.8 KB)
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Yes, the left path is beatable. EASY compared to some of the rooms The_Red_Hawk has posted.
10-14-2003 at 03:52 AM
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Mattcrampy
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Being without DROD right now, I can't hunker down and try and solve the left. However, from memory I did notice it was possible.

And Konqueror has issues. Honestly.

I'm taking this opportunity to break out the "Buy Matt a Laptop" tin. Taking collections...

:D

Matt

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10-14-2003 at 04:03 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Yeah, I solved it. Fun room, not too difficult, but you have to plan correctly.

I initially didn't notice it's possible to get to all the mothers - I didn't pay much attention and assumed some of them will be blocked out (or the brain, like in the gates room).

By the way, I really loved the way "Speak friend and enter" was handled :)

[Edited by eytanz on 10-14-2003 at 04:40 AM GMT]

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10-14-2003 at 04:39 AM
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Aris Katsaris
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
*g* I am really glad you guys seem to have enjoyed it all.

---

Yeah, as people have said, the left path is beatable - I had originally designed it not to be, but then I thought, 'hey, what the heck, somebody may like to solve it' and removed the one or two elements that were making it unbeatable.

Though I admit that I didn't play it to completion myself, generally not having much liking of rooms with so much tar and tar-babies floating around... So until people said it was so, I couldn't be entirely *certain* it was beatable, I simply had no reason to think the opposite... :D

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[Edited by Aris Katsaris on 10-14-2003 at 09:47 AM GMT]
10-14-2003 at 10:17 AM
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mrimer
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
I enjoyed your hold too. This type of puzzle feel is also something like I was going for in a couple levels of my Dugan's Dungeon Revisted. I did take on the tar room -- one step from the checkpoint and....ARGH!!!! Brings back those same feelings from the first time in the three-momma room in DD. So here's some eyes -- long live the tar baby :eyes

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10-14-2003 at 12:34 PM
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Mattcrampy
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Balin's Tomb:

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Matt

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10-15-2003 at 03:35 PM
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Aris Katsaris
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10-15-2003 at 03:52 PM
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krammer
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10-15-2003 at 04:43 PM
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mrimer
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Yeah, that was an interesting, original puzzle room. I never believed I could hold off and kill so many goblins! The left path is also really good as one of those "bonus" rooms, like the optional room guarding the way to a warp tunnel, for example.


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10-15-2003 at 04:53 PM
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Atch
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
This is the first hold that I have played, chosen for the similarity to my sister-in-law Moira’s name. She finds it inexplicable that a grown man should spend the best part of an hour trying to balance virtual roaches on particular parts of a virtual gate. Actually, thinking of King Dugan’s Level 9, 3N 3E’s NE gate, I was beginning to feel the same way myself!

As a DRODaholic these holds have proved to be a godsend – Dugan’s Level 25 isn’t the end after all – and I have been very impressed by the standard of this and the other three holds that I have played to date to the extent that I consider it a duty to the Architects responsible for me to comment on them.

Moria is a must for anyone who is dismayed by a surfeit of orbs and or goblins. In the history of DROD the Bridge of Khazaddum is an absolute classic of construction. Just how do you design such a play? Is it always done empirically, adding and subtracting elements and altering their positions until you get it just right, then throwing in a couple of dozen redundant elements for effect? I might have a go at building a hold myself if I can master the editor. So far I have built an almost exact replica of Dugan’s Dungeon when trying to extract Level 14’s, 3N to play and a single room with no entrances/exits or monsters! This latter hold is a locked room mystery that is unfortunately a mystery to me too. As for Khazaddum, I even had Beethro try to jump off the bridge to no avail and my best dying move was one kill in numerous attempts to escape.

Contrary to orders, Aris, I cleared Balin’s Tomb to give time to look for an access to the adjacent room. I take it that this inaccessible and impossible room is just another part of the parody.

Naturally I also took the Left Path – nine Tar Mothers, lovely! I didn’t find it possible to clear this room. I had time to get to the SE brain but two tar babies were spawned there later that I couldn’t then reach. Does this always happen or is there a way of cutting the tar to prevent it? If there is then I shall spend more time on this room.

Thank you Aris for a most enjoyable hold. I think that I can speak for everyone in hoping that you are able to find the time to exercise your considerable architectural abilities further.

10-17-2003 at 04:07 PM
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eytanz
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Atch wrote:
Naturally I also took the Left Path – nine Tar Mothers, lovely! I didn’t find it possible to clear this room. I had time to get to the SE brain but two tar babies were spawned there later that I couldn’t then reach. Does this always happen or is there a way of cutting the tar to prevent it? If there is then I shall spend more time on this room.

There's no way to prevent them from spawning. There is a way to kill them. It's not so much about how you cut the tar, though.

[Edited by eytanz on 10-17-2003 at 04:25 PM GMT: Replaced earlier post with more accurate one]

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10-17-2003 at 04:22 PM
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levelthirteen
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Atch wrote:
Naturally I also took the Left Path – nine Tar Mothers, lovely! I didn’t find it possible to clear this room. I had time to get to the SE brain but two tar babies were spawned there later that I couldn’t then reach. Does this always happen or is there a way of cutting the tar to prevent it? If there is then I shall spend more time on this room.
It is possible to prevent the generation of the two tar babies in the corner; I solved it by doing so.

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10-17-2003 at 06:43 PM
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Atch
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Thanks levelthirteen: no babies in the SE now. But
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Is that what eytanz meant? It is not how but when you cut the tar?

I shall now attempt to clear the room, quite a challenge with only the one checkpoint!
10-17-2003 at 07:20 PM
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eytanz
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Actually, my solution was different-

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10-17-2003 at 08:10 PM
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Atch
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Yes, thanks eytanz, that works too and…
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I am beginning to get the hang of the editor and may add more checkpoints if the room proves too frustrating. As a purist though I would prefer to tackle the room as originally conceived by Aris.

I have also visited Balin’s Tomb, Once West and will make that playable.

Incidentally, by adding an express stairway to Level 14 in Dugan’s Level 1, Once West, I finally reached and cleared Level 14, Thrice North – well worth the visit.

10-18-2003 at 07:46 AM
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Oneiromancer
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Yes, but with the editor, all you had to do really was select the room and playtest it. You do this by pressing F5 and then selecting where you want Beethro to start (you can also use Q and W at this point to rotate his sword). The playtesting will even save checkpoints. My apologies if you knew this already, but it is an easier way than making a new stairwell.

Game on,

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10-18-2003 at 07:58 AM
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Atch
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
No I didn't know that O although I now see that it is to be found in the Help section under Room Editor.

This really is a fantastic toy that we have been given to play with - I can't thank the creators enough.
10-18-2003 at 10:42 AM
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Aris Katsaris
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icon Re: New Hold: Moria (parody piece of sorts) (0)  
Atch wrote:

In the history of DROD the Bridge of Khazaddum is an absolute classic of construction.

Um, thanks. I really appreciate this -- though I do certainly feel a bit embarrassed, given how I think you are praising me far more than I or my hold deserves... :-)

Check out Dugan's Dungeon Revisited which mrimer also mentioned in this thread -- I hadn't seen it when I wrote the hold but afterwards I checked it out -- and there's a couple fun "running for your life" type of puzzles there also...

Contrary to orders, Aris, I cleared Balin’s Tomb to give time to look for an access to the adjacent room. I take it that this inaccessible and impossible room is just another part of the parody.

Just an unfinished room, which I originally entertained including, but the more I worked on it and the more elaborate it became, the more possible it became for the player to kill off the "Balrog" prematurely; or the opposite if the player entered the room using the wrong orientation, making the room impossible to escape from.... Neither of these choices was acceptable to me, and as I said I didn't (still don't) have the time to polish it up and fix it.... So I just sealed it off, replaced the exit at Balin's tomb with a staircase, etc. *g* I left the room itself in (though unreachable), just as an easter egg of sorts for anyone who might care to see it after conquering the whole thing...

The bit in the story it was supposed to represent is the part where Gandalf briefly closes a door using a "Word of Command" to trap the Balrog on the other side, just before the fellowship heads for the bridge of Khazad-dum. Not very exciting, and it didn't really add much to the parody -- so probably not much of a loss, IMO.

*g* Thanks again for the very nice comments!

--

And, btw, I finally understand what StuartK meant when he praised the difficulty and subtlety of the Left Path room! Heh... this may have been the first time where a room is more difficult and subtle than its architect initially thought it to be -- I had *not* figured out the trickiness with the tar babies that would be spawned in the SE side -- that was entirely created by accident!

Ah well... It's the ABA principle at work - "Art By Accident"... :D

10-18-2003 at 03:28 PM
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