NiroZ
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I just went back to JtRH to check something, and I noticed that JtRH's menu was a joy to navigate compared to TCB.

Can someone please confirm that this is not just me?

TripleM
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I don't know, I went back to check something too, and I thought it looked plain compared to the new TCB version. Depends what you by mean 'a joy to navigate' I guess.

eytanz
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Yeah, this is the kind of vague feature request I know Mike hates - just enough information to let him know that you're not satisfied and want something done, but no indication of what needs to be done, or why, or how it will make things better.

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silver
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The main menu has the exact same options in the same order, but in TCB the highlighting of the one my sword is pointing at is much clearer, whereas I can barely tell what I've selected in JtRH. The menu options in TCB are also bigger than the ones in JtRH. Not sure what you mean, there, Niro.


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gamer_extreme_101
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I'm probably going to be shunned for this, but I personally found the TCB menu to look less professional than the JtRH menu.



In terms to coolness and fun, TCB wins, but looking at it from a strictly consumer point, [JtRH] was a lot more polished. The stone border with the high resolution map was a lot cleaner to look at, while the flashlight mouse cursor I've found to get irritating after a bit. I can guess as to why the new approach was taken, but I'm firmly planting myself into the "Pro Old-School" category.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 04-13-2007 05:47 PM]

eytanz
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Well, there's two aspects of the main menu - appearance, and functionality.

Appearance is partially a matter of taste. Some people (including myself) like the look of the old JtRH menu better. Some like the look of TCB better. And like almost all aesthetic issues associated with DROD, it's not going to be decided by popular vote - not that people giving their opinion doesn't matter, but don't expect actual changes for DROD 3.0, rather people's suggestions and opinions might influence future products.

Functionality, however, is more pertinent. If the 3.0 menu is more difficult to use for some reason than the 2.0 menu, that's important to know, and might be corrected relatively soon. NiroZ's post is phrased in a way that suggests that that is the issue for him. So I want to know what he meant.

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gamer_extreme_101
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While I agree with everything that Eytan said, what I see as even more of a bummer is the fact that there's no easy way to replace the TCB title background. I understand hiding the file itself, as that makes logical sense, but not even a way of creating a new one and hammering it in via drod.ini? That makes me sad.

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silver
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you know there's 3 different background images for the TCB menu, and it randomly picks one each time, right?
--
as for functionality, I find TCB much more usable - the bigger text and better highlighting I noted help a lot.


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[Last edited by silver at 04-13-2007 06:31 AM]

NiroZ
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eytanz wrote:
Yeah, this is the kind of vague feature request I know Mike hates.

I don't blame him.

silver wrote:
The menu options in TCB are also bigger than the ones in JtRH. Not sure what you mean, there, Niro.

That's what had me slightly baffled too.

I've looked a bit deeper into this, and here's what I've noticed.

JtRH
-Stands out clearly.
-Whole background slowly moving, highlighting the static text.

TCB
-Dark colour on dark background
-Static text and background, moving objects(Roaches). Flickering lights and moving shadow
-In the 'Play Game' menu, Change Location and Caravelnet Chat are exactly the same length, both begin with C, and are next to each other. Even though different letters are highlighted, when you scroll over with the light, it's hard to tell between them.
-The light, when scrolling over the menu, forces me to refocus my eyes to see the menu. Menu is easier to see without the light. Even when I fiddle with the gamma settings. I'd say that this is my biggest gripe.
-Playing around just now, I realised just how much I kept clicking on the wrong item.
-Grainy text (Yes, I know I've been over this already)

And thus, suggested improvements.
-Have the menu text surrounded by a border, and is kept at the same illumination even when the cursor is brought over it.
-When the text is scrolled over, have text a different colour to the hotkeys. Probably a touch or too darker than it currently is. Keep hotkeys same colour.
-Move Caravel Chat to above New Game.

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 04-13-2007 07:25 AM]

silver
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thank you for taking the time to think about what was really bugging you and how it might be fixed. I'm not a dev, so I can't comment further, except that I'm glad you rose to eytanz' challenge


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zex20913
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I think that "highlighting" to a darker blue would do a lot for me. Currently, when the cursor is over an option, it's difficult to read, because it starts to blend in with the light.

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Briareos
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zex20913 wrote:
I think that "highlighting" to a darker blue would do a lot for me.

That's kind of a Catch-22, actually - since not all text is highlighted, the portions outside of the highlight will get harder to read... But yeah, the highlighting as it currently is is what I don't like as well.

I'd propose keeping the highlight color as it is, but add a black outline to either the highlighted option or all options in general, kinda like DVD subtitles. Of course, this is already done for the "End level!" and stats messages, so I guess it's already doable...

Oh, and of course anti-aliasing would be nice.

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[Last edited by Briareos at 04-13-2007 12:51 PM]

Banjooie
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actually I completely despise the TCB title screen and wouldn't mind like--like, for god's sakes, make the bit with the words on it stand out. Like, make it so the bricks behind it are lit up and protruding from the wall, or something.

The spitemaster
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Is it just me or does it look like DROD 3D?

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Pilchard VIII
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I also thought it looked a little like DROD 3D. You're not alone.

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Ravon
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Banjooie wrote:
actually I completely despise the TCB title screen and wouldn't mind like--like, for god's sakes, make the bit with the words on it stand out. Like, make it so the bricks behind it are lit up and protruding from the wall, or something.

Excellent idea.

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[Last edited by Ravon at 04-14-2007 12:27 AM]

coppro
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I never noticed. I always navigate the menu (actually, everything I can) by keyboard. For instance, if I want to build my hold from the desktop, I go Ctrl+Alt+C, then press B once DROD opens up. To go from the Room editor to the chat window, Esc Esc P C.

Tahnan
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coppro wrote:
I never noticed. I always navigate the menu (actually, everything I can) by keyboard.

Yeah, me too. The fact that "keep playing" from the main menu is "P, P", and "build holds" from the submenu is "B, B", has always been awfully easy to remember. I can see how, if you use the mouse to navigate the menus, the lighting might be annoying, but I've never thought about it.

Briareos
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I just noticed that there now is a green checkmark next to this topic - so could any of the powers that be working on this give us a hint or two as to what this means?

np: New Order - Blue Monday (Singles (Disc 1))

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R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

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[Last edited by Briareos at 04-14-2007 11:39 AM]

The spitemaster
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I don't think TCB was completely finished when they sent it out. Keeping the hungry masses happy.

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coppro
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It was pretty finished, however, we did not have the massive number of people to try out every single possibility during the beta-test. "Never underestimate the ingenuity of an idiot"

zex20913
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I thought it was "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers".

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Maurog
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The goblin token says:

"Never underestimate the power of overwhelming stupidity in overwhelming numbers."

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Briareos
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zex20913 wrote:
I thought it was "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers".

Either that one, or this one...   

(I still need to get me one of those Despair Mugs someday...)

np: Star You Star Me - Night Rider (Simple Things)

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"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)