Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
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eytanz wrote:
You've genuinely overtaken me, anyway. I still can't upload my scores (I'm using an internet cafe now, my laptop doesn't have a connection), but IIRC I think I'm around 97-98 rooms, and 43 stars.

Well, you're still ahead on stars. I got one more last night but main level progress will likely be very slow from now on. I suspect that you will catch up on levels before too long and then you'll be ahead on the scoreboards by virtue of stars.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

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[Last edited by Oneiromancer at 03-20-2007 12:23 PM]

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
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The Open Sesame mission is driving me crazy. No matter what I do, I'm always one gem short. Grrr...

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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I'm not only one gem short, I also can't figure out how to leave the room (assuming I get at least one gem. Leaving with 0 is trivial).

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I got my avatar back! Yay!

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
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Err, you mean a starfish. I meant a gem, as in a 2x1 tile block. Getting out involves having a spare one (at least I think so).

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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I've barely fooled around with Open Sesame...I kind of see how to get a few of the starfish individually, I just don't feel like doing it yet. I'm just waiting for bibelot to pass me...he's only 1 level behind but about 10 stars ahead.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

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[Last edited by Oneiromancer at 03-20-2007 10:23 PM]

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Maurog wrote:
Err, you mean a starfish. I meant a gem, as in a 2x1 tile block. Getting out involves having a spare one (at least I think so).

Oh, yes. You're right, and you're right. I finally figured it out myself yesterday...

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
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I finally made it! That was the hardest room so far, seriously, wow. Now to catch up with you guys...

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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Beat the Enter the Lab level. And now that I've seen the three rooms beyond it, I almost wish I had stayed in blissful ignorance. I am so very afraid to see the very final level...probably in a year from now or so.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5141
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Oneiromancer wrote:
Beat the Enter the Lab level. And now that I've seen the three rooms beyond it, I almost wish I had stayed in blissful ignorance. I am so very afraid to see the very final level...probably in a year from now or so.

Do you think FF2 with unlimited undo is easier or harder than DROD (say, JtRH) with 1-move undo?

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

It's not easily comparable. I think that unlimited undo is more or less a red herring here - it really doesn't affect difficulty that much (on either DROD or Fish Fillets). Difficulty is determined almost entirely on the basis of the room design anyway, and both games allow for a wide range.

The difference is as follows: in DROD, difficulty is mostly derived from the fact that the game elements the player interacts with react to the player's actions (or, in more complex cases such as serpents, slayers, and spawners, also react to additional constraints). This is offset by the fact that, scripting excluded, the game elements are constant across all the rooms, what changes is their configuration.

In FF, all player/game element interactions are local - the only possible interactions are the player moving an object and the effect of gravity if an object is dropped (this changes slightly with the snails in FF2, but the principle is the same). What contributes to the difficulty is that both the object configurations *and* the objects themselves are novel in each room.

I find that I rarely use the unlimited undo capabilities in FF2 - partially, undoing more than one or two moves is really slow. I tend to just restore back to the latest save. And this, by the way, is a much more significant difference between DROD and FF2 - the fact that FF2 allows a "save anywhere anytime" option while DROD is checkpoint-based. The unlimited vs. 1-move undo difference is really just a side-effect of this difference, as it makes no sense at all to limit undo but allow unlimited saves.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
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I more or less agree with Eytan. The hardest levels of FF2 are just like, say, Beethro's Teacher or agaricus' holds. Even if you have unlimited undo, you still have to figure out how to actually solve the rooms first. Once you do figure it out, putting it into practice is much easier when you can take back your mistakes. It also means I can try something, and if it doesn't work, just go back...and currently with the way that restoring works, I'd rather use undo to go back instead of reloading so that I can go back farther than the save point. For these later levels (I've finished Get the Keycard and Get the Aliens now, yay!) I've had tons of save points though.

For the scoreboards, unlimited undo clearly makes a difference on the efficiency. In DROD, if I bump into a wall I'll undo, or some other obviously inefficient movement. In FF2 it's pretty easy to accidentally overshoot when swimming (the movement is "sticky" sometimes) so I'll often undo and fix it. Also, the undo takes back many more moves when you aren't pushing or carrying something so it doesn't always take a long time. It's definitely true that having the "save anywhere and as much as you want" means you might as well have unlimited undo. If you're thinking about that portable checkpoint for DROD, Mike, but don't want to add unlimited undo, the save method from FF1 might be better--you can save anywhere, but can only keep one state at a time.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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...and beat the game! I finally broke down and used my two wildcards on the last two "final" levels before the last level, because dammit, I wanted to see it! And I knew from the scoreboard that it doesn't take that many moves to beat the last level, compared to several thousand each for the two that I skipped. Of course, that doesn't mean the last level is simple, but I was finally able to do it. Now I just have 4 levels (the two final ones I skipped, and two of the bonus levels) and 42 starfish to get. I think I'm gonna take another break before I go after those. Oh, who am I kidding, I'll probably be back at it tomorrow.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Cool!

I hope to catch up before too long... I did see the ending movie already because I unlocked it with starfish, but I want to see the final level.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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I think I can, I think I can...

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Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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Woot! I've now completed every level...and oh wow, Botany Division is so freaking evil. All other non-starfish solutions paled in comparison to this one. And, of course, there is a starfish in that room that will give me nightmares, I am sure. But not for a very long time, I hope.

And now, I might actually get to sleep quickly tonight, instead of tossing and turning while running the rooms I had left to solve through my head.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

tonyk
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 45
Registered: 10-09-2005
IP: Logged

After all the excitement and comments here surrounding this game, I finally bought it. (530 MB download - ouch for my broadband plan!)

I just have to know - will I lose my sanity (again)?


____________________________
Life is hard. DROD, harder.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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tonyk wrote:
I just have to know - will I lose my sanity (again)?

Mwahahaha!

Yes. Yes you will. But in a good way! You will gain a greater understanding of the thin line between possible and impossible...

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Gahh! I'm stuck, stuck, stuck. Not on a particular level, but on this game. Ever since I bought it I have played too much Maybe I could register, and compete with my (probably) crappy scores.

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5141
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Blondbeard wrote:
Gahh! I'm stuck, stuck, stuck. Not on a particular level, but on this game. Ever since I bought it I have played too much Maybe I could register, and compete with my (probably) crappy scores.

Yes, register! We'll have another optimization fight, er, competition!

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

tonyk
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 45
Registered: 10-09-2005
IP: Logged

Oneiromancer wrote:

tonyk wrote:
I just have to know - will I lose my sanity (again)?

Mwahahaha!

Yes. Yes you will. But in a good way! You will gain a greater understanding of the thin line between possible and impossible...

Game on,

Yeah, this is a challenging game.
Unfortunately when TCB comes out (very soon....) it will have to take a back seat. I will be returning to it though.

____________________________
Life is hard. DROD, harder.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

I can't register I don't have a registration code. I supose that my stupid hotmail deleted the e-mail with the code before I even got it. Do you think I can ask for a new code? Can I trust that those distibuting the game won't send me any spam if I give them my more reliable e-mailaddress?

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 03-30-2007 08:57 AM]

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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I gave them my regular email address and never got any email from them beyond the original registration email.

But how could you have the full version without a registration key? It was needed to unlock the non-demo levels.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

If you use the in-game Buy link, then it automatically makes the game the full version and you don't need the e-mail to just play it. That is probably what Blondbeard did.

Blondbeard, just e-mail the developers, I don't think that so many people have bought the game yet that they can't look up the information and re-send it to you. Just make sure to include the first address you gave them so that they know it is really you, or other identifying information.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Thanks! I did that. Let's see if it works

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Done! Thanks guys! I am aperantly in place 22, which is a lot better than I would have excpected. My name over there is Lillarion.

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5141
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Blondbeard wrote:
Done! Thanks guys! I am aperantly in place 22, which is a lot better than I would have excpected. My name over there is Lillarion.

I have finally caught up to you, Blondbeard!

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Yes... Well... I played this game a lot, but then another game came along and stole my time

I will complete Fish Fillets 2 in due time. I'm almost finished with TCB (maybe... I have alll the secrets left).

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 04-16-2007 08:32 AM]

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

I just now got the last of the 80 starfish. I'm just going to finish the jigsaw puzzles I didn't do yet, and then I think I deserve a little break. Amazing game!

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

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[Last edited by Oneiromancer at 04-17-2007 01:22 AM]

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5141
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I finished FF2! I enjoyed the ending -- great (and hard) game!

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

silver
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 915
Registered: 01-18-2005
IP: Logged

it's finishable? must be at least a leetle bit easier than FF then I think only a couple people in the world actually beat FF (at least until oneiromancer's guide came out)


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