Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

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Yikes! I never would have gotten that!

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

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Actually you can get the Sacred Shield before the Holy Shield. It looks a bit fun on your character sheet, since you will see a picture of the Holy shield, while you still will be imune to all magical attacks.

I don't know what you mean with digustingly high stats, but it's quite managable to reach more than 600 in defense before you fase the dragon, thus taking no damage from him.

Fafnir
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 315
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Actually, it doesn't work on Linux (even with WINE) - I have a Windows partition that I use for gaming, I just use Linux for everything else.

____________________________
Stupidity kills.
Absolute stupidity
Kills absolutely.

DGM
Level: Master Delver
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Blondbeard wrote:
I don't know what you mean with digustingly high stats, but it's quite managable to reach more than 600 in defense before you fase the dragon, thus taking no damage from him.

Get the Sacred Shield early enough and you'll save a lot of damage from regular attacks and avoid having your health cut in half 4 times by Zeno's flunkies. You can finish with an outrageous life total. Also, you can hold off talking to the guy on floor 2 (the one who raises your offense/defense by 3%) until you've done everything else possible in the game to boost them, then use the elixer.

Incidentally, I should mention that if you got the Sacred Shield by pumping your offense through the roof at the altar until you could fight the guardians, that isn't how I did it. There's a less costly method...

____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

DGM
Level: Master Delver
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Fafnir wrote:
Actually, it doesn't work on Linux (even with WINE) - I have a Windows partition that I use for gaming, I just use Linux for everything else.

Argh. I should have known it was too good to be true.

Well, the good news is that Game Maker has explicit support for .ini files, which I understand work well on all major platforms. So it looks like I can use them to store data in and mac/linux ports will be able to share the existing library of dungeons.

____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

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Well... I ended with 27800 lives, a defense of 620 and an offense of 416. I don't know if that's desgustingly high though

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5064
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Blondbeard wrote:
Well... I ended with 27800 lives, a defense of 620 and an offense of 416. I don't know if that's desgustingly high though

With some very useful advice from Blondbeard, I ended with 35336 life, 394 ATK, and 613 DEF, which I'm guessing is roughly equivalent scorewise. There are a couple more things I'm going to try to tune up now in my runthrough.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
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Red key = 3 points, blue key = 2 points, yellow key = 1 point

1000 lives = 2.5 points, 10 offense = 5 points, 20 defense = 7 points

Then you have to substract a constant. This is the conclusion I reached when I experimented a bit with the fairy. I think the constant you have to substract is 177, and every number you get should be rounded down.

Your score would probably be 5 points higher than mine, mrimer. At least if we hade the same number of keys

DGM
Level: Master Delver
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mrimer wrote:
There are a couple more things I'm going to try to tune up now in my runthrough.

<ahem>

Shouldn't you be working on The City Beneath?

BTW, I'm starting to expose the demo in other places on the internet now and I recall that you wanted to know where it was being discussed. So:
http://forums.4aynrandfans.com/index.php?showtopic=5555


____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

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[Last edited by DGM at 02-06-2007 11:44 PM]

coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1308
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Based on the position of the bar and the lack of Master Locks, I would guess that TCB is waiting on the Beethro dialogue.

DGM
Level: Master Delver
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coppro wrote:
Based on the position of the bar and the lack of Master Locks, I would guess that TCB is waiting on the Beethro dialogue.

Okay, I'll buy that. But if my game comes out before theirs does, these people need to be seriously ashamed of themselves.

Speaking of Beethro dialogue, though... A couple of nights ago I used my extra download credit from October to get KDD 2.0. I had held off on playing the Architect's Edition as I wanted to hear the voice acting, but to my disappointment the voices seem to be missing from 2.0.

Anybody know what's going on or how to fix this?

____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

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[Last edited by DGM at 02-07-2007 04:23 AM]

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5064
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Blondbeard, having that score breakdown is very useful! It's good to know, for instance, that having keys contributes to one's score. I couldn't figure out why certain scores with the same HP/ATK/DEF stats were ranked with different scores on the game's high score board.

DGM wrote:
Okay, I'll buy that. But if my game comes out before theirs does, these people need to be seriously ashamed of themselves.

All I will say is that I've not been guilty of holding up the show.

Speaking of Beethro dialogue, though... A couple of nights ago I used my extra download credit from October to get KDD 2.0. I had held off on playing the Architect's Edition as I wanted to hear the voice acting, but to my disappointment the voices seem to be missing from 2.0.

Anybody know what's going on or how to fix this?

You must have version 2.0.14. It has a bug where the voices are not played for imported holds. Either get the 2.0.14.1 patch or the 2.0.15 JtRH patch release candidate (posted on the Bugs Board), and then importing holds with voices will work fine. (It won't be fixed for holds already imported without voice, though. To fix that, you'll have to delete the hold and reimport. In the next day or two, I'll update the 2.0.15 JtRH RC so you'll be able to delete the KDD 2.0 Smitemasters Selection hold and reimport it correctly.)

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5064
Registered: 02-04-2003
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mrimer wrote:

Blondbeard wrote:
Well... I ended with 27800 lives, a defense of 620 and an offense of 416. I don't know if that's desgustingly high though

With some very useful advice from Blondbeard, I ended with 35336 life, 394 ATK, and 613 DEF, which I'm guessing is roughly equivalent scorewise. There are a couple more things I'm going to try to tune up now in my runthrough.

Ran through again and tuned a few things up, like using the wise man 3% boost at the end. This time, I had 35690/401/628 at the end (357 points).

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

I realized yesterday that I had used the Warp Staff in a very odd way. Despite the fact that I would have taken 0 damage from both Zeno and his sergeants I used the Warp Staff as in your [mrimers] walkthrough. After I had taken 0 damage and made him say "alas!" I teleported myself outside, and then inside again. I thought you had to do it that way, and didn't bother to check until yesterday. I then managed to get a score of 154 from an old save, but I think I know how to do better.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 02-08-2007 07:19 AM]

DGM
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 202
Registered: 06-16-2006
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Yeesh. Have I derailed my own thread or what?

I probably shouldn't encourage you guys any further, but:

1) The [magic elixir] gives [10 life per offense] and [5 life per defense].

2) New challenge: Defeat the level 10 boss without spending any money along the way (at the altar or the merchants).

3) New challenge: Have 4 red keys in your possession at once without facing the Master. This doesn't help you to actually win, but it is an alternate way to complete my "reach the princess without facing the last 3 bosses" challenge.

____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

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[Last edited by mrimer at 02-09-2007 04:52 PM]

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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After another heavy round of optimizing, I improved my end score by five points to 362. Now that I know keys factor into the score, I worked on conserving keys as I went through. I'm done with optimizing further unless I hear of any more breakthroughs. I'll post revision 4 of my walkthrough on my home page tomorrow.

Blondbeard wrote:
I realized yesterday that I had used the Warp Staff in a very odd way. Despite the fact that I would have taken 0 damage from both Zeno and his sergeants I used the Warp Staff as in your [mrimers] walkthrough. After I had taken 0 damage and made him say "alas!" I teleported myself outside, and then inside again. I thought you had to do it that way, and didn't bother to check until yesterday. I then managed to get a score of 154 from an old save, but I think I know how to do better.

Woah...did you use the Mattock to get the Holy Sword before that then? Is there a way to make the gate to the Holy Sword open, or is the Mattock or Warp Staff always required to get it?

Edit: Don't worry...this thread will get back on topic whenever there's new stuff going on with The Dungeon.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 02-09-2007 02:17 AM]

DGM
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 202
Registered: 06-16-2006
IP: Logged

mrimer wrote:
After another heavy round of optimizing, I improved my end score by five points to 362.

Curses. And I had just bumped my score up to 360. I can't have you clowns upstaging me in my own thread.

Now that I know keys factor into the score, I worked on conserving keys as I went through. I'm done with optimizing further unless I hear of any more breakthroughs.

I made one more. I've found the best place in the game - bar none - to use the mattock:

Is there a way to make the gate to the Holy Sword open, or is the Mattock or Warp Staff always required to get it?

If anybody finds a way, I'd like to know also. One of the NPCs claims that there's always guards corresponding to each gate, but...

Edit: Don't worry...this thread will get back on topic whenever there's new stuff going on with The Dungeon.

I know. I was just joking. Mainly I'm waiting on Game Maker 7.0 to be released, as it promises some features I plan to take advantage of. In the meantime, I'm trying to get some more design work out of the way... Making an editor instead of making a dungeon directly is a whole new level of "complicated."


EDIT: Mike where is your existing walkthrough?

____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

---

[Last edited by DGM at 02-09-2007 05:12 AM]

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3226
Registered: 07-05-2004
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DGM wrote:
EDIT: Mike where is your existing walkthrough?

On Mike's homepage
( http://students.cs.byu.edu/~mrimer/TotS_Walkthrough.txt )

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
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mrimer wrote:
Woah...did you use the Mattock to get the Holy Sword before that then? Is there a way to make the gate to the Holy Sword open, or is the Mattock or Warp Staff always required to get it?

No I didn't. I secreted how you get the Holy Sword:

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 02-09-2007 07:43 AM]

DGM
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 202
Registered: 06-16-2006
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Blondbeard wrote:
No I didn't. I secreted how you get the Holy Sword:

Have some rank points for that one, BlondBeard.

____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

DGM
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 202
Registered: 06-16-2006
IP: Logged

Finished at:

Life: 33198
Offense: 393
Defense: 653
Score: 373

I'm sure Mike can wring out a handful of extra points via optimization, though.

____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
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I'm behind I just got a score of 368. Still not to bad, eh?

DGM
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 202
Registered: 06-16-2006
IP: Logged

You know, I didn't think that the creator of TOTS had taken sequence breaking into account at all. Turns out I was wrong.

While playing around to see how badly I could unhinge the game (can you tell I love www.it-he.com too much?), I got an extra conversation with the thief. Nothing spectacular, just him exclaiming relief that I was still alive. But it happens outside the normal plot sequence.

2 rank points to the first person to post when, where and how to get this conversation. Secreted, please.


____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Wow...Thanks, Blondbeard. Now I can look for new places to use the warp staff. Woo hoo!

Doom wrote:

DGM wrote:
EDIT: Mike where is your existing walkthrough?

On Mike's homepage
( http://students.cs.byu.edu/~mrimer/TotS_Walkthrough.txt )

I just posted the 363 point walkthrough at

http://students.cs.byu.edu/~mrimer/TotS_Walkthrough4.txt

Note you can always get to the most recent walkthrough from my "Games" page

http://students.cs.byu.edu/~mrimer/games.html

Edit: Note that I've added a summary of altar choices at the end. Do you guys know of a sequence that works better for you?

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

---

[Last edited by mrimer at 02-09-2007 05:16 PM]

DGM
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 202
Registered: 06-16-2006
IP: Logged

mrimer wrote:
Wow...Thanks, Blondbeard. Now I can look for new places to use the warp staff. Woo hoo!

Here's a bunch of stuff to consider:



____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

---

[Last edited by DGM at 02-16-2007 02:53 AM]

Turkey
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 13
Registered: 09-27-2006
IP: Logged

Probably a stupid question (I am stupid - hence "Turkey"), but I'm having trouble opening the game file. Sometimes it opens and plays fine, but more often than not I get an unexpected error message and my computer won't open it :-( Is there something I need installed to open the game exec properly that I don't know about? (I'm running a normal home PC with Win XP Home Ed and have had problems before with Game-Maker type progs).
Thanks in advance for any assistance.

DGM
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 202
Registered: 06-16-2006
IP: Logged

This came up on another forum. Make sure you have DirectX 8.0 or better and make sure your graphics card drivers are current.

DirectX can be found here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/

Let me know if you still have trouble after updating.


EDIT: Turkey, don't beat yourself up. I've got a genius-level IQ, I'm a computer science major who excels in programming courses and I've been using computers since my earliest memories (I taught myself to read playing Ultima 4). Despite all of this, even I don't always understand why a program refuses to run.

Computer software is complicated, even for those who deal with it professionally.

____________________________
My gaming blog is at http://dungeon-games.com/blog/

---

[Last edited by DGM at 02-09-2007 09:24 PM]

Turkey
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 13
Registered: 09-27-2006
IP: Logged

Hmm... I've ensured that both Direct X & my graphic card drivers are current - no change (still getting "An unexpected error occured while running the programme"). However the game runs on my (older) laptop with no probelm! I guess you're right DGM - it is complicated. Perhaps I've got some kind of software clash going on... I don't know. I'll stick to my Laptop. Thanks anyway.

BDR
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 106
Registered: 10-03-2006
IP: Logged

Here's something else to think about: Benjamin Franklin believed that the turkey should have been the national bird...

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
Registered: 01-08-2006
IP: Logged

I'll finish that sentence!

Benjamin Franklin believed that the turkey should have been the national bird...

of America! Fill in the blanks are so much fun!

But seriously, I've heard about that, and I agree with him. Benjamin Franklin would be one of the people I would first think of visiting if I had a time machine!