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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Feature Requests : Digging Serpents
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Oneiromancer
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...or perhaps a better name, like Tunneling Worms or something like that. For this post I will call them "diggers" for short.

Diggers are just like serpents, except that they can dig through walls. Normal walls take 5 turns to dig through, during which time the digger shortens like a normal serpent. So a sufficiently thick wall can still kill a digger, but a 1 block thick wall will let through all but the shortest diggers. Breakable walls can be destroyed by the serpent on the first turn, much like Beethro with his sword in front of him. Pits still kill serpents like normal, as do orbs. Diggers don't like to kill other monsters, but will if they have no other choice. It takes just one turn to eat a monster (i.e., no shortening of the digger). Diggers can't eat other diggers or serpents. An unbrained digger will only dig into a wall if it has been lured into a dead end. It will treat breakable walls as empty spaces for the purpose of chasing Beethro. Note that if a digger is trapped against itself and a wall, like say in a 2 square wide corridor, it will try to dig through the wall rather than die on itself. When brains are around, diggers will be able to calculate the least damaging way of getting through walls to Beethro, if he is unreachable by any other method (self-preservation comes first, then killing Beethro). If a brained digger is stuck agains a wall and itself, it will decide if it is better to wait or to dig.

That leaves doors, statues (those 2x2 pieces), and tar. For doors, I think it would probably be best if they were unaffected by diggers, but an option could be to just have the digger open the door to be reopened if possible by an orb. It seems to me that statues are not as strong as walls, but stronger than breakable walls...perhaps they dig through every other turn? Finally, you could argue that tar is like a creature, and so the digger avoids it, but I think it would be more interesting to have the digger carve its way through the tar. If it is a square that Beethro would normally be able to break, then it can go through in one turn, but if it is a curved portion of tar then it can go through just like a normal wall (5 turns). This is an interesting way of getting rid of previously unpassable tar.

I'm sure I missed some subtle thing, but there you go. Critique away!

Game on,

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08-19-2003 at 08:18 PM
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zex20913
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Sounds like a good idea, might be a bit odd at first though. Couple'a questions.

1. What about if the digger gets to the one-square-wide-entrance to a room? Would it dig through the walls to survive?
2. I don't like the ability for toggling doors/reopening them. While I grant that it does add much puzzle potential, it takes away Beethro's ability to direct the monsters how he wants them.
3. How would the digging be represented graphically, if it were up to you?
4. Should eating a monster make it grow a space?
5. I assume that "just like serpents" means it can't go over arrows or scrolls.
6. I like the tar eating ability. A movement function for it would be to go for the "breakable" parts of the tar, unless it has to get a curvy part.
7. I'm assuming red, green, and blue doors would be things that it couldn't effect.
8. Interesting thought: If the digger ate a brain, would it be permanently brained?

I think that's it.

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08-19-2003 at 10:22 PM
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noman
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What if a digger eats a digger? Does it die instantly, od does just the part with the end die, or ist it seperated into two diggers?

Same with serpents!!

I say there should be a wall(steel enforced walls) that can't be eaten. Otherwise they could be a bit uncontrollable!!

->noman

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08-19-2003 at 10:32 PM
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zex20913
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Diggers and serpents can't be eaten, according to about midway through the first paragraph.

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08-19-2003 at 10:35 PM
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Oneiromancer
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zex20913 wrote:
1. What about if the digger gets to the one-square-wide-entrance to a room? Would it dig through the walls to survive?


You mean the walls on either side of the entrance? Yes. This would be just like being caught agains itself and a wall.

2. I don't like the ability for toggling doors/reopening them. While I grant that it does add much puzzle potential, it takes away Beethro's ability to direct the monsters how he wants them.

Yeah, I don't like it either, but it is an option.

3. How would the digging be represented graphically, if it were up to you?

I forgot about this...obviously there should be some graphical indication, but we don't want to make a set of 5 new wall graphics while the wall is being broken down. The easiest solution would be to not change the wall graphics until the turn before the wall breaks, at which point the wall becomes a normal breakable wall (and if the digger then moves away for whatever reason Beethro can break the wall like normal). This is like the one turn warning for a tar mother. A slightly more graphics intensive version would be to let a wall have one more graphic, which is in between the two extremes. You still can't tell how close it is to being broken, but at least you can direct a digger there if a previous one died before finishing the job.

4. Should eating a monster make it grow a space?

I thought about this, but it might be too difficult to program. Also, then this becomes like that Snakes and Apples game. :D

5. I assume that "just like serpents" means it can't go over arrows or scrolls.

Well, not being able to go over arrows makes sence (it can't eat a force) but perhaps it could destroy scrolls...but it's no big deal if it doesn't.

6. I like the tar eating ability. A movement function for it would be to go for the "breakable" parts of the tar, unless it has to get a curvy part.

Yes, just like it goes for a breakable wall.

7. I'm assuming red, green, and blue doors would be things that it couldn't effect.

Sorry, yes, that is the case.

8. Interesting thought: If the digger ate a brain, would it be permanently brained?

No, I don't think that should be the case, but that is a cool idea for a new monster...it can eat another monster to gain its abilities...this might be a way to simulate "boss" monsters...heh, cool...let me think about this one.

I think that's it.

I don't know how you come up with so many questions...it shows you actually read and think about these ideas. Which is a good thing!

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams
08-19-2003 at 10:38 PM
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Scott
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These things sound pretty hard to kill though. The 2 ways of killing a serpent mainly used, getting them stuck in a dead end 1 square wide and getting them stuck on other monsters are out. Leaving well actually I can't see whats left. U shaped doors 1 wide orbs in that shape not really much chance to kill them.
08-20-2003 at 08:04 AM
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noman
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1 wide platforms with with nothing else than endless deeps around.

And iron walls.

And a very wide wall much more longer than serpent/5

I think this monster would be beloved in lvl9, it could destroy the walls blocking beethro from a one man army trip.

->noman

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08-20-2003 at 08:15 AM
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Oneiromancer
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Scott wrote:
These things sound pretty hard to kill though. The 2 ways of killing a serpent mainly used, getting them stuck in a dead end 1 square wide and getting them stuck on other monsters are out. Leaving well actually I can't see whats left. U shaped doors 1 wide orbs in that shape not really much chance to kill them.

Well, like noman said, all you need is a wall thicker than the digger length divided by 5. Pits will also kill them. I'm not yet sure if I want monsters to kill them or not.

I was just thinking of puzzles where you have several closed off rooms, and you have to guide the digger into the correct dead end to be able to get through all of them without the digger dying. These would not be very common creatures...they would be specialized, like the spider.

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams
08-20-2003 at 04:47 PM
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