trick
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Random thought: If this really is such a big problem, maybe it would be worth thinking about having a (Pre)Announcements board ?

Huh, I'm actually not sure if I'm serious or not.

~ Gerry

tokyokid
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Oneiromancer wrote:
I just wonder if people are going to start modding the Bar down because it is pre-announcing TCB...

No, he's merely doing a public service...

Elfstone
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ummm . . this thread reminds me a bit of midges.

. . or rather, something I said about midges

. . in response to a rather heated cyber-conversation which took place a while ago on my writing site.

If I can remember what I said about the midges, I'll maybe post it here


. . . that is, once the down-modding has finished

. . I really don't want to be down-modded

Elf(treading-gently)stone

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UrAvgAzn
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Elf, check my speech a little bit down this topic. If you don't really want to visit it, I quoted the important text.

So remember, even though the rank point system is a fun thing, don't let it get in the way of you posting what you think. Because I often hear, 'If I post this, I'll get modded down'. Well if YOU think it is important, than YOU post it. Just make sure it's appropiate though . Well, the point is, rank points are just there for inspiration for the great things you guys do.

I really want to hear your view on the matter, Elf. And if anyone mods you down, I swear I'll mod you back up until I run out of mod points (well, I have 50ish right now). So please post it...

Keep posting,

____________________________
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Such grief, such joy, to live at all."
- T.A. Barron, The Lost Years of Merlin

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[Last edited by UrAvgAzn at 11-14-2006 11:36 PM]

Syntax
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I really thought pre-announcements had been covered in another thread. The conclusion was that they were ok, some people seeing the fun side, others not, but no official stance on the matter.

Please just ignore this thread if you don't care what larrymurk has to say. I personally am looking forward to it (despite not even being keen on TCB spoilers or the bar). I thought the message, as written, felt canonical... "I'm a master delver and I heard a rumour... I'll let you know once I can confirm it. Just a few more roaches to smite, and I'll be in the throne room."

So... group hug anyone?

Mattcrampy
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I think it's pretty clear that people are sick of preannouncements. If you want to get people excited, you have to actually give them something, and it should answer the question 'why should we care?' If you don't answer that question, you can't be surprised when people don't care.

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Syntax
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If people don't care, why post?
I don't care about quite a few boards...

agaricus5
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Oneiromancer wrote:
I just wonder if people are going to start modding the Bar down because it is pre-announcing TCB...

Game on,

I think the difference here is that preannouncing TCB is of equal value to everyone here and isn't intrusive; DROD is DROD, after all. When the preannouncement is person-specific and posted on a board which is not necessarily the best place for it, it makes that person socially advantaged over the rest of us for doing it (i.e. the person is saying "look at me!" and getting away with it on a board that normally treats everyone with equal importance), and clutters the board up with what are essentially adverts and critical reception.

My opinion on this issue, as I've said before (but it wasn't read, unfortunately) is this:

Either we only have preannouncements at most on the General board, and everyone is free to make them without criteria, prejudice or stigmatisation, or we could adopt Gerry's idea and have a separate board for this, again without criteria, prejudice or stigmatisation. Otherwise, allowing some people to post and others not, purely based on perceived Forum "respect" or "worthiness" as a measure of why we should devote attention to something, is unfair. In which case, no-one (with the exception of maybe the dev team) should have the ability to post a preannouncement here.

Let's be democratic about the whole thing, please, and not just do whatever we want regardless of other people.

Also, does anyone think a vote on this issue would be helpful in resolving it?

Syntax wrote:
I really thought pre-announcements had been covered in another thread. The conclusion was that they were ok, some people seeing the fun side, others not, but no official stance on the matter.

Please just ignore this thread if you don't care what larrymurk has to say. I personally am looking forward to it (despite not even being keen on TCB spoilers or the bar). I thought the message, as written, felt canonical... "I'm a master delver and I heard a rumour... I'll let you know once I can confirm it. Just a few more roaches to smite, and I'll be in the throne room."

So... group hug anyone?

I'd like to join you in a group hug, but I just want to say first that simply letting the matter drop is not going to solve the implicit social problem we may have here. Imagine if the moderating system was biased strongly towards forum veterans; would ignoring it necessarily make the problem go away?

Okay, okay, I've finished now:



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Syntax
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My last point on this thread... larrymurk's topic made me intrigued regardless of anything. I saw it as one of those quirks. The bar was one, and larrymurk's post could/will be the next. Who knows?

Anyway... enough from me.

UrAvgAzn
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Still can't wait for Elf to post. But on topic, I really thought that what Larry did was very mean. Please tell us what this 'Message From the King' is...


Keep posting,

____________________________
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Such grief, such joy, to live at all."
- T.A. Barron, The Lost Years of Merlin

agaricus5
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UrAvgAzn wrote:
Elf, check my speech a little bit down this topic. If you don't really want to visit it, I quoted the important text.

So remember, even though the rank point system is a fun thing, don't let it get in the way of you posting what you think. Because I often hear, 'If I post this, I'll get modded down'. Well if YOU think it is important, than YOU post it. Just make sure it's appropiate though . Well, the point is, rank points are just there for inspiration for the great things you guys do.

I really want to hear your view on the matter, Elf. And if anyone mods you down, I swear I'll mod you back up until I run out of mod points (well, I have 50ish right now). So please post it...

I just spotted this, and although I'm not the person you were asking for a reply from, I have seen this come up before in the mod system, and just want to throw my spare change into the matter too.

Basically, I only half agree with you about the mod point usage. They are there only for moderation, and not as an absolute control over what you say, I agree. However, the system is here for a reason, and its purpose is primarily to make you think about whether what you are posting is insightful, adds to the discussion, is funny, or otherwise positive. In a similar way, negatives should be used for the opposite reasons (but sparingly). So, if what you want to say is relevant, would add to the discussion (even if only to say that we're nitpicking about trivialities), and you can justify it, then don't fear negative mods, since they won't be applicable, and would be quickly reversed. However, if you just want to say "what you think is important" without due consideration for whether it really is important or relevant to the discussion (e.g. you say that you are hating this argument, but don't give a reason), then it would be reasonable to expect some negative criticism (and possibly negative mods) back towards you.

It's like the difference between saying "I hate DROD", and "I'm not enjoying DROD at the moment because of the lack of checkpoints".

Edit: Is it 02:00 already? I'm going to regret posting this tomorrow morning!

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[Last edited by agaricus5 at 11-15-2006 02:08 AM]

eytanz
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You know, I'm not the biggest fan of pre-announcements, and especially not of vague ones that don't tell you what they pre-announce, but I don't understand why a lot of people are condemning Larry for pre-announcing a pre-announcement. How do you know that's what he's doing? I mean, he might be, but there are a lot of other possibilities as well.

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RoboBob3000
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Dear everybody,

Chill.

I liked it much better when there was just a pre-announcement thread to ignore. Now there's a pre-announcement turned pre-announcement debate thread to half-heartedly skim over. I will hereby shift colors to return focus to the actual topic at hand.



Wow, I wonder what this message could be. With Larry, this message could be any number of things. Obviously he's a prolific architect, both on his own accord and of SmS fame. Perhaps he's hinting at a new personal release, or maybe an SmS release? Maybe he's even become so revered among the Caravel team that be's been chosen to relay some terribly important info about TCB? Beta-testing shoulder-tapping, perhaps?

Oh shoot, I bet he's waiting for the proper reception. Have we all forgotten that this is the king we're talking about here?

*kneels*



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NiroZ
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eytanz wrote:
You know, I'm not the biggest fan of pre-announcements, and especially not of vague ones that don't tell you what they pre-announce, but I don't understand why a lot of people are condemning Larry for pre-announcing a pre-announcement. How do you know that's what he's doing? I mean, he might be, but there are a lot of other possibilities as well.

Exactly my point.
How do we even know that it will be another pre-announcement.

zex20913
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Sure there are other possibilities...but I feel like this is a 2-ary preannouncement. They make me feel like the butt end of those "How do you keep an idiot in suspense" jokes. Whether Larry's doing this intentionally or not, I don't like it, and I don't want people to think it's okay to preannounce preannouncements.

It's like saying "Find out more about the news at 11 at 6:05!" Nobody is going to watch at 6:05 for that, and the people who caught the blurb are going to wonder why they didn't just say "Find out about the news at 11!".

I'd condemn anybody who I thought was double preannouncing, it just happens to be Larry here.

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NiroZ
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zex20913 wrote:
Sure there are other possibilities...but I feel like this is a 2-ary preannouncement. They make me feel like the butt end of those "How do you keep an idiot in suspense" jokes. Whether Larry's doing this intentionally or not, I don't like it, and I don't want people to think it's okay to preannounce preannouncements.

It's like saying "Find out more about the news at 11 at 6:05!" Nobody is going to watch at 6:05 for that, and the people who caught the blurb are going to wonder why they didn't just say "Find out about the news at 11!".

I'd condemn anybody who I thought was double preannouncing, it just happens to be Larry here.

But why not wait until it was confirmed?

zex20913
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But why not wait until it was confirmed?

Because by then preannouncements of preannouncements would be termed acceptable.

Edit: I didn't notice the 2 posts directly above my previous post, which was a response to eytanz. I still stand by everything I said. I don't want to have to skim over more preannouncement threads. Just do it, don't tell us you're going to do it.

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[Last edited by zex20913 at 11-15-2006 04:14 AM]

NiroZ
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But how do you know it this is a preannouncement of a preannouncement? Yes, circumstantial evidence suggests that, but is that really enough to start complaining and modding down?

For all we know, it could be a preview of TCB done by larrymurk.

Doom
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Whether it's about TCB or anything else, that doesn't make superfluous preannouncements any better.

I'm somewhat fine with preannouncements when they're not too vague. This breaks that rule. I would greatly prefer it if Larry had just skipped posting this, and made a proper announcement at the final date. I'm not really sure what people who make these are trying to accomplish anyway. Hype? Not this way, at least.

Pre-preannouncements just take it further, and are pretty much a waste of time. Incremental downmods for each further pre^x -announcement for that... well, maybe not, since the point should've gone through before that and I'd be wasting my mod points.

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[Last edited by Doom at 11-15-2006 06:59 AM]

mrimer
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Hmm...this could have been a thread where after Larry's post, one or two people wrote, "Okay, cool." and then it stopped there. But now we're caught up in talking about the metaphysics of making small-talk. Ah, well. I'm having fun.

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Niccus
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As far as I can see, any larger n of pre^n-announcing would only be a sort of a joke. It would never seriously happen.
On that note, I don't like pre-announcements sans substance.

mrimer wrote:
But now we're caught up in talking about the metaphysics of making small-talk.

Chalk one up for making small-talk of metaphysics of making small-talk.

Briareos
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Doom wrote:
Incremental downmods for each further pre^x -announcement for that...

"Retracted Pre-Announcement of Doom", anyone?

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masonjason
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I'm surprised by the amount of social tension in this thread - you'll occasionally get this kind of conflict on any forum where all-pervasive politeness is the norm I guess. But here's my take.

Agaricus is taking it as axiomatic that the forum ought to be democratic. But why shouldn't Larrymurk be able to get away with posting things that a new poster wouldn't? My answer is that he should, because he's repeatedly proven that he won't abuse that leeway, and I'm shocked by the number of people who don't simply trust that what he's pre-announcing is in some significant way worth pre-announcing.

And do you really care if there are a few pre-announcements per month on the general board? If you don't like them, that's at most five seconds of your time wasted. If you do, it adds to the whole "eager anticipation of new info" atmosphere that I think is the very essence of this forum, and that's got to be a good thing.

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michthro
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masonjason wrote:
...it adds to the whole "eager anticipation of new info" atmosphere that I think is the very essence of this forum, and that's got to be a good thing.

Exactly. That's why I'm so surprised at the reaction. My immediate reaction was: "Oh, TCB spoiler coming up. New and fun way to create suspense." Isn't that how everyone reads it? With all the excitement about TCB I'd have thought so. A message from the king fits right in with the whole atmosphere of anticipation. Stefan, who knows what it's about, even dropped a strong hint that people are misinterpreting this. Is everyone *so* fed up with pre-announcements that they can no longer see things for what they are? If you're complaining about being kept in suspense, then, really... Suspense is a big part of the TCB anticipation, and everyone seems to love it.

Of course, I could be wrong, and Larry doesn't come forth with a TCB spoiler. If so, you can mod him into oblivion, but wait and see. When there are many possibilities, why assume the worst? I'd have thought that everyone would be begging Larry to have mercy and spill the beans, not even considering the remote possibilty that it's just another pre-announcement, let alone jump to that conclusion.

Stephen4Louise
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This is a pre-announcement that my next post is entirely made up by myself and should not be attributed to the bar!

Stephen4Louise
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File: pre.jpg (16.1 KB)
Downloaded 274 times.
License: Public Domain

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[Last edited by Stephen4Louise at 11-15-2006 10:37 AM]

Briareos
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Stephen4Louise wrote:

Oodles of clicks on the bar say that one's an imposter...

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Stephen4Louise
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Briareos wrote:

Stephen4Louise wrote:

Oodles of clicks on the bar say that one's an imposter...

My previous post also says that it's an imposter!

Briareos
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Stephen4Louise wrote:
My previous post also says that it's an imposter!

Ah, but who reads (and, moreover, believes) pre-announcements anymore these days?

(Also, what better excuse than this is there to click the bar a few times in a row? )

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[Last edited by Briareos at 11-15-2006 12:10 PM]

Doom
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masonjason wrote:
And do you really care if there are a few pre-announcements per month on the general board?

As long as they're decently made and announce something actually worth announcing, they may be fun ways to build up some excitement. Not what I'm seeing here, sorry.

The fact that it's made by Larry doesn't change anything. On the contrary, I expect to see more style from him. Maybe I'm wrong and preannouncing nothing can in some way lead to something more cool than better ways of announcing, but I don't see how. I hope Larry proves me wrong.