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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : Contests : Death to Death! Poll (A multiple question poll)
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RankEntryAverageStandard Deviation
1Entry #5 - Doom7.33333333333332.0548046676563
2Entry #9 - michthro6.88888888888892.7666443551086
3Entry #8 - Krishh6.66666666666672.2607766610418
4Entry #1 - Banjooie6.55555555555562.8717439962934
5Entry #12 - Ostegolectrlc6.22222222222222.6988795114425
5Entry #4 - Dali6.22222222222222.8196838978777
7Entry #19 - Tuttle5.88888888888892.3778816176703
7Entry #2 - Beef Row5.88888888888892.4241582476968
9Entry #16 - techant5.77777777777782.0427529234278
10Entry #20 - tyrion5.66666666666672.2110831935703
11Entry #14 - skell5.55555555555562.1659542988464
12Entry #3 - Chaco5.33333333333332.2110831935703
13Entry #18 - Tooth and Nail5.22222222222222.5724082006201
14Entry #15 - Someone Else5.11111111111112.3778816176703
15Entry #10 - Muiff4.88888888888891.6629588385662
16Entry #7 - jbluestein4.44444444444442.2166597048067
16Entry #13 - Plichard VIII4.44444444444442.2166597048067
18Entry #17 - The spitemaster4.33333333333331.2472191289246
19Entry #6 - Jason3.77777777777783.0469576001782
20Entry #11 - NiroZ3.22222222222221.8724777273725
Entry #1 - Banjooie
12345678910
Average Vote 6.5555555555556
Standard Deviation 2.8717439962934

Entry #2 - Beef Row
12345678910
Average Vote 5.8888888888889
Standard Deviation 2.4241582476968

Entry #3 - Chaco
12345678910
Average Vote 5.3333333333333
Standard Deviation 2.2110831935703

Entry #4 - Dali
12345678910
Average Vote 6.2222222222222
Standard Deviation 2.8196838978777

Entry #5 - Doom
12345678910
Average Vote 7.3333333333333
Standard Deviation 2.0548046676563

Entry #6 - Jason
12345678910
Average Vote 3.7777777777778
Standard Deviation 3.0469576001782

Entry #7 - jbluestein
12345678910
Average Vote 4.4444444444444
Standard Deviation 2.2166597048067

Entry #8 - Krishh
12345678910
Average Vote 6.6666666666667
Standard Deviation 2.2607766610418

Entry #9 - michthro
12345678910
Average Vote 6.8888888888889
Standard Deviation 2.7666443551086

Entry #10 - Muiff
12345678910
Average Vote 4.8888888888889
Standard Deviation 1.6629588385662

Entry #11 - NiroZ
12345678910
Average Vote 3.2222222222222
Standard Deviation 1.8724777273725

Entry #12 - Ostegolectrlc
12345678910
Average Vote 6.2222222222222
Standard Deviation 2.6988795114425

Entry #13 - Plichard VIII
12345678910
Average Vote 4.4444444444444
Standard Deviation 2.2166597048067

Entry #14 - skell
12345678910
Average Vote 5.5555555555556
Standard Deviation 2.1659542988464

Entry #15 - Someone Else
12345678910
Average Vote 5.1111111111111
Standard Deviation 2.3778816176703

Entry #16 - techant
12345678910
Average Vote 5.7777777777778
Standard Deviation 2.0427529234278

Entry #17 - The spitemaster
12345678910
Average Vote 4.3333333333333
Standard Deviation 1.2472191289246

Entry #18 - Tooth and Nail
12345678910
Average Vote 5.2222222222222
Standard Deviation 2.5724082006201

Entry #19 - Tuttle
12345678910
Average Vote 5.8888888888889
Standard Deviation 2.3778816176703

Entry #20 - tyrion
12345678910
Average Vote 5.6666666666667
Standard Deviation 2.2110831935703
Total Votes 18 100%
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coppro
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I meant in the future, not yet.

Just a warning, y'know?
05-23-2006 at 03:33 AM
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Tooth and Nail
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Yeah, lets keep it fair guys. I'm gonna vote 10 for myself obviously, but I'm also gonna rate everyone else's the way I feel they should be rated.

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05-23-2006 at 04:38 AM
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Ostegolectr1c
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Sorry. Undo my vote, as i can see it's pretty unfair to vote myself 10 and everyone else 1.
After i finish all holds, i'll vote properly.

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05-23-2006 at 09:04 AM
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icon Re: Death to Death! Poll (0)  
I posted my demos on the other post or whatever it is called so I will post it here again so that you all don't miss them if you want them.

There seems to be some discussion about if all the rooms can be solved. I know that all my rooms can be beat. Also you can beat the level and leave. And I stuck to the rules so if anyone thinks I didn't please let me know before you vote. I want to lose cuz you didn't like my puzzles not cuz you thought it couldn't be solved or accessed.

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05-23-2006 at 09:14 AM
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Pilchard VIII
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Looked at the average votes without voting and found to be joint third. Didn't see that one coming. Thought mine got disqualified! :w00t

Edit : Perhaps I should have voted for myself...

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[Last edited by Pilchard VIII at 05-23-2006 03:17 PM]
05-23-2006 at 09:45 AM
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Ezlo
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Well, yours was disqualified earlier. But under the new rules you can do whatever you want, so I kept it.
05-23-2006 at 11:58 AM
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NiroZ
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can we please make it that the hold makers MUST vote 10 for them, 1 for everyone else?

otherwise I'll feel guilty for what I'm about to do...

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05-23-2006 at 12:06 PM
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Ezlo
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No, try to vote for what you would give a entry if it was submitted to the holds board. If you really really REALLY don't want to play all the holds, then don't vote. It's as simple as that.
05-23-2006 at 12:08 PM
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Oneiromancer
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Well, a hold entrant is supposed to vote 10 for themself. What they vote for the other people is their business--as long as they do it on purpose (it's easy to accidentally vote 1 if you submit your vote too early).

Apparently he feels that no one else satisfied the requirements of the contest but himself. Maybe he's justified, I don't know.

Advertising an unpopular position is an odd move, though.

Game on,

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05-23-2006 at 12:40 PM
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techant
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quote:
NiroZ wrote:
can we please make it that the hold makers MUST vote 10 for them, 1 for everyone else?

otherwise I'll feel guilty for what I'm about to do...


If we did that everyone would get the same score. :?

My usual score system is to think mine is a 10 and then rate everyone backwards from 10. With 20 entries that is easier. I rake the 2 tops that would get 10 and then the two that would get 9 ect..
This works for me unless there are some really good or really bad ones then I have to fudge a bit with it.

So far I have only gotten to review them in the build mode and to play a few rooms of nuthouse. :w00t At this rate I don't know how I will be able to vote fairly unless I play a few rooms only of each one. :weep

This is when I wish I had as much time to play as to make. I sure wish we could take more time to play them even if it overlapped next months contest. It just doesn't seem fair with all the work everyone put it to them. Or am I just too slow a player and the rest of you are already halfway through them all. :~(

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05-23-2006 at 12:46 PM
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Schik
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quote:
Ostegolectr1c wrote:
Sorry. Undo my vote, as i can see it's pretty unfair to vote myself 10 and everyone else 1.
After i finish all holds, i'll vote properly.
I've unvoted for you. You're free to re-vote when you've finished all of the holds.

NiroZ, though you stated you've done the same intentionally, I'll give you the same offer of unvoting so you can re-vote fairly. I mean seriously... would you really want to win that way?

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05-23-2006 at 02:24 PM
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skell
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What a shame. I will not be able to play through it all, because I'm going to a three-day-long trip tomorrow... :) But problably the voting will take longer than that. But actually I'm to impatient and I will look at the results right now - I'm just curious about my hold (But I'm sure I will not get any prize... :( ). So if this is possible, and it will not be rules breaking, I will be grateful, if somebody will undo my "Results showing" because I really would like to play through it all and be able to vote. Well, pnly if the contest voting will take longer than 4-5 days :).

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05-23-2006 at 03:54 PM
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Oneiromancer
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quote:
skell wrote:
So if this is possible, and it will not be rules breaking, I will be grateful, if somebody will undo my "Results showing" because I really would like to play through it all and be able to vote.

Um...no. That defeats the entire purpose, and we don't want to be setting precedents here. Not voting at all affects the results much less than what these other guys have been doing.

And besides...I'm the only one who is allowed to take advantage of Schik to get things modified on the forum! ME! :P

Game on,

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05-23-2006 at 04:58 PM
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Banjooie
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While we're all being honest, I will admit I voted a LITTLE hastily...

Gave myself a 10, and pretty much everybody else arbitrarily high numbers, because I wanted to see how the voting was going without losing the chance to 10 myself. :(
05-23-2006 at 05:35 PM
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jbluestein
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A couple of Items:

Ezlo -- It would be cool if the actual Hold name somehow was noted on the poll question, because it's not immediately evident from looking at the Holds themselves, that, for example, 'Halph's First Hold' is Banjooie's entry. (I know it is, because I've been keeping notes, but it would be nice if I could just see the correlation directly.)

Otherwise:

Entry 1 (Banjooie): Completed.
Entry 2 (Beef Row): Ouch. Hard hard hard. Stuck on the third room.
Entry 3 (Chaco): Completed. I did find a way to kill a monster in one room in this hold
Entry 4 (Dali): I am pretty sure that this hold is not completable. There appear to be no triggers to open the doors by the 'Exit Room' scroll. Up to that point, though, lots of fun.
Entry 5 (Doom): Working on it...more to do.

Entries 6-20: Well, it's going to take me a little while. I feel bad for the people in the higher numbers, because if folks just go through them sequentially it seems like there's a good chance that the later entries won't get as much attention as the earlier ones.

That said, I've been really wowed by some of what I've seen so far -- looking forward to the others!

Josh (aka The Guy Who Did Entry #7)




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05-23-2006 at 06:16 PM
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Banjooie
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Geez, 7 votes and a lot of people seem to be voting 1s on everything. Weird.
05-23-2006 at 06:24 PM
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jbluestein
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quote:
Banjooie wrote:
Geez, 7 votes and a lot of people seem to be voting 1s on everything. Weird.


I wonder if it has to do with people thinking they can come back and change their votes later? By default, all of the ratings are set to 0. If I, for example, know that I have to rate my own hold 10, I might set it to 10 and click without realizing that I've just rated every other hold a 1 without actually intending to.

Having played about a quarter of the holds at this point, I can't imagine *any* of them actually deserving a 1 rating.

Not even yours, Banjooie. ;)

(OK, actually, I liked yours a lot.)



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05-23-2006 at 06:29 PM
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jbluestein
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Trying to set a record for most threads-started-in-a-single-topic-in-one-day:

What do people do with holds that they can't finish, not because the hold itself is unfinishable, but because they just can't figure out the puzzles? I'd like to be able to rate such holds fairly, but it doesn't seem likely that I'll be able to completely solve every entry -- some are quite difficult.



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05-23-2006 at 06:34 PM
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coppro
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icon Re: Death to Death! Poll (-1)  
Schik, I strongly suggest modifying it so that if you vote, the following things happen:

You can see the results of that poll ONLY and your other ones don't get voted. Or else just add a Undecided default option that the system ignores. First one is nicer, second one is easier.

Hurry up. This happened last time, and before that, and before that, and...
05-23-2006 at 06:42 PM
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Krishh
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Well, I for example will rate any hold where you can clear a room (not just kill a mosnter, clear the entire room and leave) and still complete the hold afterwards a 1. And I already have 6 holds like that. I'll give smaller point deductions for breraking other rules, but an error as grievous as this really defeats the entire purpose of the contest.
05-23-2006 at 06:48 PM
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Doom
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quote:
Krishh wrote:
Well, I for example will rate any hold where you can clear a room (not just kill a mosnter, clear the entire room and leave) and still complete the hold afterwards a 1. And I already have 6 holds like that. I'll give smaller point deductions for breraking other rules, but an error as grievous as this really defeats the entire purpose of the contest.
Even if it's unintentional? I don't think michtro's hold deserves a 1...

This just sounds unnecessarily harsh to me.

[Last edited by Doom at 05-23-2006 07:03 PM]
05-23-2006 at 07:03 PM
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Banjooie
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If it's possible anywhere in mine, I assume it's doable in the first room--is this the case, or?

Edit: Are we discussing

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Doom: Why would you /intentionally/ make a room which you could clear safely for this contest?

[Last edited by Banjooie at 05-23-2006 07:05 PM]
05-23-2006 at 07:03 PM
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jbluestein
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quote:
Krishh wrote:
Well, I for example will rate any hold where you can clear a room (not just kill a mosnter, clear the entire room and leave) and still complete the hold afterwards a 1. And I already have 6 holds like that. I'll give smaller point deductions for breraking other rules, but an error as grievous as this really defeats the entire purpose of the contest.


How much space are you allotting for style/design? Because while I can certainly see marking down a hold that allows monster killing, I should think one would want to distinguish between a flawed entry (one in which rules of contest are broken, intentionally or unintentionally) and a weak entry (which may conform to the rules but is not very much fun).



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05-23-2006 at 07:06 PM
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Doom
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quote:
Banjooie wrote:
Doom: Why would you /intentionally/ make a room which you could clear safely for this contest?
Okay, okay, maybe that sounded silly. :P

Maybe trying would be a better word. If there's been obviously effort to prevent the most obvious tricks, it shouldn't be so serious.

Wow, that's NOT the room I was talking about in michtro's hold. It was 1N1E...
05-23-2006 at 07:12 PM
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Krishh
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Well, for one thing, if the room was designed to kill the monsters based on the vagueness of the rules like that one room in Banjooies hold, I'm not going to go too harsh on him (I haven't completed the hold yet but it seems to be one of the best, so that death might mean a 9 instead of a 10), but I thought that playtesting the holds was one of the challanges of this contest, and unintended solutions are a reality you have to face. In fact, to be fair, if someone gives me a demo of killing a monster in my hold and leaving the room, I'll vote my hold a 1 and give that person 5 rank points as a bonus.
05-23-2006 at 07:18 PM
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stigant
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In Banjooie's, 3N1E, where are you supposed to get the roach to? I thought I was supposed to guide it to the bottom empty square, but that doesn't seem to do it.

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05-23-2006 at 07:37 PM
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jbluestein
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quote:
stigant wrote:
In Banjooie's, 3N1E, where are you supposed to get the roach to? I thought I was supposed to guide it to the bottom empty square, but that doesn't seem to do it.


If you're talking about the room with the fireworks (?) background, guiding the roach to the empty box surrounded by force arrows at the bottom of that area did it for me...

Josh

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05-23-2006 at 07:41 PM
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Doom
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quote:
jbluestein wrote:
quote:
stigant wrote:
In Banjooie's, 3N1E, where are you supposed to get the roach to? I thought I was supposed to guide it to the bottom empty square, but that doesn't seem to do it.


If you're talking about the room with the fireworks (?) background, guiding the roach to the empty box surrounded by force arrows at the bottom of that area did it for me...

Josh
Actually, it didn't. Close, but not quite. The hold is anyone-edit, so it's easy to check.

Wait for monster at... "12,23-16,23"
= The five force arrows at the bottom.
05-23-2006 at 07:44 PM
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stigant
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I've done that... are you supposed to keep it in the box somehow (rather than letting it go down to the very bottom? Halph just sits at the top.

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05-23-2006 at 07:44 PM
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michthro
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icon Re: Death to Death! Poll (+5)  
Ouch! I thought 1N1E may be a bit risky, but I can't believe I missed that in 1W. All I had to do was put a door there instead of a trapdoor.

Krishh, don't you think you're being a little unreasonable? I put a lot of effort into my hold, and I did test it very carefully, but everyone makes mistakes. I don't think it's fair to completely ignore everything else. Take 1W in my hold: I thought it was quite a good idea. Does that really count for nothing? So I spoiled it by making a small mistake. Do you honestly feel I might as well have submitted complete garbage? How about the fact that I went to a lot of trouble to use a different non-scripted idea in every room? If I wanted to, I could also make up my own rules and rate you 1 on the grounds that you essentially use the same idea twice (the serpent/roach combination).

And whether a room can be cleared or just one monster killed is irrelevant. If an author made a mistake, it's going to be largely a matter of luck whether the result is "catastrophic" or not.

I think holds should be rated according to various criteria, with flaws being only one of them. So sure, a mistake is a mistake, but I think rating a hold 1 over a mistake is extremely harsh. Have some perspective. There's a lot more to it. Subtract a point or two, but really...

In fact, I have to say I'm disappointed at the lack of sportsmanship displayed in this contest. I don't have to explain to you why my hold doesn't deserve a 1 - you know that, but it suits you to cling to your excuse of "what the contest is all about", which is utter rot. The contest is certainly not all about playtesting.

Btw, if that's how it's going to be then the contest is between BeefRow and Doom, with you third. All other holds are flawed. It's particularly interesting that the other big anti-flaw proponent, NiroZ, submitted a hold in which at least 5 of the 9 rooms are flawed. In three of them you can even continue onto the next room after killing a monster.

Thanks, Doom. The rest of you who agree with NiroZ and Krishh: You should be ashamed of yourselves! Doom, a 17-year old, has more character and sense than the lot of you combined.

Yeah, yeah. I tried counting to ten slowly. Doesn't work.
05-23-2006 at 07:59 PM
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