coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1308
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I meant in the future, not yet.

Just a warning, y'know?

Tooth and Nail
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 39
Registered: 04-20-2006
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Yeah, lets keep it fair guys. I'm gonna vote 10 for myself obviously, but I'm also gonna rate everyone else's the way I feel they should be rated.

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Ostegolectr1c
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 116
Registered: 03-14-2005
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Sorry. Undo my vote, as i can see it's pretty unfair to vote myself 10 and everyone else 1.
After i finish all holds, i'll vote properly.

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techant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 854
Registered: 06-08-2004
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File: techant_hold_demos.zip (12.3 KB)
Downloaded 44 times.
License: Public Domain

I posted my demos on the other post or whatever it is called so I will post it here again so that you all don't miss them if you want them.

There seems to be some discussion about if all the rooms can be solved. I know that all my rooms can be beat. Also you can beat the level and leave. And I stuck to the rules so if anyone thinks I didn't please let me know before you vote. I want to lose cuz you didn't like my puzzles not cuz you thought it couldn't be solved or accessed.

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Pilchard VIII
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 392
Registered: 01-21-2006
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Looked at the average votes without voting and found to be joint third. Didn't see that one coming. Thought mine got disqualified!

Edit : Perhaps I should have voted for myself...

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The DROD Dragon

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[Last edited by Pilchard VIII at 05-23-2006 03:17 PM]

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
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Well, yours was disqualified earlier. But under the new rules you can do whatever you want, so I kept it.

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
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can we please make it that the hold makers MUST vote 10 for them, 1 for everyone else?

otherwise I'll feel guilty for what I'm about to do...

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
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No, try to vote for what you would give a entry if it was submitted to the holds board. If you really really REALLY don't want to play all the holds, then don't vote. It's as simple as that.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Well, a hold entrant is supposed to vote 10 for themself. What they vote for the other people is their business--as long as they do it on purpose (it's easy to accidentally vote 1 if you submit your vote too early).

Apparently he feels that no one else satisfied the requirements of the contest but himself. Maybe he's justified, I don't know.

Advertising an unpopular position is an odd move, though.

Game on,

____________________________
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techant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 854
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NiroZ wrote:
can we please make it that the hold makers MUST vote 10 for them, 1 for everyone else?

otherwise I'll feel guilty for what I'm about to do...

If we did that everyone would get the same score.

My usual score system is to think mine is a 10 and then rate everyone backwards from 10. With 20 entries that is easier. I rake the 2 tops that would get 10 and then the two that would get 9 ect..
This works for me unless there are some really good or really bad ones then I have to fudge a bit with it.

So far I have only gotten to review them in the build mode and to play a few rooms of nuthouse. At this rate I don't know how I will be able to vote fairly unless I play a few rooms only of each one.

This is when I wish I had as much time to play as to make. I sure wish we could take more time to play them even if it overlapped next months contest. It just doesn't seem fair with all the work everyone put it to them. Or am I just too slow a player and the rest of you are already halfway through them all.

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Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Ostegolectr1c wrote:
Sorry. Undo my vote, as i can see it's pretty unfair to vote myself 10 and everyone else 1.
After i finish all holds, i'll vote properly.

I've unvoted for you. You're free to re-vote when you've finished all of the holds.

NiroZ, though you stated you've done the same intentionally, I'll give you the same offer of unvoting so you can re-vote fairly. I mean seriously... would you really want to win that way?

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skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3734
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What a shame. I will not be able to play through it all, because I'm going to a three-day-long trip tomorrow... But problably the voting will take longer than that. But actually I'm to impatient and I will look at the results right now - I'm just curious about my hold (But I'm sure I will not get any prize... ). So if this is possible, and it will not be rules breaking, I will be grateful, if somebody will undo my "Results showing" because I really would like to play through it all and be able to vote. Well, pnly if the contest voting will take longer than 4-5 days .

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Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
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skell wrote:
So if this is possible, and it will not be rules breaking, I will be grateful, if somebody will undo my "Results showing" because I really would like to play through it all and be able to vote.

Um...no. That defeats the entire purpose, and we don't want to be setting precedents here. Not voting at all affects the results much less than what these other guys have been doing.

And besides...I'm the only one who is allowed to take advantage of Schik to get things modified on the forum! ME!

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

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Registered: 12-12-2004
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While we're all being honest, I will admit I voted a LITTLE hastily...

Gave myself a 10, and pretty much everybody else arbitrarily high numbers, because I wanted to see how the voting was going without losing the chance to 10 myself.

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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A couple of Items:

Ezlo -- It would be cool if the actual Hold name somehow was noted on the poll question, because it's not immediately evident from looking at the Holds themselves, that, for example, 'Halph's First Hold' is Banjooie's entry. (I know it is, because I've been keeping notes, but it would be nice if I could just see the correlation directly.)

Otherwise:

Entry 1 (Banjooie): Completed.
Entry 2 (Beef Row): Ouch. Hard hard hard. Stuck on the third room.
Entry 3 (Chaco): Completed. I did find a way to kill a monster in one room in this hold
Entry 4 (Dali): I am pretty sure that this hold is not completable. There appear to be no triggers to open the doors by the 'Exit Room' scroll. Up to that point, though, lots of fun.
Entry 5 (Doom): Working on it...more to do.

Entries 6-20: Well, it's going to take me a little while. I feel bad for the people in the higher numbers, because if folks just go through them sequentially it seems like there's a good chance that the later entries won't get as much attention as the earlier ones.

That said, I've been really wowed by some of what I've seen so far -- looking forward to the others!

Josh (aka The Guy Who Did Entry #7)




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Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
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Geez, 7 votes and a lot of people seem to be voting 1s on everything. Weird.

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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Banjooie wrote:
Geez, 7 votes and a lot of people seem to be voting 1s on everything. Weird.

I wonder if it has to do with people thinking they can come back and change their votes later? By default, all of the ratings are set to 0. If I, for example, know that I have to rate my own hold 10, I might set it to 10 and click without realizing that I've just rated every other hold a 1 without actually intending to.

Having played about a quarter of the holds at this point, I can't imagine *any* of them actually deserving a 1 rating.

Not even yours, Banjooie.

(OK, actually, I liked yours a lot.)



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jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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Trying to set a record for most threads-started-in-a-single-topic-in-one-day:

What do people do with holds that they can't finish, not because the hold itself is unfinishable, but because they just can't figure out the puzzles? I'd like to be able to rate such holds fairly, but it doesn't seem likely that I'll be able to completely solve every entry -- some are quite difficult.



____________________________
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coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1308
Registered: 11-24-2005
IP: Logged

Schik, I strongly suggest modifying it so that if you vote, the following things happen:

You can see the results of that poll ONLY and your other ones don't get voted. Or else just add a Undecided default option that the system ignores. First one is nicer, second one is easier.

Hurry up. This happened last time, and before that, and before that, and...

Krishh
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 282
Registered: 06-05-2004
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Well, I for example will rate any hold where you can clear a room (not just kill a mosnter, clear the entire room and leave) and still complete the hold afterwards a 1. And I already have 6 holds like that. I'll give smaller point deductions for breraking other rules, but an error as grievous as this really defeats the entire purpose of the contest.

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3226
Registered: 07-05-2004
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Krishh wrote:
Well, I for example will rate any hold where you can clear a room (not just kill a mosnter, clear the entire room and leave) and still complete the hold afterwards a 1. And I already have 6 holds like that. I'll give smaller point deductions for breraking other rules, but an error as grievous as this really defeats the entire purpose of the contest.

Even if it's unintentional? I don't think michtro's hold deserves a 1...

This just sounds unnecessarily harsh to me.

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[Last edited by Doom at 05-23-2006 07:03 PM]

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
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If it's possible anywhere in mine, I assume it's doable in the first room--is this the case, or?

Edit: Are we discussing


Doom: Why would you /intentionally/ make a room which you could clear safely for this contest?

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[Last edited by Banjooie at 05-23-2006 07:05 PM]

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

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Registered: 12-23-2005
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Krishh wrote:
Well, I for example will rate any hold where you can clear a room (not just kill a mosnter, clear the entire room and leave) and still complete the hold afterwards a 1. And I already have 6 holds like that. I'll give smaller point deductions for breraking other rules, but an error as grievous as this really defeats the entire purpose of the contest.

How much space are you allotting for style/design? Because while I can certainly see marking down a hold that allows monster killing, I should think one would want to distinguish between a flawed entry (one in which rules of contest are broken, intentionally or unintentionally) and a weak entry (which may conform to the rules but is not very much fun).



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Doom
Level: Smitemaster

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Banjooie wrote:
Doom: Why would you /intentionally/ make a room which you could clear safely for this contest?

Okay, okay, maybe that sounded silly.

Maybe trying would be a better word. If there's been obviously effort to prevent the most obvious tricks, it shouldn't be so serious.

Wow, that's NOT the room I was talking about in michtro's hold. It was 1N1E...

Krishh
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 282
Registered: 06-05-2004
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Well, for one thing, if the room was designed to kill the monsters based on the vagueness of the rules like that one room in Banjooies hold, I'm not going to go too harsh on him (I haven't completed the hold yet but it seems to be one of the best, so that death might mean a 9 instead of a 10), but I thought that playtesting the holds was one of the challanges of this contest, and unintended solutions are a reality you have to face. In fact, to be fair, if someone gives me a demo of killing a monster in my hold and leaving the room, I'll vote my hold a 1 and give that person 5 rank points as a bonus.

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1182
Registered: 08-19-2004
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In Banjooie's, 3N1E, where are you supposed to get the roach to? I thought I was supposed to guide it to the bottom empty square, but that doesn't seem to do it.

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jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

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stigant wrote:
In Banjooie's, 3N1E, where are you supposed to get the roach to? I thought I was supposed to guide it to the bottom empty square, but that doesn't seem to do it.

If you're talking about the room with the fireworks (?) background, guiding the roach to the empty box surrounded by force arrows at the bottom of that area did it for me...

Josh

____________________________
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Doom
Level: Smitemaster

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jbluestein wrote:

stigant wrote:
In Banjooie's, 3N1E, where are you supposed to get the roach to? I thought I was supposed to guide it to the bottom empty square, but that doesn't seem to do it.

If you're talking about the room with the fireworks (?) background, guiding the roach to the empty box surrounded by force arrows at the bottom of that area did it for me...

Josh

Actually, it didn't. Close, but not quite. The hold is anyone-edit, so it's easy to check.

Wait for monster at... "12,23-16,23"
= The five force arrows at the bottom.

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

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I've done that... are you supposed to keep it in the box somehow (rather than letting it go down to the very bottom? Halph just sits at the top.

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michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
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Ouch! I thought 1N1E may be a bit risky, but I can't believe I missed that in 1W. All I had to do was put a door there instead of a trapdoor.

Krishh, don't you think you're being a little unreasonable? I put a lot of effort into my hold, and I did test it very carefully, but everyone makes mistakes. I don't think it's fair to completely ignore everything else. Take 1W in my hold: I thought it was quite a good idea. Does that really count for nothing? So I spoiled it by making a small mistake. Do you honestly feel I might as well have submitted complete garbage? How about the fact that I went to a lot of trouble to use a different non-scripted idea in every room? If I wanted to, I could also make up my own rules and rate you 1 on the grounds that you essentially use the same idea twice (the serpent/roach combination).

And whether a room can be cleared or just one monster killed is irrelevant. If an author made a mistake, it's going to be largely a matter of luck whether the result is "catastrophic" or not.

I think holds should be rated according to various criteria, with flaws being only one of them. So sure, a mistake is a mistake, but I think rating a hold 1 over a mistake is extremely harsh. Have some perspective. There's a lot more to it. Subtract a point or two, but really...

In fact, I have to say I'm disappointed at the lack of sportsmanship displayed in this contest. I don't have to explain to you why my hold doesn't deserve a 1 - you know that, but it suits you to cling to your excuse of "what the contest is all about", which is utter rot. The contest is certainly not all about playtesting.

Btw, if that's how it's going to be then the contest is between BeefRow and Doom, with you third. All other holds are flawed. It's particularly interesting that the other big anti-flaw proponent, NiroZ, submitted a hold in which at least 5 of the 9 rooms are flawed. In three of them you can even continue onto the next room after killing a monster.

Thanks, Doom. The rest of you who agree with NiroZ and Krishh: You should be ashamed of yourselves! Doom, a 17-year old, has more character and sense than the lot of you combined.

Yeah, yeah. I tried counting to ten slowly. Doesn't work.