UrAvgAzn
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I was in bed while thinking of a new DROD idea. I came up with a bunch and then I thought of a garden snake. Well, its just like a red snake but you have to kill it by hitting its heart (supposedly a red sphere in the middle of the snake). It will die in one shot. Oh yeah, and it can be dead-ended like the red snake, too. I think it should be green and it should move the same way as other snakes. Questinons, ideas, comments, just post them.

-Jeremy

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AlefBet
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I've got to confess that I don't think this idea adds very much puzzle possibility to the game. With rattle snakes, we have serpents that can be killed with the sword (even if it takes longer to do it). How would you use this item in a room to good effect?

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Syntax
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It's almost like saying that a game of chess requires a camel.
I personally dont care how it moves... There is sufficient trick availibility wihout introducing hybrid pawns, or conditional rooks.

Hmm... 4 'i's in one word. Either mis-spelt, or a record

[EDIT]

Mis-spelt

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[Last edited by Syntax at 05-13-2006 02:07 AM]

AlefBet
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Syntax, I'm not sure I understand the thrust of your posting. Do you mean that introducing another monster that is mostly a variation on a current monster wouldn't necessarily add that much to the game? Or do you mean that the game is already pretty rich puzzle-wise and perhaps could use some variety for other reasons? I think it's the first, but I'm not sure.

In any event, I think we could use more game elements with less indivisibility .

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UrAvgAzn
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Kk, I'm back. And if you have a thought to add to my idea, you should post it. Syntax, if you think I am a failure at Future Requests, just say it. Its not like I would feel sad, I don't even know you.

-Jeremy

EDIT: Syntax, I'm pretty sure its spelled misspelled.

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[Last edited by UrAvgAzn at 05-13-2006 02:47 AM]

Banjooie
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Intriguing fact: early arabic versions of chess included a camel piece.

Syntax, if you think I am a failure at Future Requests, just say it

I will say you're a failure at spelling the forum name correctly. On the other hand, the only use I can see for this snake of yours is...I dunno, get a bunch of varying lengths into corridors so that you can stab the hearts and get through?

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[Last edited by Banjooie at 05-13-2006 02:54 AM]

coppro
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Well, at least it would be canonical (You know, the large reptile weakness problem or whatever).

What if you had to whack each end until the center bit remained and whacking that would cause something to happen - maybe death, maybe division or something of somesuch nature. The big ones would be real buggers to get at.

Syntax
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UrAvgAzn wrote:
Kk, I'm back. And if you have a thought to add to my idea, you should post it. Syntax, if you think I am a failure at Future Requests, just say it. Its not like I would feel sad, I don't even know you.

-Jeremy

EDIT: Syntax, I'm pretty sure its spelled misspelled.

Ok... I was being light-hearted.

I don't think anything or one is a failure. One even more so than anything. I apologise if you thought I was being condescending in any way.

The camel idea was in fact based (not on an earlier version of chess) on that book by Karpov (I believe, and too late to check google). Anyways, this book was a lot of ideas laid out on "how to make chess more difficult" but only introduced conditional motion... like the camel. As far as I remember (this was 15 years back), the camel could move 3,3 knight like moves but that depended on entourage of other pieces. Thinking about it, it may have been Fisher.

Anyways... underlying motion was the fact that just as chess is self-complete, DROD is too, and for something to make it as a new concept, it needs to be a new concept. "The middle of the snake" assumes, for example, an odd-lengthed snake... and you want it to behave like red snakes and shrink in a dead end? What happens to the placement of the heart then?

As far as the word misspelled is spelt, spelled is as acceptable a version as spelt and dicken's hinmself uses the apostophe -ed version.

Anyways... all this to say that I do apologise if I came across harshly. I am harsh but fair. Ideas are good...

Oneiromancer
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Feature Requests exist to be criticized. If there aren't any criticisms, then it's probably a good idea. Or it's so bad that no one posted. And maybe the person whose idea it was can then refute those criticisms and then everyone will like it. But I think in general people want to avoid just throwing every last idea into the game so we tend to be very analytical of any new ideas.

Game on,

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Briareos
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UrAvgAzn wrote:
EDIT: Syntax, I'm pretty sure its spelled misspelled.

But you can only spell it right if you spell it worng... where would the fun be in it otherwise? (Miss ng, probably... )

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UrAvgAzn
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Briareos wrote:

UrAvgAzn wrote:
EDIT: Syntax, I'm pretty sure its spelled misspelled.

But you can only spell it right if you spell it worng... where would the fun be in it otherwise? (Miss ng, probably... )

Ok, I was just kidding Syntax, no hard feelings?
Briareos, you lost me.

So it would be right to spell it like this:
S it w ul b ri ht to s ell it l ke t is?


-Jeremy

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"The leaf, still green, must someday fall.
Such grief, such joy, to live at all."
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Briareos
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UrAvgAzn wrote:
Briareos, you lost me.

Strike!

*makes another notch into the table*

np: Prefuse 73 - Another One Long Gone (Security Screenings)

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NekoIncardine
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I'd just like to point out that when I was on the "Take other game's gimmacks and figure out how to port them into DROD" kick a while back, I created an implementation of the Paraveski from Trauma Center that behaved somewhat similar to this. The difference was, it's length was always 2^(x)+1 tiles (i.e. always an odd number - when it's length hit 2^0+1 it died), and hitting the center simply chopped it in half, creating two shorter ones to kill. That version could have some fairly nasty puzzle potential (as you have to slash it, get away from the new one who's head is close to you, and slash it again), IMO, but at the same time, a Tapeworm as an enemy doesn't seem very fitting to me.

The Garden Snake doesn't seem very different from the Rattlesnake to me - you're still hitting a specified point to kill it, and that point isn't exactly harder to hit, especially if you dead-end the thing.

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Syntax
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NekoIncardine wrote:
I'd just like to point out that when I was on the "Take other game's gimmacks and figure out how to port them into DROD" kick a while back, I created an implementation of the Paraveski from Trauma Center that behaved somewhat similar to this. The difference was, it's length was always 2^(x)+1 tiles (i.e. always an odd number - when it's length hit 2^0+1 it died), and hitting the center simply chopped it in half, creating two shorter ones to kill. That version could have some fairly nasty puzzle potential (as you have to slash it, get away from the new one who's head is close to you, and slash it again), IMO, but at the same time, a Tapeworm as an enemy doesn't seem very fitting to me.

So what length were the 2 smaller snakes?

KevG
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Syntax wrote:

NekoIncardine wrote:
I created an implementation of the Paraveski from Trauma Center that behaved somewhat similar to this. The difference was, it's length was always 2^(x)+1 tiles (i.e. always an odd number - when it's length hit 2^0+1 it died), and hitting the center simply chopped it in half, creating two shorter ones to kill.

So what length were the 2 smaller snakes?

That needs to be (2^x)-1 (x>1) and it would die when x=1. Otherwise, the first time you chopped it in half you would have two even length snakes.

Syntax
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Hmm... maybe I wasn't too clear.
I was just pondering about how to implement the "cutting in half".

If I understand correctly (for example), a 7 snake would result in losing the middle part upon chopping, and then spawning two 3 snakes. These would spawn two 1 snakes when chopped and die.

But what about a 9 snake? Using the formula, they would spawn 2 4 snakes which don't have a middle... Other lengths, such as 11 also give problems, though only on the 2nd chop. So 11 -> 5 and 5 -> 2 and 2.

So, yes, I agree the formula should be:
(2^x)-1 where (x>1)

For puzzles, this leaves only (in seriousness) 7, 15 and 31 as workeable lengths which could be a bit too restrictive (a 3 snake would be equivalent to a rattle snake with its tail between its legs, and 63+ sounds a bit *too* long).

stigant
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Would it really be that big a deal if an even-length snake had its target half a square to the left/right of dead center? As long as the location is predictable (ie always 1/2 a square towards the tail) and makes reasonable intuitive sense, it should be workable.

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KevG
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You would have to either allow for even lengths or only allow architects to select one of the acceptable lengths. (Personally, I'd allow 3 and 63). The only real problem with even lengths is deciding what to do with length 2 snakes. Would they be simply rattlers or would they disappear? The off-center center problem would be pretty much non-existent if the center were shaded different from the rest of the snake. Of course, shading would be a good idea anyway; finding the center of a 31 length snake would be a real pain without a visual aid.