Geiler Hengst
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 64
Registered: 03-15-2006
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When a solution of a room depends on in which order the monsters were placed by me, is this considered as good or bad, or i mean will people like the hold for that or hate me for exploiting a "Bug"?

Thx for advise

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[Last edited by Geiler Hengst at 05-08-2006 02:30 PM]

Citrus
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Most people don't like it. I don't care really.

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Kevin_P86
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I consider it less than ideal - i.e. I prefer if a room's solution does not depend on movement order. However, there are quite a number of rooms which have a soultion dependent on movement order, so you certainly wouldn't be the first to do this.

The problem I have with it is that it often forces the player to solve the room by trial and error, which (I may be wrong, but) it seems the creators (Caravel) of a game (DROD) with [nearly] perfect information just by looking at the level were trying to avoid.

That being said, it does not have to be a bad thing that the solution is movement order dependent, but it often is it seems.

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michthro
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It depends on the exact situation. If you're thinking of something like that L2:1E room in your new hold I'm testing, it's not a problem. I don't mind at all eliminating some possibilities with a little trial and error. Movement order isn't the only thing that calls for it, anyway. It's often simpler to just try something and see, than it is to count squares, work out in your head whether you can clear that bit of tar in time, etc. Clearing roach hordes without getting cornered is a typical situation that is heavily dependent on movement order, and I've never heard any complaints. Many rooms in KDD and JtRH do depend on movement order in varying degrees, and in some cases it's less obvious that it does than others.
It can even be very interesting if, for instance, it is possible to deduce the order in which two monsters move from the assumption that the room is possible.
So basically, unless it makes for tedious trial and error, or players will have to redo a lot if they guess wrong, or something annoying like that, go for it.

EDIT: Come to think of it, the solution to that 2E room does not depend on movement order. It's the possible alternative solution that is ruled out by it. Very crafty, actually.

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[Last edited by michthro at 05-08-2006 05:22 PM]

Oneiromancer
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Personally, I'm not really fond of them. If the solution is so exact that you have to take that into account, chances are I will have given up in frustration long before. Not really my style.

Game on,

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Geiler Hengst
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 64
Registered: 03-15-2006
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you got me wrong a bit... i am basicly planning to make a room with two sections, that look exactly the same but need total different stragies to be solved due to placemant order, I would give one or two hints on a scroll so it wouldnt be annoying or sth like that. I might even make 2 rooms which look exactly the same but need total different strategies...


What do you think of sth liek that?

Citrus
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I like that idea. Sounds like something I would play.

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Stefan
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Well, you can take a look at this thread (what you're thinking of has been done before at least twice):
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=10131
Edit: I'm not saying you shouldn't try it - I kind of like those type of rooms, but you may find those holds (well, only one of them has been named, the other one is a secret) interesting.

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[Last edited by Stefan at 05-08-2006 06:30 PM]