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Ezlo
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======
STORY
======

A long time ago, on the Island of Snoll, there was a friendly king
named King Ryui. King Ryui was a king of the people. Every once
and a while he would decend to his domain, and live the life of a
carpenter or a greckle maker for a day. That way he could see what
needed improving in his kingdom, and everyone would be the
better for it.
Now King Ryui had a decent sized dungeon in his castle, about
10 floors deep. It wasn't the best dungeon in the world, but it was
still his pride and joy. One day, King Ryui realized that he had not
yet lived the life of a Delver yet, so he invited Gorby, the town's
resident delver, to come to his castle. He then proposed an offer:
"Gorby, I want you to clean out my dungeon for me. If you
succeded in doing this, I will give 5000 greckles! But there is one
catch, you must take me along with you so that I may see how it
is done."
Now Gorby knew the risks of bringing someone else along with
him while he was doing his delvery duty, but the King would not be
persuaded to stay. So Gorby took King Ryui with him down to
the dungeon, where immediatly he was beset upon by a single giant roach.
Behind him, King Ryui let out a gasp.
"Yes, you see, this is why I didn't want you coming down here!
It's way too dangerous for someone as important as you!" said Gorby.
"IT'S SO CUTE!" exclaimed King Ryui, who immediatly jumped out
from behind Gorby and ran over to cuddle with the roach. The
roach stared hungrily at the pink-haired man running toward him,
and gnashed it's teeth in preperation for a tasty meal. But suddenly
Gorby struck, cleaving the roach in two. Blood splattered everywhere
in the general vicinity.
"How.... How could you?" sobbed the King. "How could you kill
such an innocent creature? All he wanted was a friend!"
"In all due respect King Ryui," said Gorby, "all he wanted was a
meal."
"HE WAS JUST MISUNDERSTOOD!" screamed the King, "THAT'S
IT! WE ARE GOING BACK UPSTAIRS RIGHT NOW! THE DEAL IS OFF!"
So upstairs they went, and as soon as the king was done
executing poor Gorby, he called over his Architects.
"I want you to build me a new dungeon! A dungeon where the
monsters have the upperhand! A dungeon where if a delver kills a
single monster, he will be punished!"
And that, my dear readers, is your task.


======
RULES
======

1. You are to make a one-floor dungeon with a minimum of 9 rooms that contain at least
one killable monster in it, where Beethro can die if he makes the wrong sequence of moves.
2. A killable monster is defined as a monster that can be stabbed and then either disapear,
or is no longer a threat.
3. If Beethro kills a single monster in any room, Beethro must then become trapped and have
to restart and/or undo.
4. Cutting tar doesn't count as killing a monster, neither does stabbing a wubba. Collapsing a
rock golem does however.
5. Anything and everything is allowed to build your hold, even scripting. Use as much as you want.
6. These rules are not set in stone, you can bend or break them. But keep in mind that people will be judging your holds, and that they may think you break them too much and will give you a lower score.


=======
WINNING
=======

You have until May 20 to submit your hold in the submisson topic: (Insert link here.)
After that date, I shall create a poll which will last for one week. After that date,
the winner shall be announced. Standard prizes will be given to first, second, and third place.

YOU MAY BEGIN.

[Last edited by Ezlo at 05-08-2006 08:01 PM]
05-01-2006 at 12:05 PM
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Doom
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Ah, a new contest. I'll probably be making something.

Just one question:
Does "You can't kill monsters" mean that monsters aren't allowed to die in any way? As in, I can't use guards, the Slayer, mimics, decoys, bombs or even characters to kill them?
05-01-2006 at 12:26 PM
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Ezlo
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Beethro can't kill a monster. Anything else can.
05-01-2006 at 12:35 PM
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NiroZ
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and mimics?

(i think its a no, but just checking)

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05-01-2006 at 12:58 PM
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Ezlo
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No Mimics unless they are characters that look like Mimics that aren't under Beethro's control.
05-01-2006 at 01:20 PM
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Krishh
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A bomb when it's Beethro who lit the fuse?
05-01-2006 at 02:14 PM
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Ezlo
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Not allowed. Anything done by Beethro that kills an monster has to be punished.
05-01-2006 at 02:19 PM
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eytanz
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So, does the hold have to be solvable? :)

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05-01-2006 at 02:42 PM
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eytanz
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For everyone's convenience, here is the list of "killable monsters" by the definition above:

Killable monsters
Roach
Roach queen
Spider
Wraithwing
Rock Golem
Goblin
Tar Baby
Mud Baby
Tar Mother
Mud Mother
Brain
Guard
Seep
2-square rattlesnake

Not Killable monster
Red Serpent (cannot be stabbed)
Wubba (not affected by stabs)
Halph (neither disappears nor stops being a threat when stabbed. Plus, not clearly a monster)

Unclear
3+ square Rattlesnake - You can stab it, but it will neither disappear nor stop being a threat.
(pre-placed) Mimic/Decoy - You can stab it, but not clear if it counts as a monster.
Character - You can stab it, but not clear if it counts as a monster.
Slayer - You can stab it, but not clear if it counts as a monster.

Ezlo - mind clearing up whether the last four are allowable?

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[Last edited by eytanz at 05-01-2006 02:52 PM]
05-01-2006 at 02:50 PM
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silver
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"Anything done by Beethro that kills an monster has to be punished" - I think this would include leading a red serpent into a dead-end that it didn't already start in, and would certainly count bombing a red serpent out of existence. so they are probably "killable"



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05-01-2006 at 02:54 PM
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Ezlo
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Okay, atacking a rattlesnake is okay, but you cannot kill it.
Mimics and Decoys are killable.
Characters cannot be killed.
Slayers cannot either.

And silver is right, serpents cannot be killed either. You can shorten them, but no deaths.

And yes, you have to be able to finish the hold.

How do I open a submission topic?
05-01-2006 at 03:06 PM
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Ravon
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From what I understand, beethro's direct actions can not kill a monster. If he does kill one, then it causes the room to be uncompletable, but the rooms must be possible.

Is this correct?
05-01-2006 at 05:09 PM
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Ezlo
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Everything in that is correct except the everything is possible. You don't have to clear the room, just get to the exit. Think of Beethro's Day Off.
05-01-2006 at 05:11 PM
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coppro
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Hmmm. I got a great idea. Hooray for excellent rules. Can we modify/update/improve submissions once they're in, as long as we do it before the deadline?
05-01-2006 at 05:13 PM
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Ezlo
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Yep, but only your last update/post/edit counts.
05-01-2006 at 05:15 PM
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jbluestein
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quote:
Ezlo wrote:

And silver is right, serpents cannot be killed either. You can shorten them, but no deaths.



Does this include serpents that start out in a dead-end? It would seem like those would be pretty safe.

Hmmm...guess I should try my hand at designing something, if only to learn how to do it...

Josh

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05-01-2006 at 05:46 PM
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Ezlo
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Okay, to shorten the rules. No monster can die. At all, ever. In fact, nothing can die at all. The only exceptions are Mimics, Decoys, and Beethro. Nothing else can die! End of story!
05-01-2006 at 06:00 PM
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eytanz
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quote:
Ezlo wrote:
Okay, to shorten the rules. No monster can die. At all, ever. In fact, nothing can die at all. The only exceptions are Mimics, Decoys, and Beethro. Nothing else can die! End of story!


Good idea. Makes things simpler yet harder to do right.

I'm going to make an auxiliary announcement here:

- Since it's pretty easy to make a room where no killing is enforced by a script, anyone who makes an eligable hold without using scripting tricks to ensure that no monsters are dead (scripting is ok for other uses) will get +5 rank points from me.

- The author of the highest ranking hold that uses no such scripting tricks will get an additional 20 rank points for a total of +25.

- Disclaimer: I'm considering entering the contest myself, and I'm not promising to not use scripts to check for monster deaths. While I am not proposing the above rewards to handicap the competition, but rather in order to reward people for taking what I consider the harder path, I cannot predict the effect of no scripting on the final ratings.

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05-01-2006 at 06:09 PM
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michthro
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Keeping it simple is a good idea, or it gets extremely complicated. How about nothing can die? Why make any exceptions at all? It's still not clear whether character mimics/decoys can die.
05-01-2006 at 06:11 PM
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Ezlo
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Okay, how 'bout this? NOTHING can die. Better? :)

You know, running a contest is harder than I thought.
05-01-2006 at 06:18 PM
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Doom
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quote:
eytanz wrote:
- Since it's pretty easy to make a room where no killing is enforced by a script, anyone who makes an eligable hold without using scripting tricks to ensure that no monsters are dead (scripting is ok for other uses) will get +5 rank points from me.
Was going to anyway. In fact, the 2,5 puzzle rooms I've got so far all fit this.

So... I don't have anything against the "nothing can die" rule :smile (Even though I think that disallowing killing mimics/decoys isn't absolutely necessary. They're far from dungeon monsters, aren't they? Why would the king care about them?) Either way is fine for me, though.
05-01-2006 at 06:18 PM
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coppro
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Can something kill itself while killing Beethro? Also, eytanz, since I have a great idea, but it is nearly impossible to do without scripting, but the scripting is very flavorful and funny. Does that matter?
05-01-2006 at 09:13 PM
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silver
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here's a scenario which fits the rules which also doesn't use scripting:

[pit]      [pit]   [pit]             [pit]
[trapdoor] [floor] [eye facing east] [wall]
[pit]      [pit]   [pit]             [pit]


(note no guard in room that can reach this area)

---

I'm VERY disappointed that he removed the guards/slayer can kill things option, however.


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05-01-2006 at 09:23 PM
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michthro
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I can see how, in view of eytanz's very generous offer, not allowing anything to die may be too restrictive. As long as it's kept very simple. (Another reason for keeping it simple is that all rooms will have to be checked for invalid solutions, with which I wish Ezlo good luck.) An alternative could be that Beethro is just not allowed to kill anything with his own sword.
05-01-2006 at 09:54 PM
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coppro
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Set up an elite beta board for playthroughs :P. I'm also going to include demos of my hold, just to ensure that everyone stays happy.
05-01-2006 at 09:56 PM
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michthro
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Demos won't be good enough. After checking that the hold can be conquered, it will have to be checked that there are no unintended solutions in which, say, Beethro kills something. You could probably come up with some room for which it's very difficult to prove that there's no way to conquer/pass through it if you kill something. hmmmmm.. Think I'll have a go at that, just so Ezlo doesn't get bored running this contest. ;)
05-01-2006 at 10:15 PM
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KevG
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Demos are a good idea, but they only prove that it's possible to complete the hold without killing anything; the only way to prove it's impossible to kill something and still complete the hold is by play-testing. This is especially true for the non-scripting methods.

I don't do architecting, but I am a fairly decent player. Since I won't be entering the contest, I'll be glad to volunteer as a playtester if Ezlo needs help.
05-01-2006 at 10:16 PM
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silver
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it is always more difficult to test a negative than a positive.

incidentally, it's not like there will _be_ demos of these holds (at least not on caravel net) since those are all about 'conquered' rooms and conquered means "killed everything" :)

people will have to manually pass around demos of "passed through without conquering" situations. how tedious :)


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05-01-2006 at 10:29 PM
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Ezlo
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I'm sorry, no more rule changes. Nothing can die.

EDIT: I'll have to see how many entries I get, but If I need help testing them, you'll be first on my list KevG.

[Last edited by Ezlo at 05-01-2006 10:38 PM]
05-01-2006 at 10:36 PM
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Bunches
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I'll sign up!
05-01-2006 at 11:25 PM
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