Mister
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 104
Registered: 02-27-2003
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"Palomo", in spanish, is a male dove. But this monster has nothing to do with it. I just has to give it some name.

This monster, normally, is pacific and don't even try to attack Beethro at all. It doesn't even move.
BUT if Beethro happens to slay one of these monsters, all of them enter a berserker rage and attack Beethro as if they were brained goblins.

So, the name of the monster means: PAcific LOyal MOnster

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Hmm...I like it. Does it have pit fly abilities? Many puzzle ops from this one. They will flee the sword too, right? Brained goblins and all.

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

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Registered: 02-05-2003
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I like the idea, except the part about them acting as brained goblins, for two reasons:

A - Goblins are too cautious to seem like "berserk rage". Also, making other monsters act like goblins makes goblins be less special. I think that when these monsters are enraged, they should just have typcial roach behavior - go straight at Beethro. There are tons of ways to organize them in which this is a big enough threat. Especially if they could fly over pits.

B - Making them always brained is a bad idea; it just limits the ways they can be used. It's far better to have them respond to brains normally - i.e. act unbrained with no brain, brained with a brain. That way, you as a room designer could choose which behavior is appropriate to your current room (it's never difficult to design the room such that the brain is the last thing you kill - putting it in a dead end with a green door almost always works, for instance). Also, in another suggestion thread Erik once said that having monsters act brained with no brain in the room can be confusing, and I agree.

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Mister
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 104
Registered: 02-27-2003
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Ok, no autobraining then.

How about this behaviour: they act like goblins at long range, and like roaches when near Beethro. That seems more berserker-like: goblin intelligence without fear.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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I think that this monster is unique enough without having a very strange movement type. Acting like a goblin does not commute with acting like a berzerker at all. A berzerker would go straight for Beethro...just like a roach. (Actually, like a brained roach, but I agree that brain behavior requires a brain in the room.)

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Or...maybe another element that can be thrown in is that it can break crumbly walls. It is a berserking beast, so it may have that much rage. It's no match for a real wall though. I think that when we start touching those, the game'll lose something.

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Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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I think that being able to break crumbling walls would be better reserved for a creature that comes after Beethro from the beginning, rather than one that only does so when Beethro kills one of his kind. Actually, you could probably make the puzzles work either way, but this seems much more limiting.

Game on,

[Edited by Oneiromancer on 07-21-2003 at 06:30 AM]

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

LordKinbote
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 10-01-2003
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Nice idea. I can envision a room filled with the palomos such that if you were to kill one right away, there's no way you could get to a safe point right before dying, so you'd have to traverse the room very carefully, making sure you didn't touch any of them, until you were in a safer place. Yeah, that was a long sentence.

And, by the way, "palomo", in English, is a male dove. "Palomo" in Spanish is still "Palomo".

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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<===realizes from bumped post that the previous idea of his was bad.

Bad Tim. No monster should be able to break crumblies unless that is their only function, and they aim for it. Too much testing time.

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Aris Katsaris
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 32
Registered: 10-10-2003
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I love the idea of the Palomo, but as other people said there's really no need to overload this creature with features -- please no brained or goblin intelligence, no crumbling walls.

Palomo is cool enough with it's initial concept of "everything attacks if one is killed" that adding more characteristics will simply dilute the coolness of the concept.