butsam
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File: Sams Puzzles.hold (2.5 KB)
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I decided to start a new thread for these puzzles. The reason is the hold has been completely revamped to have three NEW rooms, two of which are quite difficult (1 moderate). Let me know what you think!

Sam

eytanz
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Whew... 1N was a lot of fun. Very, very difficult, but a lot of fun. 1W, less so - it's way too easy to get into an unbeatable position, and, unlike 1N, you can't really plan only one move ahead at a time, making a lot of trial and error necessary - and even once you figure out exactly what moves you need to make (which I haven't done yet), executing it can't allow much room for error.

I think I prefer the old version of 1W to the new one (maybe something in the middle will be best, with, say, 3 mimics?). But 1N is probably my favourite room in an unofficial hold so far.

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butsam
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Good work on 1N, eytanz! That is my personal favorite too. I had originally planned on:


What do you think about that idea?

As for the current 1W, there are a ton of ways to get trapped, but it looks more "authentic" without all the arrows, and there is a very systematic way to get it all situated...very orderly. See the hints below, in increasing order of spoilerness, if you are still stuck:



And if you are still stuck:



OK, so I'm not giving a complete spoiler yet, but at least now you can see there is a systematic approach to the room, so it's not bad once you see the solution...just a lot of possibilities to get stuck when you try to do too much at once, and/or don't see the solution.

Sam

[Edited by butsam on 07-10-2003 at 02:57 AM]

[Edited by butsam on 07-10-2003 at 02:58 AM]

eytanz
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Oh, that is what I've been trying to do. But even doing it that way it's extremely difficult. I still think that this room could benefit from having less mimics. I agree that the arrows were a bit annoying - but you could solve the problem by moving the final area closer. I think 3 mimics would be ideal - a lot more complicated than two, but once you figure out the basic principle, you won't have to repeat it, just do it.

As for making the rooms 2N and 2W - that depends on what you're going for. If you just want puzzles to challange people, you don't really need to include easy versions. If you want to create a feeling of progress, that's one way to do it. It's a question of style more than anything else, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here.

[Edited by eytanz on 07-10-2003 at 03:01 AM]

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butsam
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Thanks for the suggestions--I'll try it out that way. I still think 1N is the best that I'll probably ever produce (though I'll still try to top it It's especially good with...





One other thing I like about 1N is that...

And here's another hint for 1W...


Sam


[Edited by butsam on 07-10-2003 at 03:16 AM]

[Edited by butsam on 07-10-2003 at 03:18 AM]

[Edited by butsam on 07-10-2003 at 04:29 AM]

Scott
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I like this hold a whole lot. I didn't find 1 west all that hard. Only took me about 3 goes to get it right. 1 north was very well made. 1 east though still doesn't seem to serve much its way too easy.

butsam
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Yes, 1E is the easy one of the group. Great job on 1W though, some other people find it is the hardest of the three I'll keep working on more good puzzles to make.

Sam

PS: The only reason there are two levels right now is to test if there are any bugs in multi-level holds, but it looks fine. So don't be thrown off by the level 2.

Oneiromancer
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Yes, 1N and 1W were nice, but I didn't think they were too hard...I think I died more on 1E, embarassingly enough.



Good job! I really need to make some of my own rooms now...

Game on,

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Snicker
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Good job, Sam - the Mimic Puzzle is about as difficult as the last, in my opinion. Of course, I'd noticed this behaviour before, so I had a leg up in figuring it out. It's different enough from the first for them both to work well.

1N was more interesting this time, I actually ended up going the wrong way about it at first.

1E was a little more challenging than last time - I actually had to use the properties you described. Was interesting herding roaches

mrimer
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Today's my birthday, Sam, so I took a break from coding and played through your puzzles in the morning. I really enjoyed them! Very neat ideas, all.

After seeing 1W, and hearing how hard it was, I had some ideas. Placing some really hard rooms in out of the way places (where it's just really difficult to find out how to beat it) is a good way to guard a secret exit. (The three tar mother room in DD:L8 is kinda hidden in that way and it would have been a prime candidate for hiding a hidden exit. Expecially without the checkpoints. Only those with an iron will would try to go through that when an open exit is beckoning!)

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butsam
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Thank you very much, mrimer! And happy birthday!!! We all hope it is wonderful for you! And take a break from coding for the day, eh? Best wishes!

The idea for having hard rooms block secret exits is definitely a very good one It would be terrible to have one also that is an un-secret...like on King Dugan's dungeon, it warped you back to level 13...hehe But I don't think I'll ever get that mean, I mean what's the fun if you already beat them? Still...just for a good laugh

I'm glad the puzzles are more juiced up now, even 1E. I had an idea for a roach queen versus a snake, but it just won't work until tunnels are in the game. That'll throw an extra factor into everything!

Sam


[Edited by butsam on 07-11-2003 at 12:49 AM]

krammer
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Uhh??

How can everyone else play this hold? The **** thing crashes back to the desktop every time I click Continue.

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mrimer
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Hmm...sorry about that. I'm expecting build 28 to fix this for everyone still experiencing those errant crashing bugs.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

butsam
Level: Master Delver
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After much consideration, I have decided to stick with 5 mimics on 1W. The "bounce" effect is much nicer that way (it looks cool), and it can get you in some positions where you think it's unsolvable from where you're at but it really isn't. The speed is a minor issue--and that with 3 mimics, there are other techniques that get the mimics lined up that are easier than the particular technique tested currently in 1W. If you use the "proper" technique, it should not take more than about 1 minute to make those extra moves either. So if you are still having trouble, look for another technique to employ, or consider that

I have a good room set for 1N1W with a total of 6 roaches and a snake, no orbs, and no doors (other than 2 squares of green door that just block off "improper" snake kills)...I will get a new version up here once I get a couple other rooms made as well. Maybe I'll try making a room without a snake for once.

Sam

[Edited by butsam on 07-12-2003 at 06:42 PM]

butsam
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One more question for all regarding 1N.

Sam

krammer
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Whew! Build 28 is out and I can play all these new holds again. It's great.

Anyway, nice work. I don't think the mimic puzzle is that tricky, certainly a piece of cake compared to some on Level 22! And I'm not sure if I solved 1N as it was intended...


Nice work, anyway!

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butsam
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Krammer, good work on solving the two puzzles!

For 1N, there is a MUCH faster solution. (Spoiler below)



If that's not enough...



Sam


[Edited by butsam on 07-14-2003 at 03:14 PM]

krammer
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Ah well, a good case of writing without thinking about it...

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