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Sokko
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icon Re: Story Collaboration (0)  
Um, where did that quote (and the one below it) come from ? Got edited away ?

I never edited or deleted anything, so either you didn't notice it or it's our favorite Bulletin Board System acting up again. ;)

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07-15-2003 at 01:16 AM
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trick
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icon Re: Re: Story Collaboration (0)  
Sokko wrote:
I never edited or deleted anything, so either you didn't notice it or it's our favorite Bulletin Board System acting up again. ;)
Eh, sorry, that was just me being stupid. I see it now.

- Gerry

07-15-2003 at 04:28 PM
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agaricus5
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icon The End Of The "Pie" (0)  
One problem I've noticed - what happens to the cherry dimension when all the available energy the sun has and the "pie" has is used up?

From what I've gathered, the sun and the pie are the only two things in the entire dimension - when these two become lifeless masses of extremely cold whatever-it-is-they-are-made-of, and all their energy has been radiated out into the darkness of infinity, what happens next?

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07-29-2003 at 10:36 PM
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NoahT
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icon Re: The End Of The "Pie" (0)  
agaricus5 wrote:
One problem I've noticed - what happens to the cherry dimension when all the available energy the sun has and the "pie" has is used up?

From what I've gathered, the sun and the pie are the only two things in the entire dimension - when these two become lifeless masses of extremely cold whatever-it-is-they-are-made-of, and all their energy has been radiated out into the darkness of infinity, what happens next?

Well, I was studying science in 6th grade (sorry if there is no magic in it), so perhaps...

Perhaps the two masses just start to float around in space, and maybe the radiation cools and forms more masses.

Just some thoughts.

-Noah

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07-30-2003 at 05:39 AM
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agaricus5
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icon The Force Arrow Problem (0)  
Let's also look at the small as well as the big (I'll get back to the sun at some point ;devil)

How in the world do force arrows work? Since they seem to have that weird property of being able to push living matter in their direction, and strangely not Beethro's sword, how in the world were they made or placed without causing some very unusual things to happen to the builders?

I think that they'd be a really useful weapon if you could carry them around though. :D

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07-30-2003 at 02:10 PM
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NoahT
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agaricus5 wrote:
how in the world were they made or placed without causing some very unusual things to happen to the builders?

Maybe the arrows have switches, or the builders wore protective suits. I don't know if either is true, though.

-Noah

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07-30-2003 at 10:08 PM
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agaricus5
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icon The Problem Of Tar (0)  
OK... Let's see if we can get Erik to give us some info on this and get this re-started.

A heated debate on what tar is exactly was going on in the "Bridges" thread on the Feature Requests Board, but it wasn't really the place for it, so I've moved it here.

The last post looked like this:

Schik wrote:
agaricus5 wrote:
Tar existing in 4 dimensions wouldn't necessarily control all tar in the world.
Well, I think the assumption is that tar mothers will only control tar within the boundaries of the room it's in - one place where I must let fiction win, because one tar mother could, in theory, control all the tar in a dungeon level, or in many rooms of it, for its influences travel through walls.
Walls in *our* dimensions. Perhaps it's bound by room-sized walls in other dimensions that we can't see.

Let's suppose the density of air is 1/600g/cm^3 (Air is more dense underground) and the density of tar is around 2g/cm^3 and that the tar will utilise everything in the air for nutrition in this hypothetical set-up. For every litre of tar, the tar mother would need at least 1200 litres of air to make it. Dungeons would become huge vacuum tunnels if a tar mother could make so much tar out of thin air.

Is there any literature describing the density of air and tar on the Eighth? Perhaps they're nothing like the density of air and tar that we know and love here on earth. Perhaps the tar isn't really anything like tar we know, it's just a metaphor used to make us more comfortable.
Or perhaps the tar mother takes in some air and simply makes the tar less dense throughout the room, spreading it around.

Yes, but how does a square of tar turn from an indestinct mass of semi-liquid hydrocarbons and nitrogenous compounds into a fully-fledged, operational and mobile Tar Baby?

Again, who said that's what the tar is made of? Maybe the tar babies are always there, trapped in the tar, and Beethro simply frees them when he cuts off a small piece (or a small piece is formed by expanding).

And just for the record, I fully know that oversized snakes would barely be able to move, let alone climb trees.

I fully agree.

I agree, but only if we're talking about earth, and not some fictional land where our physics are meaningless.

Here, we've just had some argument over my assumptions about Tar and the density of air and also possibly over the problem that physics may not work on the Eighth in the same way, which undermines most of my arguments but also forces Erik to write a whole new set of physical "rules" for the Eighth.

So...

Erik...

First, what is tar made of?

Second, what is the density of Tar, the density of water, and the density of air on the Eighth (Water is 1g/cm^3 on Earth)?

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12-15-2003 at 10:48 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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All right, how about this?

Tar is actually a mix of trillions of tiny organisms. When a piece of tar is 1x1, the tar is unable to structurally support itself and a radical chemical change occurs where a sensing organ is created. Now that it is smaller, it can move about. However, as it has no brain, it just tries to go through walls. The eyes and mouth we see on the screen is just to help us distinguish it from normal tar.

Now, the tar mother is an organism that are two partially symbiotic eye-like shapes that used to be monsters separate from the tar, but evolved to go into it to...let's say escape from predators. From then on, its movement was unneccesary and it became fixed to the ground. (I would also like to point out that each eye must be about the same size as a roach, because it cannot be over a wall, and therefore is probably a fairly complex organism.) Over the millions of years of evolution, one of the tar mother's organs has evolved in a strange way. This organ distributes eggs/sperm/whatever identical to those in the tar/single-cell organisms' reproductive systems. This causes the tar to expand wherever possible.

As said previously by someone else, the "whatevers" do not go from room to room because of a barrier that only affects tar that exists in an eleventh dimension (It is theorised that there are ten in all).

All right, are there any impossibilities or unexplained facts in that?

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12-16-2003 at 02:00 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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Okay, I decided to put together all the posts that happened so far. I used WordPerfect to help me copy/paste, so quotes, bold writing, and a bit of other stuff didnít come through. These are all the relevant posts.





agaricus5

quote:Schik wrote:

quote:agaricus5 wrote:
Of course. A scientific explanation is always very important.


... to some people. I seriously can't think of any computer game I've ever played where I stopped and thought.... Wait a sec... THAT can't happen!

All the discussion/argument all over the place about how things work, and why different things aren't feasible seem rather silly to me. Pure and simple, it's fiction. It works however the author of the story says it does. But hey, if it amuses you... by all means, have fun with it.




Look at it this way. If I was so serious about explanations and logicality, then would I be playing DROD at all?

For example - how in the world would living tar be possible? You would need organs ready in each square of tar that would put themselves together to make a tar baby when the tar is cut, in the right order/composition and without fail every time. In addition, how can tar just increase its mass out of nowhere?

Seriously, if I was that bothered about the problems with giant monsters in structurally physics-defying giant dungeons, then I would have looked at DROD and said something like, "this game is so inconsistent and so unrealistic that I don't want to play it."

Fortunately, I didn't, thus proving that I'm not really too bothered about the fiction behind the Eighth. (You could say I contributed to it by submitting Feature Requests).

Oh, and I'm not offended either - just tired, so the message will sound rushed and a little blunt.

Sorry about that.

The_Red_Hawk

quote:agaricus5 wrote:
For example - how in the world would living tar be possible? You would need organs ready in each square of tar that would put themselves together to make a tar baby when the tar is cut, in the right order/composition and without fail every time. In addition, how can tar just increase its mass out of nowhere?



Well, all the other monsters are certainly possible (even brains - they shoot out electrical impulses that work like cattle prods), and I'm pretty sure tar is too. You wouldn't need extra organs - let's just say that tar only has one weird sense which allows it to sense exterminators. It will try to move in that direction, but it only can do that when it is a tar baby and mobile. Let's say (again) that the tar, when it is cut to a small enough area, implodes into a thing with capabilities of movement, and the eyes and mouth are just for show. The tar just smothers him.

The tar increases mass whenever a Tar Mother is in the room. How about this - every 30 turns, the mother shoots electrical impulses out. There is a chemical reaction within the tar which causes it to expand. If the area is too small, that square of tar implodes, forms a tar baby, and goes after Beethro in the normal fashion.

So it is possible.

agaricus5

OK.... It's a "just for fun" argument.

quote:The_Red_Hawk wrote:

quote:agaricus5 wrote:
For example - how in the world would living tar be possible? You would need organs ready in each square of tar that would put themselves together to make a tar baby when the tar is cut, in the right order/composition and without fail every time. In addition, how can tar just increase its mass out of nowhere?



Well, all the other monsters are certainly possible (even brains - they shoot out electrical impulses that work like cattle prods), and I'm pretty sure tar is too. You wouldn't need extra organs - let's just say that tar only has one weird sense which allows it to sense exterminators. It will try to move in that direction, but it only can do that when it is a tar baby and mobile. Let's say (again) that the tar, when it is cut to a small enough area, implodes into a thing with capabilities of movement, and the eyes and mouth are just for show. The tar just smothers him.


Yes, but where do the eyes and mouth come from? Somehow the molecules of tar have to change composition, structure and colour for what you say to happen, which, in the time-space of one cutting (a few seconds) is highly unlikely to happen. The enzymes catalysing the reactions to turn the blue tar into eyes and mouths are going to have to be super-fast, efficient and extremely accurate for it to happen each time Beethro cuts the tar to make babies.

quote:The tar increases mass whenever a Tar Mother is in the room. How about this - every 30 turns, the mother shoots electrical impulses out. There is a chemical reaction within the tar which causes it to expand. If the area is too small, that square of tar implodes, forms a tar baby, and goes after Beethro in the normal fashion.



How do the electrical impulses "create" mass? Although the tar may perform a chemical reaction within itself, how does this reaction turn whatever it is the Tar uses to grow into Tar? If it derives the chemicals from the air, and if we say the air has density 1/600g/cm^3 (the air will be more dense underground) and tar has a density of around 2g/cm^3, (water has a density of 1g/cm^3) then the Tar is probably going to need around a thousand litres of air to form just one litre of Tar.

quote:So it is possible.


I don't agree with you.

trick

quote:agaricus5 wrote:
Yes, but where do the eyes and mouth come from?


Magic.

quote:How do the electrical impulses "create" mass?


E=MC^2

agaricus5

quote:trick wrote:

quote:agaricus5 wrote:
Yes, but where do the eyes and mouth come from?


Magic.


Oh... of course. I forgot.:)

quote:

quote:How do the electrical impulses "create" mass?


E=MC^2 :)


Hmm...

Energy conversion to mass for tar growth?

So... if the density of tar is 2g/cm^3, then 1 litre will weigh 2kg, and the amount of energy needed by the tar to increase its mass by 2kg is:

2*((3*(10^:glasses)^2) = 1.8*10^17 Joules,

Or 180000000000000000J,

That means that the electrical impulse needs to convert this much energy into mass. An electricity bolt that large would probably fry the entire dungeon level.

trick

quote:agaricus5 wrote:

quote:trick wrote:
Magic.


Oh... of course. I forgot.


What is the world coming to ?

quote:

quote:

quote:How do the electrical impulses "create" mass?


E=MC^2


Hmm...

Energy conversion to mass for tar growth?

So... if the density of tar is 2g/cm^3, then 1 litre will weigh 2kg, and the amount of energy needed by the tar to increase its mass by 2kg is:

2*((3*(10^)^2) = 1.8*10^17 Joules,

Or 180000000000000000J,

That means that the electrical impulse needs to convert this much energy into mass. An electricity bolt that large would probably fry the entire dungeon level.



Hm, yes, that is a problem, unless we explain that by magic as well (but I don't want to, let's be creative here). Also, even if the energy bolts from the tar somehow doesn't fry the entire level every 30 "turns" (highly concentrated directional laser-like bolts, maybe ?), where do the energy come from ?

Hm... Judging by the nature of the Living Tar, I say there's a relatively high chance (*cough*) that it not only exists in three dimensions, but is a fourth (or higher) dimensional being. This means that, at every Tar growth cycle, the Mother simply moves part of its mass into our dimensions. There's no actual growth involved. This would also explain how a Mother can make other seemingly disconnected blobs of Tar grow at the same cycle -- the Tar is in fact connected (within the room, at least), just not in our dimensions.

The_Red_Hawk

The "extra dimension" sounds good - but then wouldn't just one mother be able to control all the tar in the world?

How about this: when the tar mother shoots out electrical impulses, they are attracted by the tar. When tar is stimulated by just the tiniest amount of electricity, it chemically reacts and expands.

And, when I said the eyes and mouth are for show, I meant that they don't really exist, just that it's drawn. But if you like, the explanation is that when the small pieces of tar implode, some parts are unable to keep their matter correct and therefore turn white. They try to close the holes (closing the mouth) but rarely succeeds. The white patches are always in the same location because of the tar's chemical makeup.

DiMono

Ah, Physics. Physics can explain anything. Scientists could prove that an elephant hanging over a cliff could be supported by its tail being wrapped around a daisy. Anyway:

Tar existing in 4 dimensions wouldn't necessarily control all tar in the world. Go read Flatland, then imagine a 3 dimensional object interacting with a 2 dimensional plane. As you pass the object through the 2 dimensional plane, its appearance in 2 dimensions will change. However, since it's only one object, it has limited size.

Similarly, a 4 dimensional object in a 3 dimensional area would appear to change size, but would still have limited size in 4 dimensions. After all, it must be located somewhere.

The real question is "how could removing an entire section of tar not connected to the Tar Mother be productive?" After all, the Mother could just move more of itself in to the room again in the same place, thus defeating the purpose of removing it in the first place.

For the tar growth, I think it's much more likely that Tar Mothers just perceive time faster than we do. After all, we have two or three growth spurts in the first 18 years of our lives, where we seem to just expand. If this were accelerated, we might seem to inexplicably grow every 30 turns too. Maybe it takes its nutrition from the trace elements in the air?

Since the Tar Mother is sentient (to some degree), it seems reasonable that it has highly developed psychic abilities that allow it to control similar substances, explaining how separated tar grows as well. Then, the Tar Mother could psychically pass enough instinct to its Tar Babies so they can survive on their own.


And just for the record, I fully know that oversized snakes would barely be able to move, let alone climb trees.

The_Red_Hawk

If tar mothers are psychic, are brains psychic too?

agaricus5

More friendly argument.... (See the "Story Collaboration" thread if you want to know what I mean)

quote:DiMono wrote:
Ah, Physics. Physics can explain anything. Scientists could prove that an elephant hanging over a cliff could be supported by its tail being wrapped around a daisy. Anyway:


Of course. What if the elephant and its surroundings were in a zero gravity field? Then the elephant would not pull much on the daisy and so as long as the elephant does not get the urge to wiggle its tail, the daisy till remain intact.

quote:Tar existing in 4 dimensions wouldn't necessarily control all tar in the world.



Well, I think the assumption is that tar mothers will only control tar within the boundaries of the room it's in - one place where I must let fiction win, because one tar mother could, in theory, control all the tar in a dungeon level, or in many rooms of it, for its influences travel through walls.

quote:Go read Flatland, then imagine a 3 dimensional object interacting with a 2 dimensional plane. As you pass the object through the 2 dimensional plane, its appearance in 2 dimensions will change. However, since it's only one object, it has limited size. Similarly, a 4 dimensional object in a 3 dimensional area would appear to change size, but would still have limited size in 4 dimensions. After all, it must be located somewhere.


I'm following...

quote:The real question is "how could removing an entire section of tar not connected to the Tar Mother be productive?" After all, the Mother could just move more of itself in to the room again in the same place, thus defeating the purpose of removing it in the first place.


The problem is that then the tar mother could move tar anywhere into the room, not just on the perimeter of a tar mass. If the tar were present in all three spatial dimensions on a square, just beyond it on a 4th dimension coordinate that takes it out of the other three and overlays it, then in theory, the tar mother could move that mass of tar into the room and plop it down, totally separate from other tar masses in the room.

quote:For the tar growth, I think it's much more likely that Tar Mothers just perceive time faster than we do. After all, we have two or three growth spurts in the first 18 years of our lives, where we seem to just expand. If this were accelerated, we might seem to inexplicably grow every 30 turns too. Maybe it takes its nutrition from the trace elements in the air?


As I said before...

Let's suppose the density of air is 1/600g/cm^3 (Air is more dense underground) and the density of tar is around 2g/cm^3 and that the tar will utilise everything in the air for nutrition in this hypothetical set-up. For every litre of tar, the tar mother would need at least 1200 litres of air to make it. Dungeons would become huge vacuum tunnels if a tar mother could make so much tar out of thin air.

quote:Since the Tar Mother is sentient (to some degree), it seems reasonable that it has highly developed psychic abilities that allow it to control similar substances, explaining how separated tar grows as well. Then, the Tar Mother could psychically pass enough instinct to its Tar Babies so they can survive on their own.


Yes, but how does a square of tar turn from an indestinct mass of semi-liquid hydrocarbons and nitrogenous compounds into a fully-fledged, operational and mobile Tar Baby?

quote:And just for the record, I fully know that oversized snakes would barely be able to move, let alone climb trees.


I fully agree.

Schik

quote:agaricus5 wrote:

quote:Tar existing in 4 dimensions wouldn't necessarily control all tar in the world.



Well, I think the assumption is that tar mothers will only control tar within the boundaries of the room it's in - one place where I must let fiction win, because one tar mother could, in theory, control all the tar in a dungeon level, or in many rooms of it, for its influences travel through walls.


Walls in *our* dimensions. Perhaps it's bound by room-sized walls in other dimensions that we can't see.

quote:
Let's suppose the density of air is 1/600g/cm^3 (Air is more dense underground) and the density of tar is around 2g/cm^3 and that the tar will utilise everything in the air for nutrition in this hypothetical set-up. For every litre of tar, the tar mother would need at least 1200 litres of air to make it. Dungeons would become huge vacuum tunnels if a tar mother could make so much tar out of thin air.


Is there any literature describing the density of air and tar on the Eighth? Perhaps they're nothing like the density of air and tar that we know and love here on earth. Perhaps the tar isn't really anything like tar we know, it's just a metaphor used to make us more comfortable.
Or perhaps the tar mother takes in some air and simply makes the tar less dense throughout the room, spreading it around.

quote:Yes, but how does a square of tar turn from an indestinct mass of semi-liquid hydrocarbons and nitrogenous compounds into a fully-fledged, operational and mobile Tar Baby?


Again, who said that's what the tar is made of? Maybe the tar babies are always there, trapped in the tar, and Beethro simply frees them when he cuts off a small piece (or a small piece is formed by expanding).

quote:

quote:And just for the record, I fully know that oversized snakes would barely be able to move, let alone climb trees.

I fully agree.


I agree, but only if we're talking about earth, and not some fictional land where our physics are meaningless.







Next are the two posts above. Iíll put them here for convenience. It should be noted, however, that there are a few other posts before and after this stuff, but they donít relate.





agaricus5

OK... Let's see if we can get Erik to give us some info on this and get this re-started.

A heated debate on what tar is exactly was going on in the "Bridges" thread on the Feature Requests Board, but it wasn't really the place for it, so I've moved it here.

[previous post]


Here, we've just had some argument over my assumptions about Tar and the density of air and also possibly over the problem that physics may not work on the Eighth in the same way, which undermines most of my arguments but also forces Erik to write a whole new set of physical "rules" for the Eighth.

So...

Erik...

First, what is tar made of?

Second, what is the density of Tar, the density of water, and the density of air on the Eighth (Water is 1g/cm^3 on Earth)?

The_Red_Hawk

All right, how about this?

Tar is actually a mix of trillions of tiny organisms. When a piece of tar is 1x1, the tar is unable to structurally support itself and a radical chemical change occurs where a sensing organ is created. Now that it is smaller, it can move about. However, as it has no brain, it just tries to go through walls. The eyes and mouth we see on the screen is just to help us distinguish it from normal tar.

Now, the tar mother is an organism that are two partially symbiotic eye-like shapes that used to be monsters separate from the tar, but evolved to go into it to...let's say escape from predators. From then on, its movement was unneccesary and it became fixed to the ground. (I would also like to point out that each eye must be about the same size as a roach, because it cannot be over a wall, and therefore is probably a fairly complex organism.) Over the millions of years of evolution, one of the tar mother's organs has evolved in a strange way. This organ distributes eggs/sperm/whatever identical to those in the tar/single-cell organisms' reproductive systems. This causes the tar to expand wherever possible.

As said previously by someone else, the "whatevers" do not go from room to room because of a barrier that only affects tar that exists in an eleventh dimension (It is theorised that there are ten in all).

All right, are there any impossibilities or unexplained facts in that?





So, thatís it. Continue on!

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 12-16-2003 at 02:20 AM GMT]

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12-16-2003 at 02:19 AM
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DiMono
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I think that might be the longest post I've ever seen, and I've written fifteen pages of gibberish before. :)

I'm going to stick to my claim that the fourth dimension still does not remove the restriction on limited volume, and that the reason tar mothers make unconnected tar grow is because it's really just another "limb" of the tar mother.

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12-17-2003 at 06:50 AM
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Then how is the "limb" connected?

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12-17-2003 at 02:03 PM
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DiMono
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As you put in that monster post somewhere, it's just like a 3 dimensional object in a 2 dimensional plane. Imagine a horseshoe passing through a plane. There are going to be more than one incursion caused by the horseshoe, but in a dimension unknown to the plane it's still just one object.

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12-17-2003 at 08:43 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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But then, also as said above, one tar mother would easily control all the tar in the world.

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12-17-2003 at 11:55 PM
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If you have two or more horseshoes passing through a plane, that doesn't automatically make them all connected.

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12-18-2003 at 01:55 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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How does the mother inherently know that it is connected to a piece of tar in the room and not one out of the room?

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12-18-2003 at 03:02 AM
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How do I know that my arm belongs to me, but yours doesn't? It's just a happy coincidence for Beethro that the tar monsters never outreach the room the mother's in.

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12-18-2003 at 07:10 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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If there's 15 pieces of tar and a mother in one room, and 15 pieces of tar and a mother in another room, it's a pretty *huge* coincidence that they never overreach their own room. There's thousands of pieces in the world. ;)

Oh - and your arm belongs to you because you're connected to it. Not so with tar.



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12-18-2003 at 03:03 PM
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zex20913
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The easiest way to "explain" the fourth dimension as in relation to the third, is how DiMone and mrimer have tried to. If you have two horseshoes and two pieces of paper next to each other, and have one horseshoe per piece of paper, and call the horseshoes tar, you would get multiple pieces of tar depending on where it is going, 3-dimensionally, through the paper. And maybe it's not a coincidence, but perhaps all of the tar mothers have apartments...or something. I know that I'm alone sometimes, why can't the tar mothers?

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12-18-2003 at 06:30 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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I can't understand you.

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12-18-2003 at 07:21 PM
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DiMono
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You should go find and read a copy of Flatland then, because I can't explain it any better than that. It's a good book anyway, so it's worth your time.

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12-19-2003 at 01:16 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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So you mean that all tar is room-sized and sometimes comes through so therefore is connected below?

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12-19-2003 at 02:48 AM
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DiMono
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Not all tar is room-sized, it just can't be larger than room-sized within the dungeons of the Eighth

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12-20-2003 at 02:23 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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Hmmm.....

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12-20-2003 at 03:46 AM
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BTW, there are 26 dimensions, so if you want to add an extra one make it the 27th. But you don't really need to do that, just use one higher than four and there's automatically a very good chance of us never interacting with it at all.

My theory is that the method architects use to link rooms to each other creates an invisible barrier that acts like a reverse strainer; it lets through large objects but holds back microscopic ones, such as the "growth stimulant cells" that the tar mother disperses that cause the tar to grow. It's up to you to figure out why the barrier doesn't hold in air. ;)

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12-24-2003 at 08:45 PM
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agaricus5
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Sokko wrote:
BTW, there are 26 dimensions, so if you want to add an extra one make it the 27th. But you don't really need to do that, just use one higher than four and there's automatically a very good chance of us never interacting with it at all.
That's very much speculation - the number of dimensions in the universe is very debatable. Where did you get that large number from anyway? I thought most of today's theories use around 10-12 dimensions.

My theory is that the method architects use to link rooms to each other creates an invisible barrier that acts like a reverse strainer; it lets through large objects but holds back microscopic ones, such as the "growth stimulant cells" that the tar mother disperses that cause the tar to grow. It's up to you to figure out why the barrier doesn't hold in air. ;)
Technically, a "reverse strainer" would then stop things smaller than a certain width through, so cells sticking out from Beethro's body that are small enough to be "strained" will just fall off him.

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12-24-2003 at 09:30 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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Well, all his cells are held together. How about this?

All the border of the room, even entrances, have a small electrical field. When something passes through, it gives a jolt small enough to not be felt by Beethro but strong enough to kill all microorganisms.

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12-24-2003 at 10:16 PM
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Mattcrampy
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But then how do monsters get from one room to the next?

They seem to only enter the dungeon from one point, and spread from there until the green doors detect them and come up. So how do they get from room to room?

Matt

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12-26-2003 at 04:51 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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All over the Eighth, there are evil guys like the 'Neather that know the secrets of turning off the fields. They construct the green doors, and direct monsters from room to room.

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12-26-2003 at 02:15 PM
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Mattcrampy
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I understand the Architects install the green and blue doors to prevent monsters spreading, but there's a rather shocking delay on when they pop up. They don't close as soon as a monster appears, but instead only a couple of minutes after.

Although I think you're on to something with the evil guys - within our halls great knowledge grows outside the halls there wait our foes...

Matt

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12-28-2003 at 02:34 AM
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agaricus5
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ErikH2000 wrote:
The sun, intensely bright, would hover about ten miles above the disc's North Pole center.

Major problem, Erik.

The sun hovers about 10 miles above the surface, right?

Most of the Eighth will be pretty cold and the sun will be always low in the sky since it has a radius of 5000 miles.

If we went about 100 miles from the sun, assuming Sun Island is a few miles high, 4, and the sun floats 10 miles above the peak, the angle of elevation of the sun will be around 8 degrees.

Now, if we went to thee edge of the pie, 5000 miles away, the angle of elevation of the sun will be only 0.16 degrees, meaning that it will almost never see the sun.

What this means in simple terms is that the sun will always appear almost on the horizon and the changing of height in seasons will have absolutely no effect as the sun's height is almost negligible to the pie's radius.

Please change the value to at least 1000 miles (but larger is better), allowing the inhabitants to be able to look up at the sun, rather than have to climb a mountain and look horizontally at the horizon to see it.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 01-01-2004 at 01:28 PM GMT]

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