Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1842
Registered: 07-31-2005
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wonkyth wrote:
Jatopian: I will always be happy to label someone a forum nazi when I see them repeatedly down-mod someone for saying stupid stuff, but not give shiny golden stars to people who do the inverse.

I don't have shiny golden stars though, only rank points. Are rank points not enough for you? You're impossible to please.

I mod people up fairly often, actually, about as often as I mod them down. I just don't usually bother to also make a post saying that I modded them up, because there's no need, whereas when I mod someone down they may not know what exactly they did wrong, or maybe they just need an extra spur to change.

____________________________
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wonkyth
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
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Jatopian wrote:
whereas when I mod someone down they may not know what exactly they did wrong,

To be fair, I appreciate that.
I find it downright perplexing when I get downmodded for no apparent reason.

____________________________
"Satire denounces the world;
Wit penetrates it;
Humour accepts it;
But Nonsense Transforms it"
- Cedric Whitman
w.r.t. Aristophanes

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2459
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wonkyth wrote:
Oh, and BTW Jatopian: I will always be happy to label someone a forum nazi when I see them repeatedly down-mod someone for saying stupid stuff, but not give shiny golden stars to people who do the inverse.

Whereas I will always be happy to mod someone down for using the word "Nazi" outside its literal Third-Reich meaning. Speaking as someone Jewish, it really, seriously, deeply bothers me when people use "Nazi" to mean "someone who follows/enforces rules". So here, have another -3.

Rat Man
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 121
Registered: 07-10-2010
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That's not how it's used, though. who enforces rules unnecessarily harshly/strictly, not just anyone who follows and enforces rules. I'm not saying it should be used that way, but it's not as bad as how you portrayed it.

____________________________
I'M IN SPACE!

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[Last edited by Rat Man at 07-05-2011 07:27 PM]

Tahnan
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Rat Man wrote:
That's not how it's used, though. who enforces rules unnecessarily harshly/strictly, not just anyone who follows and enforces rules. I'm not saying it should be used that way, but it's not as bad as how you portrayed it.

Congratulations, Rat Man, you just won the "Totally Missed The Point" prize for the month of July. In case it's not clear, I don't care how strictly someone is enforcing rules. Calling someone a Nazi, unless they have embraced the white-supremacist teachings of the National Socialist party of 1930s-40s Germany, is offensive to the eleven million people the Nazis killed, and to the Jews, gays, Catholics, intellectuals, Romany, and more or less everyone else in the world.

Your "I didn't shoot him because he was snoring, I shot him because he was snoring really loud" argument doesn't do a whole lot to make me feel better about it.

Rat Man
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 121
Registered: 07-10-2010
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There was a significant between what you said it was used to mean and what it really was used to mean, and whether that was the point of your post or not, you don't go saying things that are downright not true!

____________________________
I'M IN SPACE!

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2459
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Rat Man. You already have the award. You can stop now. I don't know how to tell you any more clearly that the distinction you're drawing does not matter. Instead I'm going to tell you the following, and I'm going to go tell you in the other topic you're posting in, too, and hopefully between the two posts I won't have to keep downmodding everything you say.

When someone has an emotional reaction to something, the correct thing to do is accept that that's their reaction. The incorrect thing to do is to nitpick the details, which suggests that you don't care how the other person is feeling.

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
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Rat Man wrote:
There was a significant between what you said it was used to mean and what it really was used to mean, and whether that was the point of your post or not, you don't go saying things that are downright not true!

In case you missed it - there's sadly enough idiots out there (again) today that make sure that "Nazi" will mean the same mad, inhumane, disgusting things it did around a hundred years ago, and for a looong time I'm afraid...

And that's not something you attribute to someone who's "just" being a jerk on the internet, or something similar that doesn't even start to compare.

(Though I'm not exactly sure what this has to do with this thread's subject - maybe continue this discussion somewhere else? Or maybe just let it be so you don't end up at 0 rank points?)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

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[Last edited by Briareos at 07-05-2011 11:11 PM]

wonkyth
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 06-18-2007
IP: Logged

Here we go again...

____________________________
"Satire denounces the world;
Wit penetrates it;
Humour accepts it;
But Nonsense Transforms it"
- Cedric Whitman
w.r.t. Aristophanes

Trickster
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 662
Registered: 07-03-2007
IP: Logged

Tahnan wrote:
Calling someone a Nazi, unless they have embraced the white-supremacist teachings of the National Socialist party of 1930s-40s Germany, is offensive to the eleven million people the Nazis killed, and to the Jews, gays, Catholics, intellectuals, Romany, and more or less everyone else in the world.

Ack, now I need feel compelled to throw in my two centavos too. Two points and a counter-point follow.

First, calling someone a Nazi is nearly always a gross exaggeration (like when a middle-class American says she is "starving"). For most Westerners, being compared to Hitler or Nazism or some related thing is one of the worst insults you can receive without including profanity or scatology. This is the reason Godwin's Law exists: once someone in an argument invokes a comparison of the opposing party or the opposing argument to Hitler or Nazis, the argument is over because it has degenerated to the bottom...there's nowhere left to go. It's like the Triple-Dog-Dare of stupid arguments.

Second, if Tahnan or anyone else is greatly offended by the use of the word Nazi in an exaggerated way, that's reason enough for me to avoid it around them as long as doing so does not inconvenience me or keep me from stating my opinion.

Now, that being said, I need to disagree with a small portion of this. I understand and respect Tahnan's feelings on this issue, but the blanket statement that calling someone a Nazi is offensive to anyone, is not true. Different people have different levels of sensitivity to these sorts of issues. I'm pretty sure Jerry Seinfeld is sensitive to the Holocaust, but his characterization of an arbitrarily-strict and compassionless chef as a Nazi (the Soup Nazi, one of his most famous skits) was reasonably well-received as humorous and harmless by most people, though it did create many conversations about the appropriateness of Nazi comparisons in both comedy and serious discussion.

Even in non-comedy contexts, exaggeration can be seen as a crude warning of the potential implications of an overly-dogmatic approach to governance. If someone said that when George W. Bush setting up a warrantless wiretap program, and when Barack Obama extended similar provisions, the loss of freedom creeps us toward Nazism, I would relent that this is a valid opinion (whether or not I agree with it). To actually call either President a "Nazi" would obviously be gross hyperbole and would more likely offend and repulse people than to engender their support. However, while they are more common than is useful, shock tactics do have a place in discourse, and some of the most successful activism has relied on shock as a means of garnering attention.

To sum up, I agree Nazi is an ugly slur and it shouldn't be used lightly lest it lose its power from the weight of History. But I really don't think this thread has been an explosion of mean-spirited behavior, particularly from Rat Man. Rat Man didn't call anyone a Nazi, and when he said "that's not what it usually means", he's technically correct: it's usually used, in gross exaggeration, as a synonym for "fascism" (being the most well-known example of a fascist society).

I think the main problem here isn't that Rat Man is being punished for expressing himself, but I'm worried he might be sent this message. The problem is that Rat Man was oblivious to the fact that when Tahnan said (and I quote): "this really, seriously, deeply bothers me," that this was in some way an invitation to argue in defense of wonkyth's use of the word.

So, to clear things up a bit: yes, Rat Man, wonkyth did not literally mean that Jatopian supports genocide and imperialism and racism and public highways. I think it's even clear from wonkyth's original post that the word "Nazi" was used somewhat in jest (but still in poor taste). Tahnan already realizes these things, and this is not why he is upset. He doesn't feel that word should be used lightly, and I agree with him, even though a lot of people do use that word lightly.

For the record, I also try not to say things like "I'm starving" when I'm merely peckish.

Anyway, to quote Schik: Don't be idiots!

____________________________
Trickster

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[Last edited by Trickster at 07-06-2011 04:04 PM]

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2459
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Trickster wrote:
Ack, now I need don't really need to throw in my two centavos too but will anyway.

Corrected for you. Sorry about that.

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
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Well, I am Jewish, and I am not offended in any way by people using the terms "Grammar Nazi" or "Forum Nazi" anymore than I'm offended by people being called Vandals for graffiti rather than sacking and pillaging a city, or Pirates for stealing software rather than looting and sinking ships, or any of the other slang words with historical basis that don't mean exactly what they used to mean.

Nazi (plural Nazis)
3. (slang, usually pejorative) One who imposes one’s views on others.

The Nazis are those strict fellows who impose their views on others and deal mercilessly with those who deviate from their ideal of perfection, concentrating more on punishment than reward.

This is the quality people will remember them for, hundreds of years from now. This is inevitable, this has already happened, and there is no need to be a Nazi about it.

____________________________
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Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

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Maurog wrote:
Well, I am Jewish, and I am not offended....

This is inevitable, this has already happened, and there is no need to be a Nazi about it.

Oh. My. G-d.

Did you seriously just tell me "Because I'm not offended, I don't care that you are, and indeed I'm going to post something that will explicitly offend you"?

Words can't even.

Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5383
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Back on topic, I think the answer is D.


____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
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Hmm, apparently the world revolves around Tahnan. Who knew?

Oh and by the way, Tahnan, this one is aimed at you! Yes, YOU! You can tell because it has your name in it and everything.

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

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[Last edited by Maurog at 07-06-2011 03:16 PM]

da rogu3
Level: Smiter

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Let's not start a flame war here.

Different people get offended by different things. Everyone should respect that fact, and not intentionally provoke people. What's done is done, we should drop the topic before it gets any worse.

btw Schik I already answered D

Just waiting for matthewpd to post another question and get back on topic.

Tahnan
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Wow. It's an impressive thread-derail that can make me sorry that we've drifted from matthewpd's DROD trivia.

matthewpd
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 62
Registered: 01-18-2010
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About how long does a roach queen take to spawn a roach
A:15
B:35
C:5
D:25
Think how long does it take to make them.
^/OO\^
_|__|
_\__/
__\/

____________________________

Dear cnet members i dont intend to be annoying i just wanna learn. sincerely, mattpd.
and if you mod me down your a Meanie

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[Last edited by matthewpd at 07-06-2011 04:04 PM]

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
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No man, wait, am I supposed to flip on Schik right now, I just realized.

Halp! Halp! I'm being intentionally provoked! But of course nobody should respect my right to be offended, because I'm not throwing a hissy fit about it, amirite? Of course if I were to throw a hissy fit about being provoked, everyone would just laugh and say "oh that Maurog, he's completely bonkers" and then commence to high-five one another and go home.

Sorry for existing, people. I hope I don't inconvenient you too much.

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
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west.logan
Level: Smitemaster

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I choose B sir!

____________________________
-Logan

da rogu3
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 491
Registered: 04-06-2011
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I guess B.

edit: beaten by mere seconds

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[Last edited by da rogu3 at 07-06-2011 03:36 PM]

matthewpd
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 62
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west.logan wrote:
I choose B sir!

I think you're Right

____________________________

Dear cnet members i dont intend to be annoying i just wanna learn. sincerely, mattpd.
and if you mod me down your a Meanie

matthewpd
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 62
Registered: 01-18-2010
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Next question:
What can kill you by hot tiles?


____________________________

Dear cnet members i dont intend to be annoying i just wanna learn. sincerely, mattpd.
and if you mod me down your a Meanie

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
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Standing still.

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

west.logan
Level: Smitemaster

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da rogu3 wrote:
I guess B.

edit: beaten by mere seconds

LoL, but still not too slow to get the points apparently.



____________________________
-Logan

matthewpd
Level: Delver
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Maurog wrote:
Standing still.

i think your correct

____________________________

Dear cnet members i dont intend to be annoying i just wanna learn. sincerely, mattpd.
and if you mod me down your a Meanie

matthewpd
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 62
Registered: 01-18-2010
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Question #5
what token can let you see evil eye visions and hidden objects under Tar?
A-vision tokens
B-arrow tokens
C-tar switch tokens
D-Power tokens


____________________________

Dear cnet members i dont intend to be annoying i just wanna learn. sincerely, mattpd.
and if you mod me down your a Meanie

da rogu3
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 491
Registered: 04-06-2011
IP: Logged

A - vision token

Edit: beat you this time, Logan!

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[Last edited by da rogu3 at 07-06-2011 04:07 PM]

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
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Why do you assume the average number of babies is three? Since a queen is capable of laying between zero and eight eggs, I bet it's a bell curve peaking at 4.

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!