DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1184
Registered: 09-13-2003
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Actually, I recalculated and it was down by 3, not 1 (bad mods don't drop your total mod points, I'm +14 -2). It was also the second mod on a post. Has incremental modding-cost been implemented already?

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Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5533
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DiMono wrote:
Has incremental modding-cost been implemented already?

No, it hasn't. What I'd like to do is not have the links there if you don't have enough points to moderate something, so it's not completely trivial. I'll work on it soon though.

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Matt - Any comments on my idea for a time limit on post mods? It sort of vanished in the flood of posts and I want to make sure that if you don't implement the idea it's because you don't want to, not because you didn't see it.

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Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5533
Registered: 02-04-2003
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eytanz wrote:
Matt - Any comments on my idea for a time limit on post mods? It sort of vanished in the flood of posts and I want to make sure that if you don't implement the idea it's because you don't want to, not because you didn't see it.

I did see it, however it's been a busy day and I haven't really even thought about it. Off the top of my head, I don't see anything wrong with it.

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1184
Registered: 09-13-2003
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Is a negative mod supposed to remove your existing mod points? In the eight hours since I last visited the forum (yes, I'm a junkie) I've been modded down once, and I have one less mod point to play with.

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Nillo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 550
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Schik wrote:
I did see it, however it's been a busy day and I haven't really even thought about it. Off the top of my head, I don't see anything wrong with it.

If people could moderate old posts I would search through all my posts and delete the bad ones before they get moderated, sort of like a racing game.

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

StuartK
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 564
Registered: 06-10-2003
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How about

1. Rating something negatively costs more than rating it positively. Make a carrot cost less than a stick.

2. Rating an old post costs more than rating a new post. You can go back and rate older posts if you want, but you'll get more bang for your buck if you stick with more recent material.

Koro
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 74
Registered: 01-16-2004
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I just thought I'd pop in to the contrary of what a lot of people are saying in that I really like the system and think we ought to let it run a bit more before tweaking it like crazy. I myself am not going to be cruel enough to grade down on old posts, but I might give old posts good points, and I bet a lot of people feel the same. Not specifically pointed at anyone, but I think the more simple the system is, the more people will be inclined to use it. Two points cost for every moderation is a nice consistant system. It would be difficult to concentrate on when double point Tuesdays occur, or that this post will cost 1.7 points because it was made by a roachling in Russia three months ago. Just making a point with a little hyperbole.

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Sokko
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 336
Registered: 02-25-2003
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But of course, we must have Double Point Tuesdays! And, as a special bonus, you'll get 100 extra mod points if you're the eleventh person to give a Good rating to a randomly selected post made by a Roachling from Africa six months ago!
[/justkidding]

Wow, I don't visit the forum for two days, and when I come back I'm looking at a flood of new posts and an entirely new post rating system. Why do the floods not occur on the days when I check the forums three times in 12 hours? Why? Anyways, nice system you have here and I hope it works out well.

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Nillo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 550
Registered: 01-04-2004
IP: Logged

The modding seems to have died out somewhat.
There must be some way to get new mod points.

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

Isn't the problem that it costs 2 mod points to give someone 1? Won't take long till everyone is out of points.

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1184
Registered: 09-13-2003
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Yes, but if it only took 1 then the system could be abused. You could mod me up, then I could mod you up, and we'd be back where we started except we both have another rank point.

Personally, I'm keeping most of my points back until I see a post that really deserves one, good or bad. I've only modded one post so far (but I won't tell you which one )

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Deploy the... I think it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... WHOOSH!

Koro
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 74
Registered: 01-16-2004
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DiMono wrote:
Personally, I'm keeping most of my points back until I see a post that really deserves one, good or bad. I've only modded one post so far (but I won't tell you which one )

You miser! Let the love flow! Pay it forward! I for one have had trouble hanging on to the points I've gotten for very long. But it takes all types to make a world... or a forum. Just remember where those points you're sitting on came from: impulse spenders like me.

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Vectors are pretty cool, they take your mind off of girls.

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
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Nillo wrote:
The modding seems to have died out somewhat.
There must be some way to get new mod points.

The mods have unlimited mod points, so it's our job to seed the system.

Matt

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Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5533
Registered: 02-04-2003
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It now costs more to moderate already-moderated posts. I used the system that Mike suggested here.

To see what moderating any given post would cost, just put your mouse on the Good/Bad link - it will tell you.

Koro
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 74
Registered: 01-16-2004
IP: Logged

First off, I would like to say thanks to Schik for all the time he's obviously been putting into the new system.

Second, the forum has really been slow for me lately. I have a cable connection that loads other sites very fast and runs games nicely etc. But the forum is just crawling even at times when there are hardly any other people on, it takes almost a minute and a half to load a page, even the index. Maybe this should have gone on a more general topic under "Site" but it is a recent thing for me, and I'm wondering if it has to do with the new system.

Third, I personally will not be very inclined to moderate any post at a cost of 3 or more points. Gotta get the bang for your buck you know, but in general, I'm wondering if that system will make +2 or -2 or greater posts rare to find (noting that on the old system I hadn't yet seen a +3 anyway). Also, in this point economy, where does that third (or more) point go in the incremental increase? If you spend 2 points on a post, the recipient gets one point for rank and one for moderating. If you spend three, do they get an extra mod point or does it vanish into oblivion? If it's gone, this will require substantially more seeding by the moderators if the system is used effectively.

Sorry bout all that. A math major goes critiquing...

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Vectors are pretty cool, they take your mind off of girls.

Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5533
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Koro wrote:
First off, I would like to say thanks to Schik for all the time he's obviously been putting into the new system.

It's my pleasure. And my pain, sometimes. But mostly my pleasure.

Second, the forum has really been slow for me lately. I have a cable connection that loads other sites very fast and runs games nicely etc. But the forum is just crawling even at times when there are hardly any other people on, it takes almost a minute and a half to load a page, even the index.

I doubt it's because of the new system - it shouldn't be changing the speed much if at all. Our forum seems to fluctuate in terms of performance. We're in a bit of a low right now.

Third, I personally will not be very inclined to moderate any post at a cost of 3 or more points. Gotta get the bang for your buck you know, but in general, I'm wondering if that system will make +2 or -2 or greater posts rare to find (noting that on the old system I hadn't yet seen a +3 anyway). Also, in this point economy, where does that third (or more) point go in the incremental increase? If you spend 2 points on a post, the recipient gets one point for rank and one for moderating. If you spend three, do they get an extra mod point or does it vanish into oblivion? If it's gone, this will require substantially more seeding by the moderators if the system is used effectively.

Every moderation has the same effect - +/- 1 Mod Point and Rank Point.

This system might discourage +2s and above, but that's okay. We might see more posts getting moderated, instead of one post getting all the attention. And if there's something you feel very strongly about, then you just may be willing to spend that extra point to let the author know. We Moderators will need to seed pretty regularly. By my count, one of us in particular (not me) is doing a much better job at it than the rest of us.

Normal good posts should get you some Mod/Rank points, but if you really want to impress a Moderator and possibly get a large chunk of change, try being creative.
DROD related art, poetry, fiction, etc. For the technically inclined, make a DROD related game. I've got something in the works that will hand out points for submitting good holds for our Holds page. Heck, offer to make an avatar for someone in exchange for some Mod Points. Be creative!

Posting will get you there slowly, but extraordinary efforts might earn you extraordinary results.

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Koro wrote:
noting that on the old system I hadn't yet seen a +3 anyway

No, there were a couple. I think under "Reconstruct the Story"

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

swann_88
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 87
Registered: 06-29-2003
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I hope nobody thought up this sysytem as a way to save the mods some work because it looks like it is going to do just the opposite in order for it to work well

from all the other forums I have been to this is a unique system
perfect for a unique game like DROD
(got to make sure I use the caps so no one hits me with a negative )

I don't think the old posts will be a problem since modding doesn't bump them up
unless you remember a good or bad post really well the time spent finding posts worth modding will discourage it

a good suggestion to get some points out there would be for one of the mods to spend some time in the hints and solutions section giving some points to the first person in each post who really helped the asker to solve the room

[Edited by swann_88 on 03-09-2004 at 02:25 AM GMT]

Nillo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 550
Registered: 01-04-2004
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The_Red_Hawk wrote:

Koro wrote:
noting that on the old system I hadn't yet seen a +3 anyway

No, there were a couple. I think under "Reconstruct the Story"

And I have one in "So Small You Would'nt Even Notice"

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1184
Registered: 09-13-2003
IP: Logged

Scott has a +4 for the Penguin Baseball thread starter in the Anything forum.

Anyway, I gave in and doled out a bunch of mod points. Points for everyone! Like candy! The kind that's not poisoned on hallowe'en!


Edit: Could the page for viewing your moderated posts also show the number of goods and bads each thread has received? I don't know if the database keeps track of this, so it could just not be feasable, but I'm pretty sure there will be (have been?) posts that get modded both ways, and I think it would be nice to see that reflected on the summary page.

[Edited by DiMono on 03-10-2004 at 06:05 PM GMT]

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Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5533
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

DiMono wrote:
Edit: Could the page for viewing your moderated posts also show the number of goods and bads each thread has received?

I just saw this edit today.

You're correct, the database does not keep track of this - it just tracks cumulative points, so without changing the db and writing new code, I can't do this.

masonjason
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 349
Registered: 12-29-2003
IP: Logged

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but what happens if a moderated post is deleted? Are the points returned/taken away from the poster?

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The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
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Yes, I already asked. It doesn't change at all. However, it *does* prevent other people from piling up more mods.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Nillo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 550
Registered: 01-04-2004
IP: Logged

Ánd it *does* prevent people from correcting it if they decide that they modded unfairly.

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

Watcher
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 902
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I'd like to add a bit of feedback regarding negative moderation of posts. Basically, I don't like it.

So far, I've had one post rated negatively, in the "Spiders on all tilesets thread". What I'd like to know is what I'm supposed to do about this.

Am I supposed to learn from it, in order to make better posts next time? If so, I cannot. The reason is that with the current system, I have no idea why the post was rated down. Was it because it was stupid? Off topic? Repeating something that had already been said? Not funny? Sounding like an advertisement for some game? Quoting the task manager on SourceForge? Having a picture in the signature? All of the above? I have no way of telling. All I know is that somebody thinks the post is bad.

And if I'm not supposed to learn from this, then what is the purpose of negative rating? Publically stating "This post is stupid"? If so, I don't like this either. You might achieve the same effect by making a new post in the thread stating so. Except that the feedback in this system is anonymous, does not state any reason, and precedes the actual post, thus encouraging people who are reading a bit quickly to simply skip it. On the whole, I think giving negative ratings discourages people to post, but without really telling them why.

Note that I'm not saying that my post should not have been given a negative rating. Maybe it deserves it, I can't say. But I would rather like to know what the point of the negative ratings is.

Nillo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 550
Registered: 01-04-2004
IP: Logged

It would be nice if I could attach a line of text to the mod that said, for example, "You had a good point".
As it is now, if I wanted to clarify why I modded as I did, I would have to make a new post about it, it would start an argument, and the whole thread would look messy.

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Perhaps you should always have to give a reason when you mod someone.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Drizzo
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 179
Registered: 03-03-2004
IP: Logged

I don't know about always, but it certainly would be nice to give a little message viewable only to the author of the post that they would see if they checked it out. That way on say the reconstruct the story thread, I could have said "the peak of Boo made me giggle like a schoolgirl" and Koro would have known that's why I gave him points, and not just because of his psychedelic snake avatar.

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and business." - Tom Robbins

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2811
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I was hoping the point system would be something easily ignorable and not be something that generates a lot of distracting "meta" conversation. It seems that adding comments to mods would make for endless arguments about what is a good post or not. If someone mods you down, it isn't the end of the world. Like if you're a waiter and somebody gives you a bad tip, hopefully you don't dwell on it longer than a moment. Certainly, you wouldn't track the customer down and demand to know what his reasons were. No, just accept that people sometimes make unfair judgments. In the long run, if you make good posts, you'll get points. And who cares so much about the points anyway? It's just a little game.

I did have one idea though for the people who wanted to participate in meta-discussions about point awards related to specific posts. Put a little "discuss" link next to the message points i.e. "(+2) discuss". The discuss link allows posting in a separate topic, i.e. "MOD: How and Why did you find DROD?". I would also suggest a way to filter these messages out for people who receive e-mail messages. Perhaps these messages would simply go to a "Moderation" board. I'd be tempted to not read any of these messages myself, since I think the whole thing is a bit petty.

-Erik

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