Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

A crack at the week-to-go message:

Hello, again, friend, it's Danforth Strout from Caravel Games. You don't mind if I think of you that way, right? Because, in my mind, you and I really hit it off last time.

Oh, surely you remember the last time we made a deal? Because I remember it fondly. Sometime this week, it'll be a full year since you told me, 'yes! I will have CaravelNet!', and together we made it happen. It was you and me, buddy!

But this isn't a social call, to celebrate that anniversary. No, when that anniversary rolls around, CaravelNet and you will be as strangers. Now, I'll understand if you want this to happen. Really, I will. But I hope you don't. Perhaps you've been busy, and just forgot. Maybe you've been meaning to, and it's taken you this long to get everything ready. But, my friend, you don't have much more time. If you and I are going to do another deal, it's going to need to be soon.

If you're ready, you know where to find me.

(url)

I hope we can make one more deal. For old times sake.

Probably not quite the same voice, though.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

jdyer
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 329
Registered: 03-19-2003
IP: Logged

Here's a try at the 'goodbye' message. I don't think I quite have the character down, but a witty one-liner or two can always be added to augment the effect:

Greetings -- it's Danforth Strout again. You know how you've got a bit of news that's just painful to say--

It is with a heavy heart that I must inform you that your CaravelNet subscription has expired.

There, it's out. Many apologies. No more high scores, no more new fancy new holds from our crack team of puzzle braniacs -- users just like you laboring for hours to provide the highest quality entertainment ever seen, heard, or tasted.

But! Don't despair!

My door is always open for you. No hard feelings, no grudges -- it's still the same twelve dollars a year, should you change your mind.

(provide helpful link)

See? I'm only a link away. I'll be waiting for you out there, on the other side.

---

[Last edited by jdyer at 04-26-2006 11:07 PM]

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

Out of interest, and this has bugged me for a year, but how does anyone know his name is Danforth Strout (Stroud?) ?

I mean... it doesn't appear anywhere in-game, or is that just me missing something?

And yes, I've read the aftersplash screen multiple times looking for it

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
Registered: 01-08-2006
IP: Logged

When you own the demo, not the full version, one of the exit screens begins with something like, "I am Danforth Strout, and I'm the world's greatest salesman!"

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

Well in that case none of the emails would make any sense.
I only know his name from the forums...

RubellaGolda
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 52
Registered: 11-20-2003
IP: Logged

I just renewed my Caravelnet subscription, but there was a hiatus of a week or so...
partly because I moved to another house (Living near The Hague now), but I have to say I was also a bit put off by those last two messages from Danforth Strout. Especially because the last one didn't even include a link to the ordering page any more, it seemed as if one is no longer wanted as a customer after expiration of ones ones subscription.

Sergenth
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 296
Registered: 05-04-2005
IP: Logged

I haven't been bothered by the tone of the Danforth Strout messages, cause I know who he is thanks to the DROD exit screen, and a little bit of the "character" in the ending credits from Journey to Rooted Hold.

But I did get the "Just Go Away" message on May 3rd after I had renewed my Caravel Net account on April 28th -- that was the only confusing thing, though I realized it was just an error.

Last year, Danforth was an inffectual and slighlty abrasive salesman trying to pawn off a service of unknown value. A year later, I can see how Banjooie's characterization of Danforth would be more in-line with reality -- with some success under his belt, he would be a bit more cordial, belatedly taking on the mantle of a more professional salesman.

Either persona is fine by me.

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

Well, I got the email a couple of days ago,but only noticed it today, as hotmail spam-filtered it... that may not be a Very Good thing.

Coudln't really objectively look at it, since I know it's up, and I will renew it.

However, and this I feel strongly about... Who the hell is Danforth Stroud? I'm still confused as to how everyone seems to know everything about him.

Ok, he was in the demo... but I never played it.

So... overall, I felt odd reading that an imaginary person, whose name I've only *heard* about decides he has to convince me to buy something I already have, and moreso want.

So yeah... I'm not renewing.

John259
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 57
Registered: 11-18-2005
IP: Logged

It might be better if the whole concept of Caravel Net was much more clearly explained to people who are new to DROD. I was very confused at being given an offer to pay for what appeared to be purely access to the forum which is free anyway. Somebody in the forums was kind enough to point me to a web page listing what Caravel Net (the subscription one) offers over Caravel Net (the free forum one). Then I tried to find the holds to download on Caravel Net. No joy. Eventually I discovered they are downloaded in the game itself (but is there an obvious option called "Download additional holds? Oh no!). Then I wondered why I couldn't download the Smitemaster Selection holds. Tried for ages. Eventually again someone in the forums kindly explained that they're not available with a trial membership. But these people shouldn't have needed to explain all these things, they should have been made much more obvious in the game itself.

Also, Danforth confuses the distinction between reality and fantasy, which is not a good idea.

So I'm sorry to say that all this has left me with a rather negative opinion of Caravel Net, despite the fact that so many people here obviously regard it so highly. I still hold DROD and its creators in the highest regard though. I'll make a decision regarding subscribing to Caravel Net when I finish JtRH.

Just my opinion.

John

____________________________
2006 A DROD Odyssey: "Open the pod bay doors Halph" - "Not possible!"

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

John259 wrote:
It might be better if the whole concept of Caravel Net was much more clearly explained to people who are new to DROD. I was very confused at being given an offer to pay for what appeared to be purely access to the forum which is free anyway. Somebody in the forums was kind enough to point me to a web page listing what Caravel Net (the subscription one) offers over Caravel Net (the free forum one). Then I tried to find the holds to download on Caravel Net. No joy. Eventually I discovered they are downloaded in the game itself (but is there an obvious option called "Download additional holds? Oh no!). Then I wondered why I couldn't download the Smitemaster Selection holds. Tried for ages. Eventually again someone in the forums kindly explained that they're not available with a trial membership. But these people shouldn't have needed to explain all these things, they should have been made much more obvious in the game itself.
John

Having been in a similar situation, i would have to agree with you.

If only they had put a link to the caravelnet F&Q, or better yet, explained in babysitter terms what to do, and what can go wrong, it would have saved me and Erik considerable time scratching our heads, when the answer was staring us in the face.

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
Rank Points: 679
Registered: 05-01-2005
IP: Logged

I don't know what I'm talking about, having never tried to sell anything since raffle tickets way back in school, but here's what I think:

Banjooie wrote: I'm still of the camp that anyone who's played DROD a month (or a year) knows you guys have a rather twisted sense of humour, but.

I think that's precisely where things go a bit wrong. I'd have thought the same, but it's clearly not the case. Actually, it's not really surprising. If an active user like Syntax can be confused as to who "Danforth" is, you can hardly expect others to be on the right wavelength as to his sense of humour.

Of course the reminders served their purpose with me, but then again, had Erik personally begged me to go away, in two other well-known words, I'd still only be thinking: "Oh! I forgot to renew!" I'm hopelessly addicted, I have a vested interest in the high score table, and I see it as my public duty to keep Syntax from completely dominating every new hold But I can see where others may be a little put off.

jdyer wrote: ...the going away message has to be very nice. This isn't someone who is necessarily going away -- they're maybe just on the brink of renewing, and haven't decided yet. You don't want to push them over the edge the wrong way.

Very important point. I'd say the last message at least (ideally all of them) should rather be something official, with a sincere "we're sorry if you're not happy enough with CaravelNet to renew" sort of tone. Also, if it's looking like someone's not planning to renew, you should be worried, and wonder why. Ask them. Maybe most people will ignore it, but you may just get some valuable feedback.

John259 wrote: Also, Danforth confuses the distinction between reality and fantasy, which is not a good idea.

Another good point. Keep the fantasy in the game, and unpleasant realities such as forking out some of the hard-earned in the realm of, um, reality.

Basically, what I'm saying with all that ramble, is that the usual more official, stodgy sort of emails may be a better idea.

John259
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 57
Registered: 11-18-2005
IP: Logged

Just a few more thoughts on this subject then I'll shut up:

Not everyone is as familiar with DROD as the experts. To many people it's just another computer game and they don't remember tiny details about it. (Sacrilege I know, but true.)

Not everyone is as quick on the uptake as you guys. Correction: hardly anyone is...

Not everyone has English as their native tongue. Having to translate something often makes understanding much more difficult.

Not everyone lives in the USA. Cultural differences may also make understanding more difficult.

Most people only give things a very quick look before discarding them. If they don't understand something which they don't consider vital, it will usually be discarded immediately.

Conclusion: Things need to be as clearly explained as possible.

John

____________________________
2006 A DROD Odyssey: "Open the pod bay doors Halph" - "Not possible!"

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The messages have all been changed to be polite and informational without attempts at humor. This is the most clearcut mistake I've made since we started selling DROD, and I'm rather embarrassed about it. Later I might make the messages slightly more personable, but I'll stay away from fantasy situations or anything that causes confusion.

Also the messages will come from erikh@caravelgames.com instead of danforth@caravelgames.com.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

jamie
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 365
Registered: 04-15-2005
IP: Logged

This is the most clearcut mistake I've made since we started selling DROD, and I'm rather embarrassed about it.

Don't be so hard on yourself....


Sorry, I'll get my coat now! "Taxi for Jones!"

____________________________
#f3i2g# Disclaimer: I'm Welsh, left-handed, and stupid. #f3i2g#

---

[Last edited by jamie at 05-18-2006 06:15 PM]

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

No, no, Erik means that this is the most obvious mistake.

Personally, I would have thought it was when he told me that the Eighth is really a giant fruitcake and the next game is going to be called DROD: Into The Currants.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

And Mattcrampy took him seriously, leading to his mysterious departure from the dev team?

Edit: After a confusing series of levels are produced, of course.

---

[Last edited by Banjooie at 05-19-2006 06:55 AM]

John259
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 57
Registered: 11-18-2005
IP: Logged

Erik's score in my book:
For creating DROD: +1,000,000
For creating Danforth: -0.0000001
John

____________________________
2006 A DROD Odyssey: "Open the pod bay doors Halph" - "Not possible!"

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

I will stand behind the idea that Danforth Strout is still the greatest idea ever.

However, I do have a vicious, and terrible demand.

I demand that his skin colour regain its hue in the licensed version's nag screen. And mention his name. Because he has an awesome name.

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

Banjooie wrote:
And mention his name.

Absolutely! Then I can finally know who this guy is...

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

Banjooie wrote:
And Mattcrampy took him seriously, leading to his mysterious departure from the dev team?

Edit: After a confusing series of levels are produced, of course.

Oh, that's nothing. The game after that was going to be DROD: The Eighth Gets Baked. By that point, I was a bit suspicious, but you never know with these guys. They made talking holes.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

Mattcrampy wrote:
Oh, that's nothing. The game after that was going to be DROD: The Eighth Gets Baked.

I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

Wasn't the ultimate sequel to everything Eighth going to be:

The Ninth: Six Times But Twelve More?

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

Banjooie wrote:

Mattcrampy wrote:
Oh, that's nothing. The game after that was going to be DROD: The Eighth Gets Baked.

I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.

Oh I think it does. Did I not mention that JtRH has talking holes? And little worms that live in the walls, man! And giant eyeballs!

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?