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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Holds : Tunnel Vision (Tunnels)
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Author Name:Tim
Submitted By:Tim
Hold Name:Tunnel Vision
Theme:Tunnels
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Number of Levels:1
Number of Rooms:28
Number of Monsters:320
Version:DROD: Journey to Rooted Hold
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Hold Karma:15 (+15 / -0)
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File: Tunnel Vision.hold (46.9 KB)
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A medium difficulty themed hold...
04-01-2006 at 10:34 AM
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Tim
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Hi!

This hold is created somewhere between October 2005 and January 2006. (with many edits afterwards)

Many thanks to Jacob, Alneyan, Doom and LarryMurk for testing this hold.

Without their inspiration and their patience this hold would never have got finished.

And you, for playing it.

-- Tim

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[Last edited by Tim at 04-01-2006 10:42 AM]
04-01-2006 at 10:35 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Tunnel Vision (+1)  
Ooh, a Tim hold! :)

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04-01-2006 at 03:40 PM
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Rabscuttle
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icon Re: Tunnel Vision (+2)  
One secret to go and two possible locations, neither of which seem reachable. :/

Click here to view the secret text


Another superlative hold from Tim. The double path through was v. nifty. :D
04-01-2006 at 03:41 PM
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Tim
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quote:
Rabscuttle wrote:
Click here to view the secret text

I saw your scores sometime ago, and I must say I was surprised you didn't got that one ;) Really surprised since you got the others easily...
quote:
Another superlative hold from Tim. The double path through was v. nifty. :D
Thanks :) You mean you liked it? Wow.

By the way, I assume that was your rating on the top of this page. Did you really found this hold hard? I mean, I've rebuild some of the rooms to make this one easier... (I still got the harder versions of some rooms somewhere...)

-- Tim

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04-01-2006 at 04:56 PM
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Alneyan
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quote:
Tim wrote:
By the way, I assume that was your rating on the top of this page. Did you really found this hold hard? I mean, I've rebuild some of the rooms to make this one easier... (I still got the harder versions of some rooms somewhere...)


I guess 6 would be my own mark... perhaps even a bit higher, since I'm having trouble with a few rooms. 5 is supposed to stand for KDD taken as a whole, and I would rate your hold higher than that, difficulty-wise (JtRH is around 6 in my book too).

I suspect players have different ways of rating, though. The approach above is very relative, taking one hold as the standard; my difficulty ratings are normally more absolute, assessing how much thinking was required, and how frustrating I've found the hold. So, 6 would stand for "somewhat challenging, not frustrating" on my scale; 8 would be "very challenging and frustrating, in a 'okay, one more try' sense", and 10 would be "very challenging and so frustrating I threw three computers through the window".

Frustration is not limited to hard holds, either: some *very* straightforward rooms are amazingly irritating because they require a lot of mindless effort. Good examples are rooms filled with brains and absolutely nothing else: 1500 brains or so to kill is Tediousness Incarnate. Hmm, perhaps I should make a thread about how people rate holds...
04-01-2006 at 05:33 PM
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Tim
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quote:
Alneyan wrote:
I guess 6 would be my own mark... perhaps even a bit higher, since I'm having trouble with a few rooms. 5 is supposed to stand for KDD taken as a whole, and I would rate your hold higher than that, difficulty-wise (JtRH is around 6 in my book too).
I am having more problems with JtRH than this hold. But then that's perhaps because I know the room's solution before playing... ;)

quote:
[...]So, 6 would stand for "somewhat challenging, not frustrating" on my scale; 8 would be "very challenging and frustrating, in a 'okay, one more try' sense", and 10 would be "very challenging and so frustrating I threw three computers through the window".
I hope you didn't play Bavato's, Perfection or Penthouse then. ;)

quote:
Frustration is not limited to hard holds, either: some *very* straightforward rooms are amazingly irritating because they require a lot of mindless effort. Good examples are rooms filled with brains and absolutely nothing else: 1500 brains or so to kill is Tediousness Incarnate. Hmm, perhaps I should make a thread about how people rate holds...
Well, I agree you might want to make a thread in General, but now I can at least thank you with some rank points ;)

-- Tim

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04-01-2006 at 05:41 PM
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Chaco
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Just played through, then (yay!) used an in-hold feature to go through again and play other rooms.

Tim, this is just... this is just a fantastic hold. Story, puzzles, then MORE STORY AND PUZZLES... :)

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[Last edited by Chaco at 04-01-2006 09:22 PM]
04-01-2006 at 09:21 PM
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Tim
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Chaco, I don't know what to say... Glad you liked it. :blush

-- Tim
04-01-2006 at 09:47 PM
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Blondbeard
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Nice hold! User friendly and with lotīs of puzzles where itīs required to figure out how to do, instead of just doing. I think itīs definitly harder than KDD, but a lot easier than the last levels of JTRH. It is quite some guts you have to put a scripted character saying "this is an excelent room" (or if it was very interesting room...) in every room. I have to admit that the character was right :)

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 04-01-2006 10:00 PM]
04-01-2006 at 10:00 PM
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Tim
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quote:
Blondbeard wrote:
It is quite some guts you have to put a scripted character saying "this is an excelent room" (or if it was very interesting room...) in every room. I have to admit that the character was right :)
I never said anything about "excelent room". It's always "Excellent Choice!" or "Interesting Room!" Besides, it's the character who said this. I do not always agree with the characters in this hold...
quote:
Nice hold! User friendly and with lotīs of puzzles where itīs required to figure out how to do, instead of just doing.
In that case, you might want to try all my other holds; they are all puzzle holds. :)

-- Tim

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04-01-2006 at 11:03 PM
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Gabriel Frostfell
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icon Re: Tunnel Vision (0)  
Hi everyone. I've been having problems with the room below. I'm following the path I marked, clearing eachs ection, but when I get the the last section [8], I can't figure out how to get all the Roach Queens, they end up out of reach for me to kill them and still be able to back track. Any tips? (And if your tip is try the regualr Roahc Room, don't bother, I found that one hard too. :P )



04-02-2006 at 05:41 AM
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Oneiromancer
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Welcome to the forum, Gabriel. We really prefer for people to ask questions about rooms in the Hints and Solutions board. By selecting the room you need help with over there, it lets you either see other posts asking about the same room, or lets you make a new post that other people will be able to easily locate later.

Game on,

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04-02-2006 at 06:36 AM
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Gabriel Frostfell
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quote:
Oneiromancer wrote:
Welcome to the forum, Gabriel. We really prefer for people to ask questions about rooms in the Hints and Solutions board. By selecting the room you need help with over there, it lets you either see other posts asking about the same room, or lets you make a new post that other people will be able to easily locate later.

Game on,


Oh, sorry about that. I figured I would ask here since this thread is about the game. Thanks for the tip. :thumbsup
04-02-2006 at 07:14 AM
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Rabscuttle
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quote:
Tim wrote:
quote:
Rabscuttle wrote:
Click here to view the secret text

I saw your scores sometime ago, and I must say I was surprised you didn't got that one ;) Really surprised since you got the others easily...
quote:
Another superlative hold from Tim. The double path through was v. nifty. :D
Thanks :) You mean you liked it? Wow.

By the way, I assume that was your rating on the top of this page. Did you really found this hold hard? I mean, I've rebuild some of the rooms to make this one easier... (I still got the harder versions of some rooms somewhere...)

-- Tim


I think I initially said 8, but that was just after I finished and I was all "that was fun! I should rate it high!" Then I remembered what the brains meant :) Now that I think about it, I'm probably not very consistant when rating difficulty. There weren't any very trivial rooms (except maybe the C&C room, where it didn't matter) and there were a couple of rooms that required a bit of thought (e.g. the spinny room and the WW/decoy room)


04-02-2006 at 03:11 PM
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Tim
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quote:
Rabscuttle wrote:
I think I initially said 8, but that was just after I finished and I was all "that was fun! I should rate it high!"
To be honest, I thought you might not like it, this hold being a lot easier, and a lot different than Penthouse...
quote:
There weren't any very trivial rooms (except maybe the C&C room, where it didn't matter) and there were a couple of rooms that required a bit of thought (e.g. the spinny room and the WW/decoy room)
Sometimes it's very hard to set the difficulty right, and this hold is clearly not meant for everyone, but if even 12-years-old Chaco ;) can finish one path, then I'm happy.
Click here to view the secret text

Just one last question: Should I do more story holds and more C&C rooms? Or should I go back to Penthouse style holds (harder, less story)? Because, well, writing texts takes much more time than the puzzles...

-- Tim

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04-02-2006 at 10:18 PM
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Chaco
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Story isn't entirely necessary, but it does provide a nice break in between puzzles. A hold that has too many hard puzzles and no story is not good, in my book.

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04-02-2006 at 10:30 PM
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eytanz
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Is it possible to

Click here to view the secret text


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04-02-2006 at 10:45 PM
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Tim
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Eytan, your reasoning is correct.
Click here to view the secret text
-- Tim
04-02-2006 at 10:49 PM
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eytanz
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Okay - Mastered the hold.

This was a really, really cool hold. Cool puzzles, well-crafted story, not too easy but also not too hard. The double path was really well done, especially the way that the story progressed rather than just replayed itself. There was only one room I solved without needing to stop and think about how to solve it, but there was never any point in which I felt I'm banging my head against a wall.

Great work Tim!

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[Last edited by eytanz at 04-02-2006 11:08 PM]
04-02-2006 at 11:08 PM
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larrymurk
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I like the puzzles in all your holds. I think having a unique concept (the twice-through concept) and good storyline just make the hold that much better.

Ultimately I think you want to have fun creating the hold.
04-02-2006 at 11:32 PM
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Tim
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quote:
larrymurk wrote:
Ultimately I think you want to have fun creating the hold.
You are so right! I must say that I never had so much fun making it. Even if it took a lot of time writing the story. :) Hope you had fun playing it...

Yeah, perhaps I should make another hold... Can't promise it would be as good as this one though...

-- Tim *happy*

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04-04-2006 at 09:54 PM
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Jatopian
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Rrr. Great hold, Tim. I've conquered 2 of the secrets, those 2 being
Click here to view the secret text
but can't even find the others... hints?

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06-06-2006 at 10:46 PM
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Tim
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Thanks!

The other two secret rooms are located at:
Click here to view the secret text

I will leave you to find out how to get to them. :)

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06-06-2006 at 10:55 PM
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Jatopian
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quote:
Tim wrote:
Thanks!

The other two secret rooms are located at:
Click here to view the secret text

I will leave you to find out how to get to them. :)
I thought that 2nd one was there, but Erik said architects shouldn't exploit game bugs in architecture...
I found the 1st after a quick forum search and careful observation.

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06-06-2006 at 11:12 PM
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Tim
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Do you think it's a bug? In fact, I did not discover the exit myself until the editor showed me that I should add an exit there...

Anyway, congratulations for mastering the hold. Did you found the Master Room as well? (Of course you have, but just in case...)

[Last edited by Tim at 06-06-2006 11:38 PM]
06-06-2006 at 11:29 PM
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eytanz
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I don't think it's a bug. It's a totally predicatable (if unexpected) result of the way room exits are handled.

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06-06-2006 at 11:39 PM
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Alneyan
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I very much liked the hold, so it's a straight niner with 6 brains of difficulty (some harder than average rooms).

I have felt the hold to have a nearly perfect balance, with most of the rooms being very close to each other in terms of interest or difficulty. They struck very well on the "need some thought but not very difficult" scale that I think Tim was aiming for. The "varied monsters" room near the staircases was the one I've felt to be weakest, though it didn't distract from the hold.

The overall design of the hold is solid, with a clever way to break down linearity and skillfully hidden secret rooms (that mud room was wicked). I can't find anything to fault here really.

As Tim and I discussed during testing, I cannot say I have ever been moved by any story-telling in DROD, and my preference goes to "a few comments from the architect" sort of plot, Penthouse-style (not that you can call that a plot, of course). Still, the story didn't distract me from enjoying the hold, and I guess that's as far as I can go for story-related compliments. :rolleyes
07-01-2006 at 11:01 PM
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jbluestein
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Excellent hold! Probably my favorite Tim hold to date.

Some very good puzzles here (including a few that I haven't solved yet).

At this point I've found two secret rooms (solved one), and solved all non-secret rooms except for the wholly unpleasant room with the rock golems.

Far enough to rate it, anyway: I give it a 9, with 6.5 brains of difficulty. Yummy.



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09-06-2006 at 08:36 PM
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jbluestein
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Aaaannd...mastered! The secret rooms were fun, although they didn't really seem to fit in with the theme of the hold all that much. Behind the master wall was...touching.

And I still don't like the room with the rock golems, but I did manage to beat it, eventually.

Overall, I reiterate my rating, though: 9 quality, 6.5 difficulty. A great, great hold!

Josh

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[Last edited by jbluestein at 09-07-2006 02:47 PM]
09-07-2006 at 02:46 PM
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