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ErikH2000
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icon Robots/Daleks? (0)  
I'm on a mission to figure out who wrote the first version of Robots (in some later versions called "Daleks"). This would be the very old game that ran on Unix systems and had you moving a character on a grid to smash advancing robots into barriers.

If you don't know who it was, maybe you know a way I could find out? I did some Googling, but didn't get very far.

-Erik


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02-27-2006 at 10:20 PM
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Alneyan
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icon Re: Robots/Daleks? (+1)  
For what it's worth, the Robots available on Gnome does not state who first came up with the idea, and the Wikipedia isn't doing any better.

Erik, think about your legacy for the next generations. You should make it clear you *are* the one who made DROD. I suggest writing everywhere that "I, Erik of Caravel Games, in the year 199X, wrote Webfoot DROD", using of course the biggest font you can lay your hands on and a lovely colour (blazing red?). Bonus points if you can use more than three annoying HTML tags while doing so (blink doesn't count).
02-27-2006 at 11:23 PM
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jdyer
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icon Re: Robots/Daleks? (+2)  
This lists the original version as being by Mac Oglesby, which was later revised by Bill Cotter and then modified further by Arnold Loveridge.

http://www.atariarchives.org/morebasicgames/showpage.php?page=26

I don't think this would've popped up on a Google search -- I was just pulling out of my memory that I remember seeing it in one of the Creative Computing books.
02-28-2006 at 12:15 AM
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ErikH2000
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quote:
Alneyan wrote:
For what it's worth, the Robots available on Gnome does not state who first came up with the idea, and the Wikipedia isn't doing any better.

Yeah, I aim to update the Wikipedia page as soon as I find out the original author.
quote:

Erik, think about your legacy for the next generations.

That's incredibly important!

Seriously, I do like the idea that people who create games are correctly credited, particularly classic games like Robots or Black Box.

-Erik

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02-28-2006 at 12:45 AM
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ErikH2000
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jdyer wrote:
This lists the original version as being by Mac Oglesby, which was later revised by Bill Cotter and then modified further by Arnold Loveridge.

Thanks, man! I've sent an e-mail off to a Mac Oglesby. If I'm lucky, I'll have an answer soon.

-Erik

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02-28-2006 at 12:48 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: Robots/Daleks? (+1)  
quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
quote:
Alneyan wrote:
Erik, think about your legacy for the next generations.

That's incredibly important!



Oh, Erik's legacy is assured, at least for a while. I mean, sure, after the nuclear holocaust of 2235, when DROD is the only remaining cultural link to the golden ages of the 21st century, the only survivors will gather in the great underground city of Rooted Hold (formerly Vancouver) and debate whether Erik Hermansen and Mike Rimer actually existed, and if so were they seperate entities or just two names for the same superbeing, but until then, Erik's legacy is pretty secure.

(You'd be happy to known, by the way, that humanity will have learnt from the lesson of the nuclear holocaust, which will have had started by a debate amongst the faithful about whether or not it is cheating to look at demos on the neural Caravelspace in order to optimize your own scores, and these debates will be civil)

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02-28-2006 at 01:18 AM
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gamer_extreme_101
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eytanz wrote:
...and debate whether Erik Hermansen and Mike Rimer actually existed, and if so were they seperate entities or just two names for the same superbeing....
You know, that reminds me of a time back in the days when I was a DROD newbie and just registered on the forums. I could have sworn that they were the same person.

Of course, in my older age, I've learned from it. They are indeed, separate people. All I need to do is find a stone tablet to write that in for the next generations to learn from.

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02-28-2006 at 01:59 AM
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Chalks
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gamer_extreme_101 wrote:
Of course, in my older age, I've learned from it. They are indeed, separate people. All I need to do is find a stone tablet to write that in for the next generations to learn from.

Here you are: Engrave it!
02-28-2006 at 07:38 AM
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Syntax
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File: Chase.txt (3.2 KB)
Downloaded 17 times.
License: Other
From: Not specified
icon Re: Robots/Daleks? (+2)  
More supporting evidence.
The source code mentions Mac Oglesby and the comment dates from 1984 so not sure if you'll get a much older reference...

Original extension = .bas
02-28-2006 at 09:16 PM
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Chalks wrote:
Here you are: Engrave it!
Jeez....look at those prices. Whatdya think, that Erik actually *pays* me to do my job?

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02-28-2006 at 09:21 PM
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ErikH2000
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Yesterday, I talked with Mac Oglesby, who is a really nice guy. His memory is a little foggy on the subject, but he doesn't believe that he wrote Chase. He said that the violent description of the player's death didn't fit his style. Mac used to maintain a library of BASIC programs for the Dartmouth Time Sharing System called "ELEMLIB". He suggests the program may have come from that collection.

The DTSS ran from 1964 to 1967 and was initiated by Tom Kurtz and John Kemeny. Among other accomplishments of the system, it was the birthplace of the BASIC programming language. I'm asking my Robots/Chase question to some people involved with DTSS. I want to at least verify that Robots/Chase ran on it, and if I'm lucky, the original author will also be revealed.

By the way, it's fun picking up a little history here. Kemeny and Kurtz had this vision to bring programming to the masses, and BASIC really was a huge step towards that. Not only did they invent BASIC, but they proselytized it on the Dartmouth campus and other places so that the language really did get spread around to laypeople. If you think about it, those early personal computers didn't have to include a built-in high-level programming language like BASIC. Given their severely limited resources, it seems more probable that they'd come without one. I was like 8 years old when decisions to include BASIC on consumer hardware were made, so I'm no expert. But I have to imagine that if the Dartmouth experiment hadn't been so successful, my Kaypro II and Atari 800XL would have by default allowed me to enter assembly language or machine code instead of "10 PRINT "Erik is awesome! "; 20 GOTO 10". And then I'd have needed to mail off a check to a certain little company to get my programming hobby started. "Mom! Dad! Can I have $349 to buy Microsoft BASIC?" Naw, that wouldn't have flown.

-Erik

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02-28-2006 at 09:52 PM
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Oneiromancer
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That is pretty interesting. I remember doing BASIC programming on my Apple IIc+ back in the mid-80's. I especially remember (although, unfortunately, not the name) these young adult books that were kind of "Choose Your Own Adventure"-like, but they involved programming. Basically you read the story, which had maybe 10 chapters, and for 5-7 of those chapters (or so) you had to make some decision that you made a note of. At the end of the book, they had this long BASIC program that created a game for you, and each decision you made meant a different aspect of the game played differently. For example, you could choose to either move double speed or have double attack power, or something. It was a pretty cool idea, and taught me some good lessons about BASIC from debugging the typos that were printed. :P I never kept up with the programming after elementary school, unfortunately, although I seem to have a pretty good eye for finding bugs in code, even if I'm not so good at writing it up from scratch. (I have a bad memory for memorizing commands, but I have a good eye for patterns and identifying incorrect syntax.)

Game on,

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02-28-2006 at 09:58 PM
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Syntax
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File: chase.png (10.3 KB)
Downloaded 25 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Robots/Daleks? (+1)  
Well I've attached an excerpt from 1978 which suggest that Mac Oglesby didn't create Chase, but in fact wrote a clone of the original Chase...

You'll (probably ?) need a zoom function to read the article...

[EDIT]

Though here's one from 1977 which has "Author unknown", though the html seems to suggest it's Bill Cotter (I'm guessing his version may have been a later implementaion).

http://www.atariarchives.org/bcc2/showpage.php?page=253

[EDIT]

And here's an even earlier ref dating 1976 (though not backed up).
The @ sign breaks the URL so you'll need to copy and paste.

http://www.geocities.com/jeffh57@sbcglobal.net/games/chaseh.htm

[Last edited by Syntax at 02-28-2006 10:10 PM]
02-28-2006 at 10:02 PM
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ErikH2000
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Man, where do you dig this stuff up, Syntax?

Transcription of relevant text:

quote:
We have to estimate and compare, visually, all the time -- while driving, walking, or getting directions, in order to buy raw materials or decide which supermarket line is the shortest. However, visual skill building, which includes estimation and comparison, is often ignored in schools. POUNCE, an amusing chase game by Mac Oglesby, offers a chance for us to practice estimating and comparing short distances. POUNCE can be used by players at several levels of experience. Beginners easily learn how to play, yet the game has enough variety to challenge the more advanced.


-Erik


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02-28-2006 at 10:08 PM
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ErikH2000
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I think even with the new links you found, the oldest confirmed implementation is with Oglesby, who himself says he didn't write it. Bill Cotter and Arnold Loveridge released their versions after him. So there is somebody who made a version before Oglesby still to find, and the original release will likely be earlier than 1976 and on some crufty old system that outputs 10 characters/second.

-Erik

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02-28-2006 at 10:16 PM
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ErikH2000
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quote:
Oneiromancer wrote:
That is pretty interesting. I remember doing BASIC programming on my Apple IIc+ back in the mid-80's. I especially remember (although, unfortunately, not the name) these young adult books that were kind of "Choose Your Own Adventure"-like, but they involved programming.

I vaguely remember a book like that. Man, sometimes I wish I held on to all my old programming books and especially the K-Power magazines.

-Erik

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02-28-2006 at 10:19 PM
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Syntax
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quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
I think even with the new links you found, the oldest confirmed implementation is with Oglesby, who himself says he didn't write it. Bill Cotter and Arnold Loveridge released their versions after him. So there is somebody who made a version before Oglesby still to find, and the original release will likely be earlier than 1976 and on some crufty old system that outputs 10 characters/second.

-Erik

Yeah I absolutely agree, but will keep digging.
What's the exact question you'd like an answer to ?
Who wrote chase or on which system did it run on first ?

[EDIT]

Clarification

[Last edited by Syntax at 02-28-2006 10:24 PM]
02-28-2006 at 10:23 PM
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icon Re: Robots/Daleks? (+1)  
Not sure if any of you will need this in the future, but typing & # 6 4 ; (without spaces) will act like @ in a link but not break it. However, you need to submit it just like that, and hitting "Preview" will revert it to @ in message body.

For example, Syntax's link:

http://www.geocities.com/jeffh57@sbcglobal.net/games/chaseh.htm

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02-28-2006 at 10:24 PM
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Syntax
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quote:
Maurog wrote:
Not sure if any of you will need this in the future, but typing & # 6 4 ; (without spaces) will act like @ in a link but not break it. However, you need to submit it just like that, and hitting "Preview" will revert it to @ in message body.

For example, Syntax's link:

http://www.geocities.com/jeffh57@sbcglobal.net/games/chaseh.htm

You're absolutely right... and to think I do this for a living lol
Guess I manged to switch off tonight ;)

[EDIT]

Bootnote:
In fact, (and a little known fact), is that you don't have to use ";". Any non-numeric character will do. Whether the browser then accepts it is another matter (though works with IE *and*/or FF) :p

[Last edited by Syntax at 02-28-2006 10:30 PM]
02-28-2006 at 10:25 PM
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ErikH2000
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quote:
Syntax wrote:
What's the exact question you'd like an answer to ?
Who wrote chase or on which system did it run on first ?

Both are valuable to know, but the first is more important. Also, it may be that an earlier version was called "Robots" or something else other than "Chase". I'm looking for the guy that based his game on no previously existing computer game of the same type. "Same type" is ambiguous, but we are delving into an era where there weren't many computer games in existence so it actually was possible to write a game with unprecedented design.

-Erik

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02-28-2006 at 10:53 PM
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Syntax
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quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
quote:
Syntax wrote:
What's the exact question you'd like an answer to ?
Who wrote chase or on which system did it run on first ?

Both are valuable to know, but the first is more important. Also, it may be that an earlier version was called "Robots" or something else other than "Chase". I'm looking for the guy that based his game on no previously existing computer game of the same type. "Same type" is ambiguous, but we are delving into an era where there weren't many computer games in existence so it actually was possible to write a game with unprecedented design.

-Erik

Ok to be fair, I confidently believe there's no info online about whoever created the precursor to robots/daleks/chase. However, if you're looking for people who might know, then surely this is the place to start:
http://www.kemenyskids.com/forums/memberlist.php

Kurtz is on there though Kemeny isn't. And although the site is dormant, there are a few email addresses there who might remember "the good old days". Best of luck! Let me know if you have any other queries...

[EDIT]

Any you've probably already seen this:
http://www.dtss.org/timeline.php

Unfortunately it's in updateing mode.

Also, I firmly believe ELEMLIB has nothing to do with it, and I don't think the original tracks back to much beyond early 70s.
If the question is "which game could possibly be the first turn-based, tile-based, monster-based, potentially first thought of 'DROD' type game" then you may be looking at rogue style.

My ex-CTO (55-60 old) used to play a (n|very) early variation on a VAC with ticker tape.

I can try to find out more if this is your goal...

[EDIT]

Just reread your post. I guess that *is* what you're after.
I'll try and track him down...

[Last edited by Syntax at 02-28-2006 11:59 PM]
02-28-2006 at 11:37 PM
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icon Re: Robots/Daleks? (+1)  
This list might also have some good people to try:

http://www.svipx.com/pcc/pccalums.html

It includes the previously mentioned Mac Oglesby and the late Greg Yob of Hunt the Wumpus fame.

For example, Bob Albrecht edited People's Computer Company from 1972 to 1976, and has what appears to be a current email:

http://www.svipx.com/pcc/PCCminipages/z3961aadc.html
03-01-2006 at 12:32 AM
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forgive me if somone already answered this, but why do you want/need to find this?
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by NiroZ at 05-30-2007 04:29 AM]
03-01-2006 at 11:01 AM
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icon Re: Robots/Daleks? (+1)  
DROD is derived, at least in part, from Dalek. Swordplay, the prototype of DROD, was a version of Dalek where the idea was to kill the robots instead of having them run into each other, and the other monsters grew from there.

That's not why, Erik's just exceedingly curious and wants this history to be preserved. But it's also good to know your roots.

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03-01-2006 at 12:39 PM
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quote:
Mattcrampy wrote:
But it's also good to know your roots.


I agree. You really want to know who has root access on your computer, just so you don't offend them, and remember to give them presents. You know, survival and all that.
03-01-2006 at 01:37 PM
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quote:
Syntax wrote:
quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
quote:
Syntax wrote:
What's the exact question you'd like an answer to ?
Who wrote chase or on which system did it run on first ?

Both are valuable to know, but the first is more important. Also, it may be that an earlier version was called "Robots" or something else other than "Chase". I'm looking for the guy that based his game on no previously existing computer game of the same type. "Same type" is ambiguous, but we are delving into an era where there weren't many computer games in existence so it actually was possible to write a game with unprecedented design.

-Erik

Ok to be fair, I confidently believe there's no info online about whoever created the precursor to robots/daleks/chase. However, if you're looking for people who might know, then surely this is the place to start:
http://www.kemenyskids.com/forums/memberlist.php

Kurtz is on there though Kemeny isn't. And although the site is dormant, there are a few email addresses there who might remember "the good old days". Best of luck! Let me know if you have any other queries...

[EDIT]

Any you've probably already seen this:
http://www.dtss.org/timeline.php

Unfortunately it's in updateing mode.

Also, I firmly believe ELEMLIB has nothing to do with it, and I don't think the original tracks back to much beyond early 70s.
If the question is "which game could possibly be the first turn-based, tile-based, monster-based, potentially first thought of 'DROD' type game" then you may be looking at rogue style.

My ex-CTO (55-60 old) used to play a (n|very) early variation on a VAC with ticker tape.



I dunno; dnd only goes back to sometime in 1975, and D&D itself only to mid 1974.
03-21-2006 at 03:25 AM
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jdyer
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No news on this? None of the other people mentioned have written back?
04-18-2006 at 11:43 PM
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I contacted a few different people in the DTSS scene for access to their forum and mailing list. Nobody got back to me. :(

-Erik

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04-18-2006 at 11:46 PM
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icon Re: Robots/Daleks? (+3)  
I hope Erik is still reading this..

Thomas G. Hanlin III wrote Chase.

http://www.tgh3.com/products_games.html

He's also got recent contact info.

(Found this because The CRPG Addict just played a different game by him.)
03-03-2015 at 12:48 PM
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ErikH2000
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I've contacted Thomas to ask him some questions.

-Erik

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