trick
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Look at this:

line 1
line 2
line 3

There shouldn't be any blank lines between the lines above, but there is. The reason is that the forum software automagically converts newlines to <br> and a newline, so that the html code for the above looks like:

<pre>line 1
<br>
line 2
<br>
line 3</pre>

Now, pre tags also automatically preserves newlines, and doesn't require any <br> tags for it to work as intended. What happens here (in my browser, at least - Mozilla Firebird) is that first, an additional newline is inserted in place of the <br>, and then another one is inserted since the <br> is on a line of its own. This can be fixed by disabling the newline->br,newline converter inside code tags.

- Gerry

eytanz
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In my browser (IE6), there are no excess lines in the segment above.

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krammer
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Uh-huh, I think this was mentioned before somewhere...

Nope, can't find it. Anyway, I think someone said it was a Mozilla thing, not the forum. So the solution is to use a different browser.

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trick
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krammer wrote:
So the solution is to use a different browser.

Haha. Funny.

You know, Mozilla is actually the most standards-compliant browser out there. Gazillions of other browsers (including Netscape) are based on its rendering engine, and it's used by at least as many users as IE, if not more. Anyway, i can't use IE in linux, and this happens in other browsers too, even if they don't use the Mozilla/Gecko engine - Konqueror, Opera... It doesn't happen in lynx, but that's a text-only browser.

In any case, requiring users to use a specific browser to make things look the way they should is bad practice.

- Gerry

Schik
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trick wrote:
Gazillions of other browsers (including Netscape) are based on its rendering engine, and it's used by at least as many users as IE, if not more.

Whoa! Really?

A quick search shows some different statistics:
Here's browsers used by visitors of google:

And here (link) is statistics at some browser tracking type site. If these are bogus, sorry, but I *really* don't think Mozilla is overtaking IE. That is NOT to say it's a bad browser, just that the vast majority of people use what comes on their Walmart PC (which isn't Mozilla).

Regardless,

In any case, requiring users to use a specific browser to make things look the way they should is bad practice

Very, very true. Apparently whoever wrote this didn't test on other browsers very well. I'll put it on my to-do list, assuming that it doesn't break IE's rendering (I can't imagine it will).

Oh, and you've browsed here with Lynx? Hehe. Cool.


[Edited by Schik on 07-15-2003 at 08:41 PM GMT: Lynx rocks.]

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trick
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Schik wrote:
A quick search shows some different statistics:
(...)

Okay, okay, i exaggerated a bit.. I try not to talk about things i don't know about (spreads mis-information), but it seems i did this time . Oh well

Don't trust the browser statistics blindly, tho. Most non-IE browsers have an identification feature that allows it to identify itself as IE (or any other browser), which is sadly still required for some websites. Because of that, many people just let their browser id be set at IE, to avoid problems.

Very, very true. Apparently whoever wrote this didn't test on other browsers very well. I'll put it on my to-do list, assuming that it doesn't break IE's rendering (I can't imagine it will).

Thank you

Oh, and you've browsed here with Lynx? Hehe. Cool.

Yah, lynx rocks

- Gerry

[Edited by trick on 07-15-2003 at 09:04 PM GMT: *twak*]

Oneiromancer
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Hey, I just found out about this IE browser "skin" called Avant Browser. It basically just adds extra features to IE, making it closer to being as useful as other browsers but letting you access those few (but increasing number of) sites that "require" IE.

I'm sure that Mattcrampy knows about it too, since it was mentioned on Penny Arcade today, but I thought I would share with the rest of you. It seems to work just fine, is totally free, and can be uninstalled easily. Since it just a skin, any current IE settings and Favorites are automatically accessible. So far I haven't found any problems with it, but if I found I have endorsed a crappy product I will make a Public Service Announcement.

Game on,

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Mattcrampy
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I'm giving Mozilla another go, at the moment (actually, that's not quite true. Screw Mozilla: I'm using Firebird). I may switch to Avant just for the compatibility.

As for the browser wars going on here: the way it stands is that Firebird has many interesting features but not as much support. It may be more standards-compliant than IE, but the pages don't work. Part of this (and this is probably what trick was referring to) is the fact that Firebird is at version 0.6 - that ain't anywhere near release, although the browser is already about as good as IE (despite the fact its Java pop-ups measures err on the side of draconian - sometimes I want it to pop-up). Part of this is the deliberate design decisions to go with standards instead of what everyone does (for example, Mozilla and Firebird both won't ALT text as a tooltip, in contrast to IE and more than a few web designers).

The Firebird designers want their users to take on an 'advocate' role promoting the browser. My thoughts: Pointless. Firebird will only get some sort of strength when Microsoft drops the ball and doesn't update their browser at all (which is very much on the horizon, I might add). Then you'll see the Mozilla/Firebird buttons come out, much as the Netscape buttons did. Who remembers those?

Frankly, the only reason I have Mozilla in the first place is my Gamasutra cookie. I have major troubles logging onto that site.

I haven't ever suffered under the delusion that the Gecko browsers were more popular than IE, mainly because I understand why the majority of people aren't switching to Linux - as Oneiromancer said, they're happy enough with IE.

Matt

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Scott
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I am using Pheonix 0.6 which is what Firebird used to be called. I really like it. The only time I use IE now is for some internet banking that checks what brower you are on. I love the tabbed pages, middle button clicking to open a new tab with the selected link, buttons for frequently used pages etc. All nice features but the main on I love is NO POPUPS

Mattcrampy
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Haven't seen the buttons, but I do like what they've done with bookmarks. I can type in 'drod' and it takes me straight here. I can type in 'word x' and it'll look up x for me in an online dictionary. I can even type 'snopes x' and find out if x is a load of crock.

Have they changed the name in the three days since I last saw the site? Well.

The pop-up blocker is good, but... I'm not in the habit of looking at porn, where it comes in handy, and it gets in the way of a lot of Javascript. With Firebird (as that's what my About box calls it), I can't go and look at the uni site, as it uses Java pop-up trickery to deliver me content. I wish there was some easy way of overriding it, but alas, it doesn't look it.

Matt

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Scott
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Sorry my post must have read wrong and 1 thing I entered was wrong. The version I am using should have read 0.5

Firebird is the new name for it Pheonix was the old name.

I really don't have any problems with any sites that I go to. One that I use has a popup box to login but it doesn't come up automatically you have to click logon. I guess that if you have lots of windows popping up by themselves then you can have problems.

I don't surf porn either but a number of the sites that I do are free but only because they can spam ads at you. This kills almost every ad. One interesting one is theres a site I go to and on ie it first shows an ad then goes to the site with pheonix it never shows that first ad. And thats not popping up a new window its in the main window.

Mattcrampy
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That'd be instatial advertising, the scourge of all decent and upstanding Internet users.

Matt

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trick
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Really short post from me now as my internet connection is really bad at the moment.

* Firebird 0.6 use the same engine as Mozilla (Gecko), so its rendering is more or less identical.
* The problem isn't that Mozilla isn't standards-compliant, it's that other browsers isn't, and web designers take advantage of non-standard features.
* The img alt text is for alternate text for non-graphic browsers, it's not for tooltips. The title text is for tooltips (as in <img src="..." alt="pic of a cow" title="Moo!"> )
* You can enable popups either globally in the config, or on a per-site basis by clicking the little icon in the lower left of the window that appears when the page tries to popup something.

That being said, i don't really like Mozilla that much. Even the "light-weight" Firebird version is a slow memory hog, and it's too strict, imo. Still, as i'm on linux IE isn't an option, and every Opera version i've tried crashes randomly, and konqueror has problems accessing certain pages i need to access (like my bank), it's the best choice for me. Sigh.

Oh, and that code tag bug still isn't fixed. Any chance it will be ? It's really annoying.

- Gerry

Schik
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trick - does the text look right for you now? I think I fixed it.


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--Mahatma Gandhi

Mister
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Fixed in Konqueror!

trick
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Yep, it works great! Thank you, Schik!

Oh, and sorry about that grumpy post i made above. It was one of those days when the entire world seems to be conspiring against you (they've stopped that now, so all is great! )

Mattcrampy
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I started using Mozilla when I saw it had a search bar built into the address bar. I liked that idea. I stopped using it after it became apparant that the search/address bar duo was the only improvement it had over IE, and at the same time wasn't nearly as compatible and had major issues with Flash, Shockwave and even Java, which is inexcusable. It also tried to direct me into its own mail client instead of using Outlook, which always pissed me off.

About 9 months later, I started to wonder whether or not it had improved any, so I went back and re-downloaded it. It had grown bigger, and they were using tabs now. I couldn't be arsed waiting for it to start up every time (it was just a browser, should be snappy), so I looked around and saw Firebird. It loads faster, and it's okay, seeing as it's a WIP - not as compatible, and it still has issues with Shockwave (but who uses Shockwave these days? Everyone uses Flash).

Of course, they broke up the damn search/address bar. The one reason I used Mozilla doesn't exist here.

Matt

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mrimer
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I love using the Google search toolbar right under my address bar.