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Jacob
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I just had a thought: making two roach levels (easy and hard) messes up your whole monster-a-level theme. Therefore I suggest having all the original roach rooms on the same level, but dividing it in two and returning to the 2nd half via stairs on a later level (a la returning to level IX after level X as the hold currently is). What do you think?

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09-29-2006 at 11:20 PM
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Chaco
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Ah, but some of the rooms in the old level 2 were quite easy and some were pretty difficult. That was what I did not like.

However, you're right Jacob. Again.

Actually, I like the idea of having a-monster-a-level hold, but through clever use of staircases make it not seem like one.

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09-30-2006 at 02:09 AM
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Jacob
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Chaco wrote:
Ah, but some of the rooms in the old level 2 were quite easy and some were pretty difficult. That was what I did not like.
That's my point. Divide the level in two (both on the same level, but not accessible to each other) and return to the harder part later. (The rest of your message implies that you understood this however]. Either way, look forward to seeing how it goes.

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09-30-2006 at 11:25 AM
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Chaco
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A new version has come!

Level three and part of level four have been made. The puzzles, I feel, are quite good.

However, I not only would like some opinions on the puzzles when appropriate, but also whether people feel that too many staircases have been used.

As always, the current hold can be found in the first post of this thread.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 11-16-2006 11:03 PM]
11-16-2006 at 11:01 PM
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Kevin_P86
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Perhaps it's just me, but I really can't see how the 2nd part of L3 : 1W is possible...?

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11-17-2006 at 01:23 AM
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Chaco
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You're on top of the door, correct?

Look carefully - there are two differences to this part, not one.
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[Last edited by Chaco at 11-17-2006 01:47 AM]
11-17-2006 at 01:47 AM
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Kevin_P86
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I figured that extra door and orb must be there for a reason...!

So now I'm on L3 2S2W. If I enter from either eastern entrance I can't kill the eastern-most roach. If I enter from the north entrance, I can't kill either of the western-roaches (the ones on the open doors). If I enter from the northwest entrance, I can't kill the northeast roach. That's all the entrances... :)

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11-17-2006 at 03:41 AM
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Chaco
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You have to enter from the eastern stone path (it can be solved the first time you enter the room) Use all the space you've got.
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[Last edited by Chaco at 11-17-2006 03:44 AM]
11-17-2006 at 03:44 AM
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bandit1200
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Chaco wrote:
A new version has come!

Level three and part of level four have been made. The puzzles, I feel, are quite good.

I'm easily confused, but... level 3 and part of level 4 have been made? I already played to level 9. What's happening?
11-17-2006 at 01:41 PM
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Chaco
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I started over due to a comment by Jacob that my architectural style was somewhat inconsistent and that the earlier levels were half-easy and half-difficult. Also level 6 wasn't as high-quality as I wanted it.

That is, in-game you now go from level I (hasn't changed except for plot) to the new level II, and then to the new levels III and IV.

However, all the old levels are still preserved behind a master wall (that's a crumbly wall in this test version)

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11-17-2006 at 08:39 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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Rather good, but i miss the roach queens... you should introuce them somewhere in level 3 or level 4...

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11-17-2006 at 10:07 PM
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Chaco
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I'm planning on introducing those later. (since they spawn monsters and this tends to lead to hordes, which I want to avoid)

Things like bombs and Evil Eyes are probably going to come first.

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11-17-2006 at 11:58 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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Oh ok...

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11-18-2006 at 01:00 AM
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Jacob
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Really liking a lot of the new rooms. I hadn't meant that you should rehash the entire dungeon, but oh well. Hope this doesn't mean you're getting rid of all the old rooms.
More detailed comments soon.

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11-22-2006 at 05:11 PM
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Ezlo
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Yeah, you should keep The Halls of Much at least. That was a very good level.
11-22-2006 at 05:25 PM
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Chaco
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They're not gone; just moved behind a master wall as a "but wait, that wasn't the beginning!"

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11-22-2006 at 05:35 PM
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Ezlo
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I noticed. But it was a good enough level to keep.
11-22-2006 at 05:44 PM
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Chaco
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Yeah, there were a *few* good puzzles in there (2W was my favorite) but I don't really think it was high-quality enough to actually be in a hold.

Although the four-mud-mother room could get very nasty if you didn't handle it correctly.

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11-22-2006 at 06:20 PM
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Ezlo
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Well keep the idea of two halves that are mirror images if you can. That was the most brilliant part of it. :)
11-22-2006 at 07:43 PM
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Jacob
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I think you should definitely retain your previous levels, no reason to get rid of them. With the exception/improvement of Snakes and Ladders, though.

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11-23-2006 at 11:48 AM
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Chaco
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You mean, as part of the "actual" hold and not as "bonus content"?

I suppose I might do that with some reorganization, though I do like the newer puzzles a lot more (my only self-complaint being that the level 3 puzzles are much more complex than the level 2 puzzles)

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[Last edited by Chaco at 11-23-2006 01:23 PM]
11-23-2006 at 01:23 PM
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Jacob
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Chaco wrote:
You mean, as part of the "actual" hold and not as "bonus content"?

Yes, exactly. Cos otherwise you've basically got two different holds in one. Which is kind of odd.

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11-23-2006 at 04:57 PM
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Chaco
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A new version is out again!

I've taken Jacob's suggestion and added some of the more interesting rooms from the old dungeon into appropriate locations in the new dungeon. In addition I've renamed the silly "level I" to "prologue" and renamed the other levels accordingly.

All levels except level 1 have completely new puzzles added to them in addition to the old puzzles, so I suggest you play through again. There's also a new level, with a few bomb puzzles in it. The warp room also lets you go to each individual "section", instead of just to the entrance of each level.

So, give it a go, and don't be afraid to comment or give ideas for improvement.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 12-04-2006 01:17 AM]
12-04-2006 at 01:17 AM
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Ezlo
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Well, the first time you enter the third level, Beethro mentions how he hopes it was okay that he didn't clear the third level yet. I think there is a problem there.
12-04-2006 at 02:22 AM
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Chaco
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Darn, I thought I had changed all the level entrances to reflect that. Oh well. That'll be changed in the next installment.

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12-04-2006 at 02:37 AM
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Ezlo
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I can't seem to do Level 2: 2s 2e again. I can kill the upper right roach but no others. Help?

Plus, 1n 2w doesn't seem to be the same caliber as the rest of the level, it just feels different.
12-04-2006 at 03:04 AM
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Chaco
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There is no level 2 2S2E.

There is a 1S1E, and a 2S, but not 2S2E.

I was thinking that too about 1N2W, so I think I'll replace it with either another trapdoor puzzle or a new one entirely.

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12-04-2006 at 11:27 AM
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bandit1200
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Odd. With this new version, a lot of my restores have Beethro in the walls somewhere, so basically, I can't restore. Even choosing Room Start is no good.
[Last edited by bandit1200 at 12-04-2006 12:51 PM]
12-04-2006 at 12:33 PM
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Chaco
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...Specifically Level 3 Once West and Level 3 Once North Once West, right?

I flipped those two rooms horizontally so they'd fit in the level better. I suggest you restore to level 2, then go down the stairs, or use the warp room.

And yes, level 3 Once West has a puzzle in it, where previously it just had a really boring mimic-lock.

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12-04-2006 at 08:38 PM
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Chaco
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A new version has again been completed!

Level 3 is now complete, and there is another complete wing of level 4 complete. Also, there is another Tar Puzzle available in Once South of the as-of-yet incomplete tar level. (Once West, in case anybody was wondering, was the tar puzzle I originally made for Neather2 but had to recall because it contained JtRH tunnels)

There are some rather tricky puzzles in Level 3 involving invisibility potions and mimics (4N 1W being my favorite) and some interesting fuse puzzles in the new level 4 wing. In addition, I have replaced Level 2 2N2W as per Ezlo's comment.

As a spoiler, I'll say that there is going to be a level based on scripting. To accommodate this, I've added custom floors to the widgets used thus far, to add further consistency.

So, play the new rooms, and feel free to comment on how I'm doing and how I could improve anything.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 12-23-2006 11:01 PM]
12-23-2006 at 11:00 PM
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