Chaco
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The (definitely not final) beta version is ready. It has 5 puzzle-filled levels and was uploaded on February 28th, 2007.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 02-28-2007 11:36 PM]

dreamisle
Level: Goblin

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I get a very good vibe from this hold. It has good starting puzzles and feels like its gonna start out as a beginners' hold then work its way up to harder stuff. It almost reminds me of KDD for some odd reason but i can't put my finger on it.

Note:


Good luck, I can't wait to see more!

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The Hold of Knowledge is a hold I'm working on with a lot of scripting elements that piece together some great puzzles for ya. Check out the tester versions!

Chaco
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dreamisle wrote:
its gonna start out as a beginners' hold then work its way up to harder stuff.

Thanks, that was my intention. Yeah, I made the first few rooms that way intentionally. Especially that one where all you do is backswipe.

dreamisle wrote:
Note:

Click here to view the secret text

×I never got the blue door open of Exit Level message. Did you make it that way purposely or did you forget to set the last room to not be required?

Good luck, I can't wait to see more!

That's odd. You go through all four rooms. In any case, there isn't a blue door, so it doesn't matter.

Were there any scripting anomalies? Obviously, the guards will kill you if you get in their way, but not waiting for plot to go by seems to end up causing odd stuff. I think I reasonably fixed everything though.

Yeah, obviously there'll be more material later. Thanks for the feedback.

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Sergenth
Level: Master Delver
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I have downloaded and played through your first level.

I do like how the prison/dungeon guards lead the way... red carpet treatment for Beethro.

The roach level is very much in the flavor of KDD, though more vanilla than JtRH's equivalent roach levels. My favorite room is the trapdoor-filled room with the roach-release orb at the center.

In Level II: Roaches, I have some comments on some rooms.

2S,1E: More variation and less duplication would be good. Or, you could hide a mean trick inside what appears to be duplication... hehe.



2S: The paths leading to the green doors are a bit too twisty. I would suggest something like "green-door bridges" between the corners of some of the paths, just to create some lovely shortcuts after the room is completed. I only say this because I got irritated going from room to room looking for the roaches that I missed -- the blue door was not opening, even though I had checked the Restore map and saw there were no missed rooms or missed secret rooms.

Then I saw that the last room was set to "Required" in the editor. It was the end of the current version anyway.

I can't wait to see what you have planned for "Snakes and Ladders"!

Chaco
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Eh heh heh. You'll see. Sorry about the required stairwell, I'll fix that immediately. Expect the next version up in a few days.

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Sergenth
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Level 1: Top Prison 1N :

If you start the room and walk all the way to the locked doors, only the guard at the top left will strike his orb.

If you wait at the start of the room, and let the guards go ahead of you, they will properly open the doors shortly after you reach the locked doors.

I know you have them waiting for each other (Wait for NPC) so that they can do the orb thing in tandem, but I can't figure out why they can stop working.

pladams9
Level: Delver

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I've only played through the first level, (I know, no actual fighting yet...) but... I'll do the rest!! Tomorrow! I promise! Anyway:

As has been said, very awesome, great detail/scripting. I have one minor (very, very, very minor) thing to tell you. I opened the bottom two of the four main doors (I also killed the prisoners) and then when I moved farther north and the guards opened all four, it closed the bottom two. I suggest you change those doors to simply open instead of toggle. This makes the effect complete so sadistic prisoner killers don't get annoyed at having to go back and open the doors.

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--pladams9

Chaco
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You're not supposed to let them out! They're there for a reason you know

Anyway, here's an updated version. The stairwell bug is fixed, Sergenth's hint has been taken, and there are two extra rooms. I like both of them, but again, comments please.



NEWEST HOLD FILE IS IN FIRST POST!

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[Last edited by Chaco at 03-12-2006 08:49 PM]

Tim
Level: Smitemaster

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Just played this one as well, which was just as good as I expected.

Comments in secret tags to save space:

Overall: I can't wait to see the next level.

And if you want to know how to make scripted monsters disappear after room completion, read the "Scripting reference guide" in the other Architecture thread.

-- Tim

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Chaco
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Oh, don't worry, I just didn't think of removing them after completion. Yeah, thanks.

Level 3 should be up today.

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Sergenth
Level: Master Delver
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I want more rooms like 3S2W! Those are some great scripted roach encounters. And some are mean and tricksy : !! Extra well done!

Design Philosophy Vent: Adding green doors-as-walls to other rooms as you've done... well, I like my green doors to have a distinct purpose... like a "You've cleaned this room of monsters, now you can access this or that". where this or that is:

1. access to the next room,
2. a shortcut that cuts out much tedious movement
3. some other supremely completionistic, purposeful effect, like allowing access to a note or an NPC or something.

I am not advising you to change the rooms back, just to consider this idea for future rooms since you have shown a welcome proclivity towards green door usage.

Although, for 2S1W, the use of green doors as ALL of the interior walls has removed the need for some of the orb striking, but the addition of the other room to the left probably messes with that purpose too since it used to be a dead-end dealie.

Chaco
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Yeah, I just wanted to prove a point: Green doors were originally intended to stop monsters

Ahem. Anyway, level 3 is up, and there is now incentive to avoid killing the prisoners or trapping the guards in I1N. (Isn't that such a terse way to refer to rooms? )

NEWEST HOLD FILE IS IN FIRST POST!

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[Last edited by Chaco at 03-12-2006 08:49 PM]

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

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Level 2:4S stairs go to end hold instead of Level 3.

Level 3:4S- Unintended/ trivial solution?

Chaco
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Whoops. One of those things that I forgot.

Anyway, I'm currently working on level 4, but there's a scripting bug that I need to squash.

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Tahnan
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Good heavens, is L3-1S1E solvable?

...er, never mind. Solved it. All the same, I'd have given a great deal to get a checkpoint or two in there. There are a lot of points where one false move can doom you.

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[Last edited by Tahnan at 11-23-2005 08:55 AM]

Chaco
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Yeah, I have to admit that one's pretty nasty. Efficiency is a must.

Anyway, I've added checkpoints, and am proceeding along level 4, ignoring the annoying scripting bug. I might just have to get rid of that scene.

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pladams9
Level: Delver

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Oh, I just beat the first two levels. Awesome. Very cool. Anyway, I thought that there were three levels, but it took me to the end hold, so I thought I was mistaken/downloaded the wrong hold file. Then I saw the post above. I'll just play the third level later. But very awesome so far.

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Tim
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I hate quoting myself:

L2 Secret room 2 (The other one was quite simple): [...] And one of the roaches appears one turn later than the others.

and

L1 2N: I'm sure I can kill at least a guard there.

L3 final exit goes back to L2 entrance?

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Chaco
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Stop compulsively trying to kill people!

I was just about to upload the new version, but I guess I'll fix those bugs.

EDIT:

And here you go. In addition to the fourth level being added, I also changed III Once South Once East because it was so stonking hard.

NEWEST HOLD FILE IS IN FIRST POST!

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[Last edited by Chaco at 03-12-2006 08:50 PM]

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
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Pleasant little romp so far, but I'm stuck on the last two rooms I need on level 4. 2S2E, I can't see how to get the wraithwing out through the south. 1S4E, the most ww's I can kill is 7, and there's been a LOT of blood spilled so far in that room.

Chaco
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For 2S2E, kill the roachqueens and roaches first. The wraithwing is a little tricky to maneuver, but basically



For 1S4E, I deliberately made that room very difficult.



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bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
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Heh, I completed them both straight away when I went back to them. I simply couldn't see the wood for the trees in the first one, and in the second I wasn't waving my sword around soon enough.

Tim
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Well, level 4 looks good so far. Except for the scripting in that wall-less room.

Because I'm sure I know what you want in that room, I'll just give you a little challenge: kill the wraithwing last

-- Tim

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Chaco
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Yeah, I realised there was an easy way out. Oh well. The scripting gently turns people to a different idea than pushing it against a wall.

So, nobody commented on 1S2E. How did everyone like the orb-banging wraithwings?

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Tahnan
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Actually, I quite liked them. I should post the odd comment or two about other rooms, as soon as I'm thinking of it again. (I'm glad I had a chance to do the old III-1S1E, by the way--the new one looks easier, but man did I get a sense of accomplishment out of beating the previous one into submission.)

(Also, of course, I realized what a ninny I'd been: I had to copy the hold and edit it in order to get stairs that reached level 3. I then forgot that I could edit in checkpoints if I wanted them. Ah well.)

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
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Tim wrote:
Well, level 4 looks good so far. Except for the scripting in that wall-less room.

It makes it a little too obvious even for someone as dumb as myself.

Because I'm sure I know what you want in that room, I'll just give you a little challenge: kill the wraithwing last

I found it easier to kill the wraithwing last, but only in the respect that it took less moves - it was easy anyway. It could do with the scripting removing, or altering, and more strategically places holes in the floor, much like in 1N4E. I struggled at first in that one because of the lack of room to manipulate the last wraithwing.

Chaco
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Yeah, I'll just get rid of the scripting, then a challenge on the challenge board will be to not kill the wraithwing on the side

Ahem. Anyway, I messed up the level ordering, and forgot a level. Eye Don't Know is next. And yes, that stupidly uncreative level name is indicative of what puzzles the next level has.

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Chaco
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File: Chacos Dungeon.hold (36.1 KB)
Downloaded 89 times.
License: Public Domain

*bump*

After a long delay, Level 5 is up. Eye puzzles galore! There is also another scripting puzzle that simulates my "rolling eye" idea.

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Tahnan
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Of course, I still can't kill that aforementioned last wraithwing in 1N4W.

You'll likely hate me for saying it, but: I think I preferred the old L3-1S1E. I mean, it was hard, but in a good way, and quite satisfying.

Also, a note on L3-2S2W. When Beethro says that he'll never be able to keep up with all the spawn, he's incorrect; I've finished the room without ever closing a door. (Demo on request, if need be.)

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
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I'll take your word for it; I foresaw a challenge on the challenge board saying "Don't close any of the doors." However, I'm sure you can agree that it's a lot harder to do so.

Anyway, I'm sorry you had those feelings for III1S1E, but I found the same room to be horrendously difficult, especially for a third-level room.

EDIT:

As for the wraithwing in IV1N4E, just keep trying. You probably know already that you have to put the wraithwing on the force arrow. Truth is, I didn't really design that room with a specific solution in mind. I just fooled with the wraithwing until I trapped it, and I can't exactly remember how I did it.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 11-30-2005 08:16 PM]