ErikH2000
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So this year I want to put some money into advertising, and fresh from the Dragonflight convention I am preoccupied with an idea that paper-gamers have the right kind of mindset for DROD. They have good attention spans, an abstract capacity, and love for griddy things like maybe 1216 squares of monsters and obstacles. I also know there are many small and medium-sized publishers of games that do a lot of work getting books and boxes onto store shelves. (Or more accurately, into the hands of distributors that get the books and boxes onto store shelves.) So I can do the footwork and talk to publishers about including flyer ads in with their products. It's a feasible thing.

I would like to know what games in board, RPG, tabletop and possibly other genres do you play that might have crossover appeal? I don't expect that there are games that are like paper versions of DROD, but perhaps there are some dungeon-themed games that particularly rely on spatial skills to make decisions. Or games that feature a grid layout with pieces that move based on set rules. Or an RPG with a fictional story sharing the Eighth flavor. I'm looking for some similarities to leverage. Once I have a list of games, I can consider approaching publishers. Also, Hasbro/TSR/Wizards titles are out of my league, so that rules out many popular games.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

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[Last edited by ErikH2000 at 09-04-2005 11:16 PM]

larrymurk
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Also, Hasbro/TSR/Wizards titles are out of my league, so that rules out many popular games.

-Erik

And why is D&D "out of your league?"

I'd think games like Dungeons and Dragons might be a good source.

Oneiromancer
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larrymurk wrote:

ErikH2000 wrote:
Also, Hasbro/TSR/Wizards titles are out of my league, so that rules out many popular games.

-Erik

And why is D&D "out of your league?"

I'd think games like Dungeons and Dragons might be a good source.

Because Erik needs to be able to afford to pay for advertisements with them. I do agree that the kind of tile-based movement could appeal to many D&D-types. Erik, you could advertise at one of the more famous fan sites. http://www.enworld.org/ is a place I used to frequent a lot, and it still seems to be rather popular. (Heh. They are having a sale on advertising right now too.) Webcomics might be another good choice (even though it's not a game)...while Penny Arcade might be too expensive, perhaps 8-bit Theater or Bob & George might be more affordable, for example.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

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[Last edited by Oneiromancer at 09-05-2005 12:55 AM]

ErikH2000
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I guess one of the things I'm looking for is places that haven't even considered taking advertising yet, since it is more likely I can get a good deal with them. So instead of buying ads at 5 or 10 cents a click, I think it's possible to get creative and do much better than that. Most web ads just aren't very profitable--their rates are based on what the people who are in the best position to take advantage of them can pay. For example, on Penny Arcade, you see ads for more mainstream titles, and those ads have a better chance of inspiring the general audience of Penny Arcade to buy a game than DROD would. Margins for ads on websites are very thin. Generally, one hopes to break even on ad costs from immediate sales resulting from an ad.

So I'm particularly interested in finding games people like that are similar to DROD and have a physical distribution. This is a not-obvious idea and perhaps has a good chance of paying off.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

DeamonMonkey
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GamesWorkshop publishes Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k. Both are miniature war games, Fantasy is formation based and 40k is more scrimiage. I'd market more towards the Fantasy game, the people would be more likely to buy DROD.

www.games-workshop.com I believe.

Mattcrampy
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While Penny Arcade seems like a dead-end, perhaps PvP Online would be a better bet? They've taken ads for Spiderweb Software before, and will often do ads using the characters and say nice things about you in the newsbox. I'd ask Spiderweb if advertising with PvP was worth it, first. ( http://www.pvponline.com)

On the subject of webcomics, Girl Genius is still getting its advertising program together. This one actually moved out of print comics to online, and they've had close ties to Cheapass in the past, so it seems like a willing audience. ( http://www.girlgenius.net)

For that matter, try Cheapass Games. They actually do sell computer games, although they're better known for their excellent board games. ( http://www.cheapass.com)

Hope that helps.

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Jacob
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How about an advert on www.nuklearpower.com?
(A seemingly popular and funny comic about fantasy-type stuff)

____________________________
New to DROD? You may want to read this.
My Holds and Levels:

Oneiromancer
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Yeah, that's 8-bit Theater, which I suggested above.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Jacob
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Yeah, that's 8-bit Theater, which I suggested above.

Game on,

Er, yeah, that too.

____________________________
New to DROD? You may want to read this.
My Holds and Levels:

ErikH2000
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There's some decent advertising suggestions here that I'll come back to later.

But what about the games? What are people playing in the realm of paper, plastic, and cardboard?

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Oneiromancer
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ErikH2000 wrote:
But what about the games? What are people playing in the realm of paper, plastic, and cardboard?

For me...nothing, really. I play D&D every so often, and Magic as well, but I haven't played board games in forever. I'm pretty much doing the video gamin' and book readin' thing.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Blondbeard
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Ever played the game Robo Rally? I´m quite sure that people who like that game would like DROD as well. It´s an old Wizards of The Coast game, but they do not publish it anymore.

Also I came across a game by the name Ricochet Robots. A very nice game witch is also gridbased. Try it out if you like. There is a webbased version of the game on http://www.wickle.com/weblog/index.php?content=ricochet

If somebody like this game I´d say that he has a lot of potential for liking DROD too.

MeckMeck GRE
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ErikH2000 wrote:
What are people playing in the realm of paper, plastic, and cardboard?

-Erik

You mean something like LotR tabletop ? Or risk ? Or good old chess ? There are certainly many pages on these games. Aren´t there any special pages on puzzle games ?

Maybe you could also put ads on common pages like "gamehippo.com" or even Yahoo (maybe too expensive).

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[Last edited by MeckMeck GRE at 09-06-2005 09:40 AM]

larrymurk
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Erik,

Maybe I could introduce you to a small shareware developer.

My brother and I wrote a couple logic games about 10 years ago and ended up finding a small company in NY who agreed to publish them. The company is Soleau Software owned by Bill Soleau. They used to produce only logic games, but now also do word and trivia games. Unfortunately, they only make non-violent games.

In any case, I'd be happy to introduce you two if you're interested and you could bounce ideas off each other.

Just let me know if you're interested. If so I can call Bill and arrange for you two to call and/or email each other.

If you care to check out Soleau Software's site.

http://www.soleau.com/

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[Last edited by larrymurk at 09-06-2005 01:57 PM]

rowrow
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[offtopic]I remember Runes, and Quarry. They were 2 great games on the 100 smash games cd.[/offtopic]

____________________________
B'hakhgra Du S'tra Moth'ness Ti!

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[Last edited by rowrow at 09-06-2005 03:05 PM]

stigant
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Fox Trot frequently features the hot new video game. Currently, the mom is really into Nintendogs. Maybe you could get Jason interested in DROD.

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Progress Quest Progress

larrymurk
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I read Games Magazine. I would highly recommend getting in touch with them. They usually review a couple of electronic games in every issue. I think their readrship would be perfect candidates for DROD and a review would be free.

Check out

http://www.gamesmagazine-online.com

ErikH2000
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larrymurk wrote:
Maybe I could introduce you to a small shareware developer.

Jeebus, I forgot about Soleau. They've been around forever, released a ton of games, and no doubt amassed several thousand people on their mailing list. Yeah, Soleau is probably good for me to talk to, but I don't want to make an awkward situation introducing me. I assume they are reasonably accessible, and my just sending them an e-mail would work okay.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Stefan
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larrymurk wrote:
The company is Soleau Software owned by Bill Soleau. They used to produce only logic games, but now also do word and trivia games.

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but is this the same Soleau that created "Tribolo" back in the early 90's? I seem to recall that the creator of that game was named William Soleau, but I may be remembering it wrong. Anyway, I liked that game.

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0.099³

ErikH2000
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Stefan wrote:
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but is this the same Soleau that created "Tribolo" back in the early 90's? I seem to recall that the creator of that game was named William Soleau, but I may be remembering it wrong. Anyway, I liked that game.

Yeah, it's the same company. William = Billiam = Bill

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

larrymurk
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Stefan wrote:

larrymurk wrote:
The company is Soleau Software owned by Bill Soleau. They used to produce only logic games, but now also do word and trivia games.

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but is this the same Soleau that created "Tribolo" back in the early 90's? I seem to recall that the creator of that game was named William Soleau, but I may be remembering it wrong. Anyway, I liked that game.

They have a logic/puzzle game named "Bolo Adventures" which was well done.

Mattcrampy
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Jeebus, I forgot about Soleau. They've been around forever, released a ton of games

Man, larrymurk knows Soleau? That brings back mostly positive memories.

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wackhead_uk
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Just saying, and this is the minorest of sayings, but I discovered the DROD:JtRH demo in an issue of PC gamer or something at a friend's house. However, in the little menu that pops up on the screen when you put the DVD in shows up, the screenshot for JtRH is in fact a screenshot for AE.

larrymurk
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Actually, why not contact all the PC game magazines and see if they'd review it? In particular, I read PCGamer. Any review in a PC game magazine wouldn't cost anything and should hit pc gamers.

ErikH2000
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larrymurk wrote:
Actually, why not contact all the PC game magazines and see if they'd review it? In particular, I read PCGamer. Any review in a PC game magazine wouldn't cost anything and should hit pc gamers.

Yeah, we actually do that. JtRH had press releases sent out to thousands of magazines, websites, and other press outlets. And I send review copies to people. There's probably a little more we could do there, but not much.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Znirk
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ErikH2000 wrote:
But what about the games? What are people playing in the realm of paper, plastic, and cardboard?
-Erik

Maybe you could talk to Looney Labs (looneylabs.com), a small publisher of interesting games somewhere way out in the USA. None of their games are thematically drod-like as far as I'm aware, but as one data point, I own and like several Looney games, and I enjoy drod.

Useless Information (and the reason I thought of them): in his distant past Andy Looney published a computer game that has a few droddish aspects. Icebreaker (out of print) is not turn-based and involves shooting rather than slicing and dicing, and the monsters as well as the player character are all pyramids in different colours, but there are some similarities with drod. Both are puzzle games where the aim is to kill all monsters to get to the next level, any contact with a monster is lethal, and clearing the level and getting out alive often involves using the terrain (walls and pits) to keep the roaches/pyramids off your back.

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[Last edited by Znirk at 09-11-2005 11:34 AM : typo correction; see quote below ]

RubellaGolda
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Maybe you could talk to Looney Labs (looneylabs.com), a small publisher of interesting games somewhere way out in the USA. None of there games are thematically drod-like as far as I'm aware, but as one data point, I own and like several Looney games, and I enjoy drod.

Add one datapoint: I most certainly enjoy both Looney Labs games as well as DROD. They also sell games from other small game companies via their site, but no computer games yet I think.

HopelessAmateur
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ErikH2000 wrote:But what about the games? What are people playing in the realm of paper, plastic, and cardboard?

I'm playing Settlers of Catan, the original (German) board game. It also has expansions and stuff. It can be bought in English but the Jubilee Edition has cooler pieces and is only available in German as far as I know.

You can play online at catan.jsettlers.com

I note from this month's newsletter that you played it at Dragonflight but you don't say whether you played it online or in physical form...

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[Last edited by HopelessAmateur at 09-12-2005 08:41 AM]

stigant
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I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but [url=http://www.puzzles.com www.puzzles.com lists/reviews many puzzles and puzzle type games. It's where I found out about Dave the Worm - a very good puzzle based platformer. It would be a great place to have DROD listed. I don't know what their submission policy is, nor how many people frequent their site. However, they don't seem to have a lot of advertising, and they are involved in educational initiatives, so they may be independently solvent and there might not even be a charge.

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Oneiromancer
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Stigant...I'm so sad you didn't post Dave the Worm in the puzzle games thread. It's great! I think DRODites would love it...don't hold these gems back!

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams