Announcement: Be excellent to each other.


Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : General : Original? (Is DROD or isn't it?)
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Poster Message
Web1992
Level: Roachling
Avatar
Rank Points: 10
Registered: 07-25-2005
IP: Logged
icon Original? (0)  
Is there any other game that came before or after DROD with the same basic gameplay idea? If so, post a link to any, or spout curses at me for even questioning DROD's originality.

____________________________
Feared by roachkind. Like any ordinary human being...
07-25-2005 at 03:28 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Define the 'basic gameplay idea', and I can help you.

If you want the 'you either win or lose' paradigm, there's totally Pong.

OMG, DROD rips off pong! It's so clear to me now.
07-25-2005 at 03:34 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Web1992
Level: Roachling
Avatar
Rank Points: 10
Registered: 07-25-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
LOL. I mean, how the player and monster movement works... Like how you can only turn once clockwise or counterclockwise, 8 directions you can face or take a step in, all over a grid...

____________________________
Feared by roachkind. Like any ordinary human being...

[Last edited by Web1992 at 07-25-2005 03:48 AM : spelling mistake]
07-25-2005 at 03:46 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Rogue comes to mind.
07-25-2005 at 05:08 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 5141
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Banjooie wrote:
Rogue comes to mind.
What?! Rogue totally has no turning at all. It is a grid-based game, but I think DROD is the first game that took advantage of player orientation in such a deep and elegant way.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

[Last edited by mrimer at 07-25-2005 05:25 AM]
07-25-2005 at 05:24 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
jamie
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 365
Registered: 04-15-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Is it possible web1992 recalls the original webfoot drod ?

____________________________
#f3i2g# Disclaimer: I'm Welsh, left-handed, and stupid. #f3i2g#

[Last edited by jamie at 07-25-2005 05:36 AM]
07-25-2005 at 05:33 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Well, yeah. That says something in and of itself about DROD's originality, doesn't it.
07-25-2005 at 05:37 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (+2)  
The game I played previous to DROD that was closest to it was called "Robots", if I remember right. It was on the Kaypro II. My first game programming was changing Robots so it would display some better ASCII characters to represent game objects. The walls were pound signs and I changed them to be this solid-looking character ( chr$(127) ) I found in the ASCII set that looked more wallish.

I actually made a lot of games with the same stop-and-go behavior as Robots because it was easier to make decent games with MBasic on the Kaypro. To draw a room was something like this (from memories twenty years ago):

10 dim a$(10)
20 a$(1) = "#####"
30 a$(2) = "#   #"
40 a$(3) = "#   #"
50 a$(4) = "#   #"
60 a$(5) = "#####"
100 print chr$(26)
120 for i = 1 to 5
130 print a$(i)
140 next i


If I wanted to get some input, I had two choices:

150 command$ = input$(1)


...which waited for me to press one key and then returned it. Or...

150 command$ = inkey$()


...which returned immediately with the key I was currently pressing or an empty string if no key was pressed. Then in response to the key, I'd update the text arrays representing the room and write a "goto 100" to redraw. If I wanted an arcade-style game where everything updated without waiting, then I'd use inkey$(). The trouble was that with an interpreted language printing characters on the screen was terribly terribly slow, and also you saw the cursor dancing all over while it updated. So I had a preference for input$(1) and made a lot of games based on it. If I had started with a Commodore 64 or something more oriented towards games and graphics, then I might have made different programming choices.

One game I saw that seemed amazing to me was Adventure on the Atari 2600. The thing I liked was that the rooms had different kinds of things in them. You'd walk one direction and there'd be a monster you had to fight and then explore another direction and there'd be a big maze. I liked how it was mini-games inside of one game, and the exploration aspect blew me away. In my head, that game world stretched on forever, way beyond what one of those tiny cartridges could hold. I made 3 or 4 input$(1) versions of Adventure, and since they used stop-and-go mechanics they were a lot different--more DROD-like.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

[Last edited by ErikH2000 at 02-11-2006 02:02 AM]
07-25-2005 at 05:54 AM
View Profile Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Oh my God. DROD is Extreme Robots (or Dalek, whatever.)

It seems so obvious now.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?
Click here to view the secret text

07-25-2005 at 07:22 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Extreme Dalek /Pong/, Matt.
07-25-2005 at 07:41 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
No, Dalek is a subset of Pong. Dalek shares the 'either you win or you lose' mechanic with DROD, and has multiple computer opponents that move simply. Pong only has one computer opponent, so it's a subset of the Pong rules.

(Translation: COLOSSAL NERD)

Also, it's [i].

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?
Click here to view the secret text

07-25-2005 at 11:23 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
trick
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2580
Registered: 04-12-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Actually, wouldn't that make Pong a subset of Dalek ? A subset of Pong would be something like two bats but no ball (defeat your opponent by staring), or just a bat (zen version).

Also, Erik, that brings back memories. Whee.

- Gerry
07-25-2005 at 05:19 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (+2)  
I guess I may have played the earliest 3d version of a Drod-clone.

Circa 1986, somewhere in middle England, and at a point when I was obsessed with Solomon's Key on the Atari 520 STf, it occured to me that the rule-based motion of the monsters and the grid layout would lend itself very much to a turn based strategy game where it involved reaching a certain point without getting killed, and having collected a key en-route.

Next day, at school, I set up level 3 (multiple rooms was perfect for movement optimisation) of Solomon's key on a chess board using chess pieces for walls/monsters, and challenged 2 of my mates to beat the level - I merely moved the "monsters" each turn using the Solomon's key AI rules.

Needless to say, they weren't as enthusiastic, and the concept died off by the end of lunch. However, it kicked off a passion of grids, algorithms and a career in maths & coding.

Now imagine how happy I was when I then discovered Drod earlier this year...

:thumbsup
07-25-2005 at 08:25 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
jamie
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 365
Registered: 04-15-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Oh of course... A Beethro with no sword, and roaches that die when they bump into each other...

How could I forget robots!!!

____________________________
#f3i2g# Disclaimer: I'm Welsh, left-handed, and stupid. #f3i2g#
07-25-2005 at 10:28 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
trick wrote:
Actually, wouldn't that make Pong a subset of Dalek ? A subset of Pong would be something like two bats but no ball (defeat your opponent by staring), or just a bat (zen version).

Well, I'm working on the assumption that the more specific you make things the more limiting you make them, so a game with more complex rules is a subset of a game with simpler rules because the amount of possible interactions is more limited.

Admittedly, Pong only allows one-dimensional movement, so maybe this isn't the best approach.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?
Click here to view the secret text

07-26-2005 at 03:22 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Yes, I'm aware there's italics for my various purposes, but I use too many intarweb devices that do not allow for italics.

So I habitually forget and use /'s anyway. :(

But, okay.

EXTREME PONG DALEK!
07-26-2005 at 07:18 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Web1992
Level: Roachling
Avatar
Rank Points: 10
Registered: 07-25-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Webfoot DROD? I saw some screenshots of that... What is it, exactly?

____________________________
Feared by roachkind. Like any ordinary human being...
07-26-2005 at 10:20 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Web1992 wrote:
Webfoot DROD? I saw some screenshots of that... What is it, exactly?
It's just the original version of DROD, which was shareware and didn't have a level editor or checkpoints and used save slots. There's a short history on Wikipedia.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams
07-26-2005 at 10:27 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Maurog
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (+1)  
You aren't a real DROD player if you haven't done the three mommies room in Webfoot DROD :)

Grumble grumble, kids these days are so spoiled. What with them petty checkpoints and that fancy undo thingy...

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!
07-27-2005 at 08:36 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
rowrow
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 432
Registered: 08-17-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
*sigh* :)

____________________________
B'hakhgra Du S'tra Moth'ness Ti!
07-27-2005 at 09:40 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
gamer_extreme_101
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1939
Registered: 03-07-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Maurog wrote:
You aren't a real DROD player if you haven't done the three mommies room in Webfoot DROD :)
Well, when I did it in KDD 2.0, I never used either a checkpoint or an undo. After you play Level 14 in JtRH, tar seems much better to work with. Less problomatic than mud, IMO.

____________________________
--That guy with a million different aliases since he doesn't like this name anymore.
07-27-2005 at 06:06 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Visit Homepage Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Less problomatic than mud, IMO.
I find the rule is that the smaller the space, the more you want mud instead of tar, and vice versa.

Also, I abused checkpoints like /whoamg/ for that area, so I have no room to talk.
07-27-2005 at 06:54 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
I have no idea what 'whoamg' means, but it's my new favourite word.

Maybe I can sneak it into the TCB script...

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?
Click here to view the secret text

07-28-2005 at 12:43 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
I frankly dunno.

I picked it up somewhere on the internet, and then I was like 'man, that's an awesome word' and then I started using it.
07-28-2005 at 06:31 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged
icon Re: Original? (0)  
Urban Dictionary defines it as a more elaborate version of "omg".

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?
Click here to view the secret text

07-29-2005 at 05:03 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts Quote Reply
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : General : Original? (Is DROD or isn't it?)
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.