zex20913
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Okay...MetDROiD inspired me to tackle this monster of a game, and translate (with some parody) it into the world of DROD. I have ideas for everything except:

How to block certain areas (because of a lack of an item) without gates beneath tar, and still maintain a sense of non-linearity.

Right now, my best idea is splitting levels (making copies of them) and sending Beethro to them through different entrances, then adding on or changing as necessary to let people pass.

Not really a bad idea, but I'd like a better one, if they're out there.

Everything else is running around in my head, and if I can get that idea, I can really start on the hold. Which would be monstrous, and probably fairly simple (I'm not much of a hold builder), but enjoyable if you've played Ocarina of Time. (hopefully).

Current status: Kokiri Forest.

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Stefan
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File: Unlock Area.hold (951 bytes)
Downloaded 95 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

How about using something like this (see attached hold)?

In this example hold, you cannot enter 2E before you've completed 1W. No scripting involved.

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zex20913
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I'll probably end up using that as well as the slightly altered levels. Sometimes, several locks are on a place (or should be), rendering the one-lock system less useful than it could be. Specifically, one must beat both the water and fire temples before something happens in Kakariko Village. (No spoilers to give names).

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[Last edited by zex20913 at 06-24-2005 03:41 PM : Probalby!]

zex20913
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Looking back at my last post, I have no clue what "no spoilers to give names" means. At all. I think I'm an idiot.

But! I am an idiot with a question. Is there a way to get speech finished before an event happens? Waiting X turns is not efficient, and I only want my NPC to move after he finishes speaking.

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krammer
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Unfortunately not. Speech is real-time while everything else is turn-based, so there's no way to get it exactly. Waiting x turns may be the only solution.

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"Oook!"

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

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Oh poo. I guess I'll just have to ask people to treat my texts as if they were cutscenes...the Zelda way. Waiting X turns doesn't seem to make too much sense to me.

Maybe I should request a "wait for speech to end" script command...

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Genexile
Level: Roachling
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I've played Ocarina of Time, and if you need help, then you have just to ask me.
I am a proud fan of Zelda since the first, and if you want me to help you (i.e: make Death Mountain) then i'll gladly make it to save time for you.

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Holds in progress:
Fellswicks' Tower|98%|
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Castle War|Complete|
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schep
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File: Four Objects.hold (4.6 KB)
Downloaded 76 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

The biggest problem with using copies of a level for this sort of idea is that unless you can know at every staircase which rooms have and have not been conquered, things will not always be set up consistently when the player returns to old rooms after crossing a plot staircase. Maybe that's not a problem for this hold, but it could be in general. I'd imagine trying to keep changes synched during development would be annoying too.

There are three ways the same room can behave differently when the player enters multiple times:
1. The room has or has not been conquered.
2. The player comes in by a different entrance.
3. An NPC has exited the room permanently.

Stefan already demonstrated a way of using #1 to connect plot across rooms. But as was noted, that method can only put the room in two states, and so it can only test for completion of one task. My attached hold shows how it might be done with #2 or #3, requiring two independent tasks to be completed in each case.

Head east, and see how room entrances can keep track of the tasks. The drawbacks here are obvious: It's ugly (an NPC to strike the orbs might make the exits a bit smaller, but not much) and time-consuming for the architect. In addition, the multiple entrances must be in place in every room the player might visit between accomplishing the first task and the final goal, or the information will be lost. If you go back to the Entrance of my example hold before defeating 2E, you'll need to start the entire east section over again.

West of the Entrance, I used NPCs to get 2W to remember which tasks have been completed. I really like that method.

It occurs to me now that the NPC method could be done even more transparently, so that the player can't even see a difference in the room (unlike the disappearance of the seep characters in my example). For example, with two tasks again, set up three characters:
Secret tag is not really a secret, just a bit long.

Also, I had way too much fun designing this silly hold.

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

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I like the West method there, Schep. I'll probably be using it for things. Thankya! Here're some rank points.

The east method may be usable...but it is somewhat restrictive (as you pointed out.)

I'm expecting plenty of nuisance in building this hold. I'm also hoping that there isn't a limit to hold size. This is going to take a year or so, I do believe.

Current status: Path to the Deku Tree.

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Stefan
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zex20913 wrote:
I'm also hoping that there isn't a limit to hold size.

There is a limit: 99 x 99 rooms per level (49 Times West/North - 49 Times East/South).

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Tim
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Note that even though you can have 99x99 rooms in a level, it won't show up on the minimap correctly. The minimap shows up when you click on the small map on the bottom left.

Let's say that the MetDROiD level fits the screen almost completely, and it's about 20x20 rooms.

-- Tim

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Doom
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Also note that if you're going to upload it to the holds board, the room image feature shows only about 10 and half rooms horisontally. Check MetDROiD for an example. (It's a lot more complex to make hint topics in the usual way for rooms beyond that.) There doesn't seem to be a vertical limit.

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

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Well...hopefully with the amount of level configurations (and levels) I'm planning, that won't be a problem.

If it is...I don't know. I will be hopefully limiting to 10 x 10 for each level. Dungeons may be comprised of more than one level (Water Temple, I.e.)

The Kokiri forest fits in a 3X4 box right now, not including the path to the Deku tree.

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Genexile
Level: Roachling
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... We'll have a problem here, when you will be at the Hyrule Field...
Too much rooms, including the Ranch.
How we'll de the guards-thing when we need to be cautious or we'll be thrown outside?

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geomatrx
Level: Smiter

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I had this dilema to either go with Zelda or Metroid to design a hold on.

Im glad I chose Metroid, so it has given others inspiration to clone other games.

Can't wait for this, and if you need any ideas in converting something, I'm happy to help.

On picking up items though, im sticking with using 'codes' you need to remember, and entering them into a lock using scripts, simply because this uses the smallest amount of floor space.

If you split/make copies of levels, some functionality of the map will be lost (it won't remember if you have been to Kokiri Forest if its a new level)

g

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Deadly Gold Mine of Death (Architecture)

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[Last edited by geomatrx at 06-24-2005 03:41 PM]

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

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That idea for item collection is decent...but Zelda can't really use that all too much, especially because some areas require more than one item to get into, so it would be quite messy to have "hookshot code here"...actually, most of the puzzles only require one thing at a time...but repeated often...I still like my ideas of the crossleveling and copies though.

Although, it will be quite hard to make sure that everything matches up to possible options...side quests and so forth may be in small number.

I doubt I'll be putting in a Biggoron sword trading sequence, that's for sure. And the happy mask guy isn't going in either.

I never cared about him anyway

Probably no pieces of heart too. I may put something saying you got them, but I'm not going to implement them. Too tough.


I think the lack of a map will be alright...I'm trying to make my areas floors distinct enough that people will know where they are (and hopefully they've played Ocarina fully...otherwise there will probably be spoilers for them.)

All for now.

Current status: I never thought the Deku Tree could look so cool.

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[Last edited by zex20913 at 06-24-2005 03:41 PM : I make no sense!]

Genexile
Level: Roachling
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I know!
With the 'code idea', just make 4 codes (the 4 codes will make only one at the end)(i.e: First part: 153, then after 2 rooms; Second part: 875, etc... until you've got 4, like make a full heart!), and just make secret rooms instead of hearts.
Secret rooms are not required, and other hearts aren't, so...


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Holds in progress:
Fellswicks' Tower|98%|
Sub-Levels in progress:
Castle War|Complete|
Summoning Fire|0%|

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1721
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That's possible...but then I'd have to account for either all possible piece of heart combinations (which is a lot) or do a code in a different base.

Also, Beethro is always one-hit killed, so the pieces of heart would not be of any use.

I may have a "You found it!...but you don't know what it is" sort of thing for them.

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geomatrx
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In Metroid (and Zelda) the game was so large that you had to collect other /not required items such as energy and missiles, to justify the size of the game (nobody like walking though endless passageways to find nothing but a dead end).

I will be using 'secret areas for energy tanks, missile expansions and map rooms - all these will contain no codes of course.

For areas that contain the use of more than one item, and given that collecting items does go in a sort of linear direction, the later item takes presedence, and only one code door is set up (example, the catapult code may be used only within the deku tree. once its used, you wouldn't need to use it again, as you have progressed enough to show you got the item).

I am using 'item code required' scrolls, and although they might be 'slightly', it gives the player clear instruction on what they need to get before progressing in the hold (my scripted codes gates im using take up a 3x3 grid to enter the code).

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Get my holds:
MetDROiD AE
MetDROiD Prime
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Deadly Gold Mine of Death (Architecture)

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

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A request for you all:

I would like a transcript of the game's cutscenes. I would do this myself, but I do not have access to my N64 for at least 5 weeks. A lot of it will be changed, but I want to keep the ideas.

Specifically, I would like the cutscenes with The Great Deku Tree, The Kokiri Emerald/Triforce scene, Speaking With Zelda (first time) all of the Sages' speeches, and The Little Deku Tree.

I may or may not use all of them, but I will be ever grateful if I had them to use.

If you want to include other transcriptions as well, fantastic! But I don't think I'll need others at this point.

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Doom
Level: Smitemaster

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W00t for GameFaqs.

This file contains all text in the game... But it's very helpful to know a word or two of the text that you're looking for before searching.

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/n64/file/zelda_ocarina_of_time_dump.txt

There are several different versions of it if you follow the link near the beginning of the file but it's pretty hard to tell differences between each version.

Does that help?

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[Last edited by Doom at 06-24-2005 03:41 PM]

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1721
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Awesome.

For future reference, GameFAQs doesn't like hyperlinks...so you have to enter it manually. But it is there!

(And by "you" I mean "people who want to clicky on the linky".)

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