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Mattcrampy
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icon Watching My Mum Play DROD (+6)  
I visited my parents last weekend, because they've spent about half their life worrying about me and it's a hard habit to break. Mum's been vaguely curious about DROD, and I figured she might like it, as the little computer game experience she's had has been games like Boulderdash and Chip's Challenge, but she's had some issues with downloading the game (in case you're curious, our sudden shunting of people off to Sourceforge on DROD.net is what does it. If you're not familiar with mirrors, it can be somewhat daunting.)

I installed the JtRH demo on Mum's computer, and watched as she played through the first and most of the second level. Let me tell you, it was fascinating. My mother's a clever woman - she has a successful business, with three retail operations, in a market that doesn't normally see success. She just doesn't play computer games, and so I got the rare experience of seeing someone with no pre-conceived ideas about computer games play a game that I knew the design of intimately. Gives me great food for thought.

My mother suffers from Meniere's Disease, which is a catch-all term for 'there's something wrong with your ears, man, I dunno'. It's, needless to say, not exactly a research priority, despite it being a real problem. It's consistantly misdiagnosed and the causes and cures are completely unknown, but we do know that it interferes with the balance centres in our ears. Mum's learnt to deal with it, but things like moving backgrounds can trigger vertigo. Like our title screen, for instance.

I've always thought there should be a standardish option in computer games called something like 'Epileptic Trigger FX' that controls things like flickering lights, fast moving backgrounds and the like, things that might set off sufferes of epilepsy and related diseases. We've gotten a lot better at avoiding these effects, but I think there needs to be more awareness of these sorts of issues in the industry.

Anyway, I grabbed the mouse and dropped Mum into the tutorial, where I learnt that Mum knows my sense of humour really well. It took her a couple of seconds to read the opening text on the tutorial before she turned to me and said, 'You wrote that, didn't you?'

The interface and how to play was explained pretty well, I thought. It was curious how Mum kept using the arrow keys - I figure this is because when using her more usual programs like Word, Excel and HandiTax you use the arrow keys to move around and enter things with the number pad. She started to remember quickly, though. It took a while for Mum to work out what the scrolls were - with scripting, there isn't as much correlation between words on the screen and where you're standing, so it didn't come to her right away. I think this might also be because having scrolls you can read on the floor is a standard game cliche and one people new to computer games wouldn't know.

Note that the tutorial says nothing about monsters.

One of the weaknesses of our storytelling approach is that we weren't really given an opportunity to express in-game the relationship between Beethro and Halph, which Mum asked me about. She wasn't sure about the rocks in the first junction - I explained to Mum that they're just rocks, and they won't attack you. Not sure where that came from, to be honest - maybe from Boulderdash, where the standard assumption is that if you don't know what it is, it'll kill you. The simple logic puzzle threw Mum for a second, but I kept quiet and she figured it out.

And then we got the first roach. I had to encourage Mum that it was all right to kill it, but she took a very cautious approach to it, hiding behind the wall, stepping out and stabbing it. This continued into the next room, where Mum used the same approach on the three roaches.

The next room is where we introduce tunnels, which Mum charged at, and crumbly walls, which Mum also charged at accidentally and died. Mum was very cavalier about death - at the end of the level, where you see the first pit, Mum strode right up to it and bumped it a few times to see what it'd do. (This I put down to not knowing the computer game cliches - in computer games, usually a pit means death.) Several times Mum would die suddenly, including the apparantly horrid scream3, and there'd be no reaction out of Mum apart from the occasional 'Why did I die then?', while room transitions made her jump for about half of the first level.

She ended up getting the three roaches, after a good deal of fear and a bit of thought, and moved on to the force arrow introduction. I must admit I interfered here, as I explained to Mum what the force arrows did. In my defense, she was terrified at all those roaches, and looking at it now it isn't exactly necessary. She completely missed the zigzag speech, and I explained that Halph was showing you how to get past the line of force arrows, so she rewound, expressed disappointment at the lack of a checkpoint, and got past it. She had a bit of trouble at what I thought would be the easiest part, with the wall of force arrows with diagonal gaps in it.

The next room, the tunnel/roach battle, rattled Mum considerably, but she perservered and got to the tunnel pretty quick after a few false starts. It was here that I learnt Mum's origins with computer games, as I first saw her deal with roaches by quickly moving then turning, which in DROD often ends badly. After a few tries, I interfered again and explained that monsters can move diagonally too, so you need to watch out for holes in walls. After Mum sorted out the strategy, she was off.

The next big puzzle room was the tunnel ambush room, where Mum belatedly used the checkpoint. She got the idea that you needed to have your sword the right way before you used the tunnel right off the bat, but I helped her a bit with the strategy in the ambush part of the room. In the next room, Mum inadvertantly (maybe on purpose, I don't know) mastered the art of swiping around corners. She'll work out backswiping before you know it.

In the tenth level exit room, I began to suspect that Mum might not be listening to dialogue when there's a puzzle in the room. I had this confirmed when I watched her during the Halph introduction on level 2, and I found it interesting. I figure that there's lots of dialogue, such as the pit thing introduction, that's poorly placed as it plays during a puzzle while people are focused on the puzzle. I tink I'm responsible for most of it, come to think of it.

On level 2, Mum started to have lots of problems with the roaches. She had some difficulty with the first room, nothing too major, and she soon realised that it wasn't as bad as she thought. The first part of the second room gave her considerable trouble, and I eventually had to suggest that she try moving instead of rotating. It was here she first mentioned she was getting exhausted. The final part, the orb surrounded by crumbly walls, provided Mum with lots of fun, and I saw Mum use approahes I would never have considered to get roaches - I think you might be able to tell a smitemaster by the way they solve rooms, almost like a game fingerprint.

Mum took a while on the roach queen intro room, but by this point she was getting a handle on the game. She described it as being 'kind of like Boulderdash', which is a weird comparison but I can kind of see it.

I'll see if I can remember anything else, but I think that's everything I noticed.

Matt

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04-21-2005 at 09:29 PM
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HopelessAmateur
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icon Re: Watching My Mum Play DROD (0)  
Can I just say I found that absolutely fascinating. I look forward to 'mattsmum' appearing in the high scores table :D
04-21-2005 at 11:03 PM
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ErikH2000
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Yes, fascinating!

There is a balance to find between making the game accessible to more people and keeping its integrity. For example, we would not want to get rid of diagonal keys (or detach them from the orthogonals where they will be forgotten) to accomodate people's instinct to use arrow keys. But I'm interested in small improvements that can be made to make the game new-player-friendly. For example, not having dialogue play in the middle of puzzles.

We did some testing with JtRH and new players. It was quite valuable and I wish I had gotten more feedback from new players. If anyone has an opportunity to watch quietly over someone's shoulder like Matt did, I would love to read about your findings. Also, Matt, I don't know if your mum is throwing in the towel, but if her DROD story continues, please keep us updated.

-Erik

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04-21-2005 at 11:17 PM
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stigant
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icon Re: Watching My Mum Play DROD (0)  
My wife occasionally watches me play over my shoulder. Its interesting to see a non-gamer (although, I hesitate to call her a non-gamer... she's really into the Sims and various titles in the Age of Empires line, but not puzzle/rpg/dugeon exploration games) question things that I take for granted. An example: the first time I had to drop a red door in KDD, there was no way that I could KNOW that I had to drop all the trap doors. But all my gaming experience screamed: That's a new element, its the same color as the trap doors, I'll bet you have to drop all the trap doors. Perfectly logical, right? But if my wife had been playing (though I doubt she would have made it far enough to get to red doors), she probably would have been stuck for days on that room.

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04-21-2005 at 11:51 PM
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jdyer
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ErikH2000 wrote:
But I'm interested in small improvements that can be made to make the game new-player-friendly. For example, not having dialogue play in the middle of puzzles.

The thing that bothers me most is having dialogue play in puzzles where one can die. I recall at least three rooms where I had to shut off my speakers so I wouldn't have to listen to the characters go through the same lines yet another time while I tried to figure out what to do.
04-22-2005 at 12:24 AM
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ErikH2000
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jdyer wrote:
The thing that bothers me most is having dialogue play in puzzles where one can die. I recall at least three rooms where I had to shut off my speakers so I wouldn't have to listen to the characters go through the same lines yet another time while I tried to figure out what to do.
Sure, and we were conscious of that while designing rooms, but we didn't fix every place it came up. In the future, we should be more careful. For now, I suggest to thumb that spacebar, which can also be called the "shut up" bar.

-Erik

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04-22-2005 at 12:40 AM
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swann_88
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icon Re: Watching My Mum Play DROD (0)  
I figure that there's lots of dialogue, such as the pit thing introduction, that's poorly placed as it plays during a puzzle while people are focused on the puzzle

I kind of thought some of this was planned
for instance there is one place where halph? speaks
and the text falls right over the entrance to a secret passage as you go by it

04-22-2005 at 03:41 PM
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Penumbra
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Mattcrampy wrote:
I installed the JtRH demo on Mum's computer...

You could at least give your Mother a complimentary copy, seeing as she brought you into the world and all :)
04-22-2005 at 04:43 PM
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Mattcrampy
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I didn't want to go defrauding Caravel when I wasn't entirely sure Mum would go for the game.

Actually, I'm rather in a fix here: Mum has a rather... shall we say... cavalier attitude to piracy, and I'm naturally uncomfortable with defrauding Caravel. On the other hand, there's a chance that I can convince Mum to buy a copy of the game for herself if she continues to enjoy it, because it'll be supporting a hobby of mine and that's what parents do. But as I mentioned, the scrolling map background is a significant problem for Mum, so I'd probably have to hack a copy of JtRH, or have one hacked, so the map stays still and doesn't inadvertantly force her to hold onto the chair until the world stops spinning.

Whatever solution ends up playing out, the preferred solution will be the one in which the map stays rock solid.

Matt

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04-22-2005 at 06:06 PM
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mrimer
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This is very interesting to know. I had my wife play through the first few levels during beta. She's a computer novice but enjoys the overall DROD experience. I noticed I had to give her several semantic hints on how to deal with most, if not all, of the game elements. The tutorial is a good step in this direction, yet I agree that fighting monsters is not intuitive to the DROD rookie. I've got a plan for DROD 3 that will make introductions to semantic elements more straightforward, and hopefully will be enjoyable to new players and veterans alike.
Mattcrampy wrote:
Whatever solution ends up playing out, the preferred solution will be the one in which the map stays rock solid.
I can see things like this being an issue for people. I'm working on a patch right now that (among several other things) has the background map not scroll if you choose the lower quality graphics option. Unfortunately, this is just a solution to prevent ugly frame rates on lower-end systems in general and not to address rare and specific user needs. Additional settings parameters can be implemented to tweak things here and there like this...but the unfortunate thing is that most people who aren't heavily into computer games (regardless of whether this very thing is the cause or the effect) have a difficult time realizing that such things exist to be taken advantage of. IMO, this is both our loss and theirs.

[Edited by mrimer at Local Time:04-22-2005 at 06:44 PM]

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04-22-2005 at 06:43 PM
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Krishh
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You could just replace the map bitmap in the bitmaps directory (data\\Bitmaps\\TitleMap.jpg) with a block of a single color. It would actually still scroll, but would appear still. The main menu would of course not look very good, but this is still better for your mom.

[Edited by Krishh at Local Time:04-22-2005 at 07:07 PM]
04-22-2005 at 07:04 PM
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Ravon
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To me, my mom is a genious, yet although I've tried many many times to introduce her to DROD, she only gets as far as the second or third level. Usually when there's a new element, I might have to show her how it works once, but after that, she can be better than me at it. I tell her this but for some reason she still thinks I'm godly to be on the 8th level (why should I correct her?)

Anyway, that's my bit
04-23-2005 at 02:47 AM
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minhtuan
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I gave DROD to some of my friends and see they play for about 30mins. Quite nice to see them play, as I could recall my own novice experience.

Overall, there is always fear about moving around (they think DROD is action game) and refuse to go, just rotating the sword a full clock again and again (I think the sound is cute :))

After wait for a while my friend carefully step out a bit, then more. He has to get used to the key controls, and the ideas of moving diagonals is quite new to him. Understandably, he is just moving use 4 ways as normal.

Orbs and doors: he refuse to go through the doors, think that they will lock him out.

Meeting the first roach: he was gingerly moving, and when he saw a roach moving toward Beethro, he stopped and waited. He asked me how to kill it, and don't want to go directly toward it, asking me if there is a key to fight this monster.

Quickly two of my friends playing and debating over how to get through a room. They get lost after a while finding the exit room at L1 and have to ask me to do so. I let them try the Restore screen and show how to use it to look at rooms bird-eye.

Now they are about L4 and are happy playing DROD. At L3 they have to ask me about crumble walls, but that's all.

04-24-2005 at 11:30 AM
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wackhead_uk
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I showed one of my friends how to play DROD once, only to discover that he had given up but his Dad had become addicted to it. I think he's at level 8 now.
04-24-2005 at 11:36 AM
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