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wackhead_uk
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icon I want your brains! (+2)  
This game was discussed in the 'other good puzzle games' thread and it is truly amazing to create your own things.

So, if you feel like you need to share thigns with us, post your brains here.

Attached is my XOR gate, made needlessly complicated (I only started it a few days ago).

http://www.biologic.com.au/bugbrain/

[Edited by wackhead_uk at Local Time:04-24-2005 at 11:40 AM: Added link]
04-20-2005 at 11:01 PM
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Maurog
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icon Re: I want your brains! (0)  
My gosh, that's one complicated xor... you really only need two neurons for that :)

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04-21-2005 at 07:51 AM
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wackhead_uk
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It seemed better my way :P .
04-21-2005 at 12:13 PM
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eytanz
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icon Re: I want your brains! (0)  
Well, I like my gate-opening worm brain (worm 4) a lot better than the one they give on the website - their solution uses 10 neurons and 2 nodes, mine only uses 7 neurons (though I do use the height input which they don't). I also think my layout is nicer...

(oh, and by the way, I didn't cheat and use theirs for referrence, I just compared it to mine after I solved the level).


[Edited by eytanz at Local Time:04-23-2005 at 02:49 PM]

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04-23-2005 at 02:48 PM
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Ravon
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I got this game yesterday and its amazing (though I suck at it)
my xor gate had 3 neurons, though its been nagging me whenever I'm away from the computer that I should have been able to do it with two.
I'm currently stuck on the lady bug ones (no help please)
04-24-2005 at 01:18 AM
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b0rsuk
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icon Re: I want your brains! (0)  
Squirrels told me XOR is possible with just 1 neuron. The brain is available for download at the website.

NOTE: I didn't play BugBrain so far. Really.

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04-24-2005 at 10:15 AM
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Maurog
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XOR isn't possible with just one neuron... that's the major issue of XOR. I think there is a scientific proof on that somewhere.

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04-24-2005 at 11:10 AM
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Krishh
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icon Re: I want your brains! (0)  
Maurog, can you explain how the two 1 neuron xors availavle on their web-page are cheating than?
04-24-2005 at 12:02 PM
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Maurog
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Weeell, actually they are cheating :)
These XORs only work because the software isn't perfect and can be confused. Hardware can't, so you can't really build these chip designs and expect them to produce a XOR.

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04-24-2005 at 12:28 PM
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eytanz
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icon Re: I want your brains! (+2)  
Specifically, the two "1-neuron XORs" on the website are both based on the fact that the data that the XOR gets is fully predictable in this game, as is the desired result. They both use feedback loops and decays to turn on and off at the same times a true XOR would, given that input; but they wouldn't work if the input was different.

In other words, they are 1-neuron solutions to a puzzle that can also be solved by a XOR; that doesn't make them a XOR.

[Edited by eytanz at Local Time:04-24-2005 at 02:25 PM]

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04-24-2005 at 02:20 PM
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Krishh
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Thanks, eytanz, that was the answer I was looking for.
04-24-2005 at 04:09 PM
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silver
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icon Re: I want your brains! (+1)  
I made a 3 neuron xor because I was too doing too much symbolic logic and just said "it's (A or B) and not (A and B)" so I did one neuron for AorB, one for AandB and one for first-neuron plus not-second-neuron. made sense to me.

I like my basic ant engine because I used 12 neurons to their 18 or 20, and didn't know about text labels, so I laid it out so "forward, left, right, back" are laid out in a little cross of nodes where you can tell by the position which is which. I did use some excess nodes, but only because I was trying to make a symmetrical layout.

after it was done, I wanted to code a "real ant" which random searches until it finds food, then goes back there searching for food, but with only one level of scent (and non-decaying) I'm not sure how to do that. a real ant would lay a weak scent while scouting. return laying a stronger scent if it found food. go back not really adding to the scent, but make the scent stronger still if it came back with more food... basically the more successful the route is, the more times it comes back with a stronger scent so it becomes a really powerful scent and you end up with a huge line of ants all marching in a line...

until the food wears out and the scent fades away and then you have ants random searching for food again.

I can make a world with a couple or three randomly placed piles of 30 mushrooms, but with just one kind of scent the behavior would be all wrong :/


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04-25-2005 at 02:48 AM
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Chalks
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hmm...i just downloaded this game (puzzle...whatever it is) and started playin' it. :thumbsup quite fun. it's very confusing at first though... (mainly cause I didn't read the manual)
04-25-2005 at 03:50 AM
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silver
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icon Re: I want your brains! (0)  
er. my ant base has 14 neurons, not 12. I see why I got away with fewer than the "solution" ant brain, though. instead of using the timer to "and" directional movement with the legs I want to move, I use the timer to inhibit the legs I DON'T want to move. and I double checked, all my nodes are purely aesthetic - I had plenty of outputs to replace all my nodes with direct lines.

(edit: ant base brain attached)

(edit again: by going to the workshop I could load the ant base brain, but without an underlying ant supporting world, the nodes blank out. the three important nodes are "leg back" in the top group, "leg foward" in the middle group, and "leg up" in the bottom group)

more edit:
about their solution for "halt and be recognized" - I think if their solution works, it's by pure luck or something limited about the environment. in general, the ant not only hears the sound the guard makes, it also hears itself when it makes a tone, so unless you suppress the "listening" while playing, you will generate a feedback loop external to any shown on the brain board :).

I also detected a bit of luck with the "follow the lights" level - it's easily possible to follow the last light and end up next to the food without being on the food. and by luck I mean I could run the same brain from the same start and sometimes find the food and sometimes not - something non-deterministic about it, but I can't see what.


[Edited by silver at Local Time:04-25-2005 at 04:37 AM]

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04-25-2005 at 04:23 AM
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