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Give reasons to support your opinion!

Mattcrampy
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I question the timed poll. Reason: This question will still be as relevant in 9 weeks.

First thing out of the gate is that it entirely depends on the games and your tastes. Hardware is pretty much a non-issue at this point of development, as all of the hardware can support pretty much anything a developer would like to do.

I very much like the Xbox's BIOS, and the idea of a hard drive. I like that console games can just assume there's save space while still clinging to the standard console save file formats. And I've always had a distaste for revealing too much of the underlying mechanics of the save format (see PS2 telling us how many megabytes I have. It's not elegant.)

On the other hand, the PS2 has the largest library of games, and a large portion of games that I'd like to play (Ka-ti-ma-ri da-man-cy!) I've already played Halo, thought the single-player was rather weak, multiplayer was good but that involves having friends to play with. Xbox Live is a bit more compelling now I have broadband, but I've got more games I'd like to play on PS2 than on Xbox. So I'd have to say PS2 at this point in time.

Actually, I'm kind of interested to see how this plays out, because while this is the ol' "System Wars" question, we've got a lot of respectful people here, so it most likely won't devolve into a rash of name-calling and 'uh-huh' 'nuh-uh', and a lot of people here play and like their GameCube (myself included), which adds an added dimension into the mix.

Matt

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stigant
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I'm by no means an expert, and I've had a lot more experience xbox than ps, so I'm biased that way. And as Matt said, a lot is the games that you want to play. Personally, I prefer the feel of the xbox controller (stype) to the feel of the ps2 controller. But then its possible that ps2 has a better/different controller, and its certainly possible that I simply prefer that which I use more often. Also, at the time that I was playing more console games (a couple of years ago), I had a lot of friends that played Halo, so XBox was our system of choice.

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ErikH2000
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I like Gamecube best and therefore refuse to vote in this poll!

-Erik

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Oneiromancer
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There haven't really been any games on the XBox I thought were worth buying the console for. Right now I play my GameCube much more than my PS2, but that varies on what game I am more interested in. There are some great games coming out for both systems in the rest of the year, so I am sure I will be playing both. And maybe around Christmas I'll pick up a PSP when the new version is released (not really sure on what will change, but that's what I hear).

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

TripleM
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I bought my PS2 rather than an XBOX purely because I knew that the original playstation was reliable (not being made by microsoft etc). That was quite early on after the release of the xbox, so that wasn't based on comparing the quality of the two, really.

Mattcrampy
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ErikH2000 wrote:
I like Gamecube best and therefore refuse to vote in this poll!

-Erik

I'm curious - does Webfoot do a lot of PS2/Xbox development, Erik? I'm interested to know what the machines are like from a development standpoint.

I've heard the PS2 is difficult to develop for, but I have one friend who insists it's merely "different".

Be interested to hear your co-worker's thoughts on the matter. Or yours, if you've done some coding on the machines.

Matt

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ErikH2000
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Mattcrampy wrote:
I'm curious - does Webfoot do a lot of PS2/Xbox development, Erik? I'm interested to know what the machines are like from a development standpoint.

Sorry, I can't talk about that. NDA and all. So many interesting Webfoot things I would blab on about if it weren't for the NDA. Not that I have dirt or anything like that--its just an interesting company.

I've heard the PS2 is difficult to develop for, but I have one friend who insists it's merely "different".

Be interested to hear your co-worker's thoughts on the matter. Or yours, if you've done some coding on the machines.

I don't know anything about console programming really. Closest I came to that was GBA for Dragonball Z: Buu's Fury, but I was purely scripting on that project--no code. As for my co-workers, if I invite them over here then they will know how much time I don't spend working on the projects Webfoot gives me. Hey, I should probably get back to that.

-Erik

____________________________
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dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

ErikH2000
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I don't know if I made a good purchasing decision or not, but last month I decided to get just one console system for the house and I went for the GameCube. I think mainly because I've enjoyed Nintendo's games so much over the years. I mean the ones that Nintendo actually makes with Mario and Luigi and Zelda all that--not the licensee titles. I wanted lots of simple multiplayer games I could play with my wife so we could have something cheap and easy to do in the evening other than watch TV. It seemed like for the GameCube there were a bunch of good games that weren't marketed to the nerdosterone crowd that mainly wants a visceral experience. I like cartoonish graphics, funny characters, simple gameplay, and so does my wife--it takes the edge off. It seems like there are a lot of titles like this on the GameCube, plus the whole Mario franchise I'm fond of.

In my GameFly queue, Brittany and I have got these picked to be sent to us:

* Midway Arcade Treasures
* Simpsons Hit and Run
* SSX 3: Out of Bounds
* Tetris Worlds
* Crash Nitro Kart
* Road Trip: Arcade Edition
* Super Bubble Pop
* Bomberman Generation
* Kirby Air Ride
* Sonic Heroes

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

silver
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when's the console release of JtRH?
(toss in KDD original with voices for background story, then do JtRH levels and bang 40 levels of hold or so which is like tons more play time than most console games give you for your 50$)


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Oneiromancer
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I have Simpsons Hit and Run, and it's great. I am also LOVING Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door...it's such a fresh take on console RPGs, the battles and character customization are actually interesting, and the translation is excellent. I have never laughed out loud at a console RPG before...I have done so at least 3 times on this game. I highly recommend it.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

ErikH2000
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silver wrote:
when's the console release of JtRH?
(toss in KDD original with voices for background story, then do JtRH levels and bang 40 levels of hold or so which is like tons more play time than most console games give you for your 50$)

Believe me, I've thought about things like that. No area of ambition escapes my megalomania!

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

ErikH2000
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Oneiromancer wrote:
I have Simpsons Hit and Run, and it's great.

Yeah, I played this to the end on the PC version. Even if you aren't a Simpsons fan, the game is a lot of fun. If you are a Simpsons fan, then seeing Springfield layed out in three traversible dimensions is cool beyond words. Now, when I watch the show and see certain backgrounds, it's like I've been there. The people who designed the worlds did a great job referencing the show to recreate it. So many details from the episodes were observed.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Oneiromancer
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Yeah, and the GTA-like gameplay is nothing to sneeze at, either.

That's one thing the PS2 and XBox have going for them...the GTA games. Regardless of the content, they are some of the most fun games I've played just in terms of pure video game goodness.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

gamer_extreme_101
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ErikH2000 wrote:
In my GameFly queue, Brittany and I have got these picked to be sent to us:
* Kirby Air Ride

Have fun with that one. It is the stragnest and most annoying racing game I've ever played. There's no acceleration button, and all the major commands are assigned to one key. It was just...weird.

There are a few good GameCube games that I've played. Star Wars: Clone Wars has a few good cooperative and strategic multiplayer mission thingers. Mario Kart speaks for itself. Super Smash Bros is excellent on the Gamecube. Paper Mario is awesome as well.

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Malarame
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The only console I've ever owned was the original Nintendo, and I still play it to this day. When it comes to Clay Shooting, I've never met anyone who could best me. My personal best is 52 levels without missing a single shot.

With that said, I have occasionally played console games at friends' houses. When I was in junior high and high school, I babysat this boy named Jimmy, and he and I would play video games a lot. At first he just had an N64 and we used to play a wrestling game on that (which would always lead to us wrestling for real and me always letting him win ). He later got a Gamecube and I was impressed with a lot of the games we played on that. Especially Simpsons Hit and Run; that game was a lot of fun. Even though he would always kick my ass at whatever we played, it was always fun to play games with him.

A lot of people here at my school love playing Xbox, especialy Halo and Halo 2. I've tried to play them a couple times, but I couldn't stand either one. I don't know what the big deal about those games is. The game itself is boring, the graphics aren't that good, the weapons suck, and playing an fps with a gamepad has to be the worst idea anyone has ever come up with. The only problem is that anytime I say anything negative about Halo or Halo 2, millions of fanboys come out of the woodwork and go absolutely crazy. Fanboys of any game (or movie, *cough*Matrix*cough*) can be really annoying; it's impossible to hold a conversation with them because as soon as you point out a single flaw they stop listening to you and just go off on a rant about how good it is and how wrong you are.

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SKWERLL
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ErikH2000 wrote:
I like Gamecube best and therefore refuse to vote in this poll!

-Erik

Dammit, you just read my mind!

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The best hold in the world!

Sphere
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Xbox. All the way.

Now, don't go a-flaming because you think I'm just another one of those Halo fanboys, because I own both systems. I love the Xbox's internal memory, as well as the fact that it ships with an ethernet port built in. You do't have to pay for it seperately. Then there's the issue of online play. While there is an annual fee of $60 Canadian, what you get for $5 a month is nothing short of spectacular. And there are also free alternatives to Xbox Live. It's also waay easier to mod and Xbox than a PS2, and an Xbox has so many more uses than a gaming machine. The PS2... doesn't. And, while the PS2 does have the GTA games, so does the Xbxo, if a little post-ponedly. So, I have to say Xbox.

SKWERLL
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I changed my mind and decided that They both suck!

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Oneiromancer
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Ah, I have very little interest in multiplayer on consoles. I'm not into FPS games, a MMORPG without a keyboard seems just silly, etc. Definitely the least of my concerns when choosing a system.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

wackhead_uk
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Malarame wrote:
A lot of people here at my school love playing Xbox, especialy Halo and Halo 2. I've tried to play them a couple times, but I couldn't stand either one.

The only good thing about Halo is the multiplayer, and you might as well get it for the PC and play on it for free. The story is really borifying and I didn't even get halfway through the game before I gave it to someone else.

Plus, who ever heard of a 'big release' for the Xbox that wasn't coming out on all the other consoles or the PC.

Krishh
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wackhead_uk wrote:Plus, who ever heard of a 'big release' for the Xbox that wasn't coming out on all the other consoles or the PC.

And that's my big gripe about the whole console wars thing. The best gaming system is undeniably the PC, allowing for better performance and customization. ( at the expense of well, much more expenses though)

The main thing is which console company has more developers/exclusive licenses under them, not the consoles themselves.

[Edited by Krishh at Local Time:04-11-2005 at 11:42 AM]

Mattcrampy
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I'd disagree - PC games are notoriously bad at party games, for instance, and the relatively streamlined interface forces a clarity of design that's rather nice. A game like Mario Kart wouldn't turn up on a PC, because the market for silly games that you can play with your mates is limited to Worms and that's about it.

And vice versa - PC gaming tends to encourage only one person interacting with the computer (unless playing multiplayer, I guess, but it's not the same as jostling your mate to make them lose) and the interface for big PC games can often get very complicated.

For the record, I think DROD could go on a console. Not sure whether it'd work or find an audience, but I think the interface and design can be worked out to our satisfaction on a console.

Matt

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Krishh
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Your average modern PC has a videocard with TV-out and enough USB ports to plug in more gamepads than you'll ever need. My point is, an up-to-date PC could run any of console games better than the consoles they are on, and allows for more options too.

Actually, my main point was that it's not the PS2 that better or worse than the Xbox, it's not the Gamecube that's better than the rest. It the exclusive Nintendo games that are better, the exclusive PS2 games, etc.

Mattcrampy
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I agree with your main point there - the important thing about a system is the games that it runs, not the hardware. It used to matter, but it doesn't really any more.

However, I still disagree with your assertion that the PC is the superior gaming machine, for much the same reasons as I agree with your main point.

If I had to come up with reasons an' stuff, I guess I could say that the variance in hardware and operating systems in a modern PC means that much more code is required to ensure that the PC plays long with as many computers as possible. Bugs and day-of-release patches are not uncommon with PC games, and partly because of the standardised hardware, and partly because developers can't patch their console games, console games tend to be more bug free. On the other hand, most patches later in a game's life introduce new gameplay modes and features, whereas console games can't patch, or at least not until the Xbox. And although I don't care for multiplayer much, it's far more developed on the PC than on consoles, partly because you can make games that require specific hardware on PCs, like a modem, when you can't always do that with consoles.

But still, the important thing is the games available for the systems. The prettiest game means nothing if it sucks.

Matt

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Oneiromancer
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Well, in general I prefer the PC because I grew up with role-playing games of such complexity that you still don't see them on consoles. Perhaps you can make the exception for Morrowind, except it was kind of a step back from the previous games in the series, and didn't have any modding capabilities at all on the XBox (another point for PCs, modding, or user-made levels like for DROD). Now that I enjoy MMORPGs, I also appreciate that you really need a keyboard and the other things a PC can offer to really make one work right.

When it comes to things like platform games, then consoles are almost always better for the newest and the best...but then again, games like N and Jumper which are PC only are excellent. I'll definitely have to agree that it's the platform-exclusive games that make a system. GameCube might be the red-headed stepchild of the current consoles, but I wouldn't give up my Wind Waker, Metroid Prime 1 and 2, and Paper Mario (which I just beat last night, woo-hoo!) for an XBox, nosirree.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Mattcrampy
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They had this Xbox day down at this store half a block from my old house. I went down to have a look, and ended up leaving in disgust.

When I got there, the local radio station were asking for people, and I quote, 'to join the green side'. They'd have to surrender their PS2 to get a new Xbox and some rather poor quality games. I had to actually stop myself from shouting that there are no sides, and chose instead to leave quietly without making a scene.

They ended up sticking fireworks in it and blowing it up. It was a bit sad, especially since I coulda done with a used PS2.

I actually had an Xbox at the time. I had it on extended loan. I had two games worth playing - Halo and Project Gotham Racing 2, which wasn't nearly as good as the Dreamcast version where you could break the game, because they ended up sucking all the fun out of it so you couldn't break the game. I also had Amped, but that wasn't really worth playing after a bit.

Matt

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gamer_extreme_101
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Mattcrampy wrote:
However, I still disagree with your assertion that the PC is the superior gaming machine, for much the same reasons as I agree with your main point.

Hmmm...let's see here. You can buy console games even if you don't own the console it goes with, legally create ROM images of them, buy 4 USB gamepads or what-not (Or get a console controller to USB cable), hook your PC up to a TV, and you'll have ever single game you'll ever need to have a good party. Heck, you can switch between Mario Kart and Halo 2 on a PC without switching consoles or the like.

Steering away from emulation, the only thing that consoles have that PC games don't have is cooperative games, and that annoys the living bejeebus out of me. Halo would have been awesome on PC if you would have been able to do the main mission cooperatively on one computer or with a friend online. PCs have the power and the ability to, it just seems that no game developers are interested in doing such a thing. With the rise in popularity of home entertainment PCs and Windows XP Media Centre Edition, it would be great to have games that you could grab a friend or a family member together, plunk on the living room sofa, grab a gamepad, and play a game together rather than having to fiddle with getting a console all ready for action.



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ErikH2000
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gamer_extreme_101 wrote:
Steering away from emulation, the only thing that consoles have that PC games don't have is cooperative games, and that annoys the living bejeebus out of me.

Yeah, that's kind of why I ended up getting the GameCube. I just wanted to play some games with my wife in the living room. The games that are multiplayer on the PC tend to be in genres for more hardcore players, (fps, rts, mmorpg) which my wife isn't. If you want casual multiplayer games on the PC, it's tough to find them. Oh, and cooperative games--yeah, those are really good when you want to play with Brittany and not irritate her. Like we can play Mario Kart and she throws tortoise shells at cars while I drive. Fun! Not stressful! But if I race against her then she starts getting mad that I'm ahead of her.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Oneiromancer
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My ex and I used to play You Don't Know Jack (all 4 "regular" volumes) to no end together. There are computer versions of board games, like Outburst, or game shows, like Wheel of Fortune, that are fun to play with your s.o. or some friends. If you have 2 computers, you can easily play Diablo 1 or 2 cooperatively in a private realm, and there are other RPGs with online components that let you play privately/cooperatively as well (Dungeon Siege and Darkstone to name two off the top of my head, although they are quite similar to Diablo). Even adventure games can be a blast if you are able to play together, although usually it turned out that one of us beat it first and kept giving the other unsolicited hints. The options are there, if you look for them...and if you enjoy the kinds of games that offer them.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams