AlefBet
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File: GeneralTiles.png (15.4 KB)
Downloaded 430 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Here is a file that people who want to mod JtRH can use as a starting point. Just drop it in your Data/Bitmaps directory and see how abstract (and ugly) it makes your DRODding experience. I don't actually intend people to play DROD this way (although you're welcome to if you wish ), but you can use this file as a template and to get an idea for which tiles in GeneralTiles.png to change in order to make your own mods. It's not pretty, because I did it really quickly to get it out early for people to play with. So, happy modding.

By the way, there are eight white tiles near the bottom right of the image that are used for wall shadows. I didn't do anything with them, but you ought to draw black shadow shapes on them to get the shadows you want. Also, near the middle there are four big squares of color: yellow, green, blue, and red. These are the yellow, green, blue, and red gates. (In particular, the red gates look the same color as all the red tiles that are unused, but they're actually the red gates.)

____________________________
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AlefBet
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File: GeneralTiles.png (16.6 KB)
Downloaded 244 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Here's an updated version. Still a very abstract experience, but it should make modders' lives easier. New:
* Wall shadow tiles have shadows on them.
* Tarstuff tiles have shaping on them, making it easier to see which tile goes where.
* Door tiles have lines on them to annotate which ones go where.
* Fuses are connected.
* Serpent tiles have connecting lines so you can see generally which tiles are which.
* Eyegaze tiles are individualized.
* A few other minor tweaks.

[Edited by AlefBet at Local Time:04-10-2005 at 10:24 AM]

____________________________
I was charged with conspiracy to commit jay-walking, and accessory to changing lanes without signaling after the fact .

++Adam H. Peterson

AlefBet
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File: GeneralTiles.png (54.9 KB)
Downloaded 246 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Another updated version. Still a fairly abstract experience, but I've added some shading and lighting to the circles and such so it's not so utterly basic and bland. I've also added contouring to the Tar and Mud, and the serepents look a bit more serpent-ish. And Slayer's Wisp is now a sort of twirling ball effect.

Incidentally, these graphics are completely generated by a Perl program. If anyone is interested, I could post the Perl script so people could play with it themselves.

____________________________
I was charged with conspiracy to commit jay-walking, and accessory to changing lanes without signaling after the fact .

++Adam H. Peterson

SuperV
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Whoa! Very good, not ugly! Where you found the original generaltiles.bmp? Post generaltiles.bmp on forum please o send to my with a private message please.

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krammer
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SuperV - the original GeneralTiles is not available because it's part of what you pay for - in other words the graphics are copyright. AlefBet has made this so that if you want to make your own you can, but the original graphics files are not going to be made publically available. Think of this set as the official template if you like.

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SuperV
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But AlefBet uses original files or templates? AlefBet cant have created the file from a white image, there are a template like this? :
IMAGE=
Beethro Slayer-
Beethro Slayer-
Guard-- Event1
Guard-- Event2
Fuse--- Event3
DoorBlue Mud---
DoorBlack Tar--
DoorYellow

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ErikH2000
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SuperV wrote:
But AlefBet uses original files or templates? AlefBet cant have created the file from a white image, there are a template like this? :

AlefBet (Adam Peterson) was on the development team for DROD: Journey to Rooted Hold, which gave him access to the original graphics. Also he and Mike are friends that both live in Provo, so he had another advantage that he could just lean over and ask Mike questions about tile arrangements. We didn't want to distribute our media in a way that would encourage copying it. (With our open source releases, it is very easy to confuse people on licensing.) We also didn't want to shut down the modders, or make open source coders too upset about the difficulties of redistribution. So Adam made these public domain images you can copy to your heart's content and base your mods from.

Please, don't copy graphics from the game to use for mods. This is infringement and it can hurt us in unpredictable ways. Instead take Adam's public domain stuff as a reference and make something new and glorious.

-Erik

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SuperV
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ErikH2000 wrote:

SuperV wrote:
But AlefBet uses original files or templates? AlefBet cant have created the file from a white image, there are a template like this? :

AlefBet (Adam Peterson) was on the development team for DROD: Journey to Rooted Hold, which gave him access to the original graphics. Also he and Mike are friends that both live in Provo, so he had another advantage that he could just lean over and ask Mike questions about tile arrangements. We didn't want to distribute our media in a way that would encourage copying it. (With our open source releases, it is very easy to confuse people on licensing.) We also didn't want to shut down the modders, or make open source coders too upset about the difficulties of redistribution. So Adam made these public domain images you can copy to your heart's content and base your mods from.

Please, don't copy graphics from the game to use for mods. This is infringement and it can hurt us in unpredictable ways. Instead take Adam's public domain stuff as a reference and make something new and glorious.

-Erik

Ok, i can enter on the modding team? If not, no problem for me.

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schep
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One thing that would be a nice addition to this file (and maybe related to what SuperV was asking) is an explanation of which tiles correspond to which monsters and so on. It's not entirely obvious just from the file (unlike the AE version, in which everything looked more familiar). Of course, at least half of it I have strong guesses on, and playing for a bit using the template in either game or editor would make most of the rest apparent.

ErikH2000
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SuperV wrote:
Ok, i can enter on the modding team? If not, no problem for me.

Heh. You can create your own and call it "Team SuperV"!

No honestly, there is really no official modding team. Adam released files to encourage independant modding. If you want to work with other people, a good way to start would be to post here and say what you are doing or want to do. Post versions of your work as you go, and maybe people will jump in with offers to collaborate.

-Erik

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SuperV
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ErikH2000 wrote:

SuperV wrote:
Ok, i can enter on the modding team? If not, no problem for me.

Heh. You can create your own and call it "Team SuperV"!

No honestly, there is really no official modding team. Adam released files to encourage independant modding. If you want to work with other people, a good way to start would be to post here and say what you are doing or want to do. Post versions of your work as you go, and maybe people will jump in with offers to collaborate.

-Erik

I cant post my works, i dont have templates, and i are a goood pixel artist, i can create good drod graphics; but dont are a modding team? Its Caravel Team the modding team? Erik create a modding team, its good to create new graphics for DROD JTRH...

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schep
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SuperV wrote:
i dont have templates

Umm. The file posted in this thread IS the template. That's why AlefBet did all this, so that people like you can look at an uncopyrighted file and figure out how to make your own mod.

Maurog
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Umm, you can post your own works, and I reckon all the templates are in the Data/Bitmaps directory of JtRH except for GeneralTiles.png which is attached to this very thread. So umm, go forth and create, SuperV! Be free! Freeeeee! We'd love to see your mods and pass witty remarks on them.

____________________________
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SuperV
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schep wrote:

SuperV wrote:
i dont have templates

Umm. The file posted in this thread IS the template. That's why AlefBet did all this, so that people like you can look at an uncopyrighted file and figure out how to make your own mod.

No, this not the template, this is a graphic replacement... The template are a white image with a grid, a text in 22X22 blocks like this :

BBBBBBBB (beethro)
SSSSSSSS (SLAYER)
RRRRRRRR (ROACH)
RQRQRQRQ (ROACHQUEEN)
GGGGGGGG (GUARD)
CT1CT1CT (Citizien 1)
FFFFFFFF (FUse)
YDYDYDYD (Yellow Door)
GDGDGDGD (Green door)

and much more.

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AlefBet
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File: GeneralTiles.png (63.3 KB)
Downloaded 214 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

I created this image as I looked at the original GeneralTiles.png, but I didn't copy any of the image data from it -- I just used it to see what tile to put where. In fact, I don't copy any graphical data from anywhere at all since the entire image is generated programmatically by a Perl script.

If you want one with a grid on it, here you go (attached). I suggest playing with this mod for a while to figure out what tiles are which room elements, and I tried to make the colors suggestive of the original monsters. However, if you really want a template specification, here is a copy of the data segment from my Perl script that decides what tiles are drawn where:

8Decoy 8Poppy
8DecoySword 8PoppySword
8Beethro 2Checkpoint 1 1Ortho 4
8BeethroSword 5Swirl 2SeepBlood 1SlayerBlood
8Mimic 8WraithWing
8MimicSword 8WraithWing
8GoblinKing 8EvilEye
8Roach 8EvilEye
8Roach 2Blood 2Debris 2Bugs 1Z 1Masterwall
8RoachQueen 2TarBlood 2 4TarMother
8RoachQueen 2MudBlood 2 4MudMother
8RoachEgg 8Seep
8Goblin 8Seep
8Goblin 2Wubba 1Bomb 2 3Spark
1Scroll 2Orb 3Potion 2Brain 4Eyebeam 1ImageTile 3
4YellowDoor 4GreenDoor 4BlueDoor 4RedDoor
4YellowDoor 4GreenDoor 4BlueDoor 4RedDoor
4YellowDoor 4GreenDoor 4BlueDoor 4RedDoor
4YellowDoor 4GreenDoor 4BlueDoor 4RedDoor
4BlackDoor 4Fuse 4OpenDoor 4DarkFuse
4BlackDoor 4Fuse 4OpenDoor 4DarkFuse
4BlackDoor 4Fuse 4OpenDoor 4DarkFuse
4BlackDoor 4Fuse 4OpenDoor 4DarkFuse
8Golem 1Pile 2 5Tar
8Golem 1Pile 2 5Tar
3Serpent 2 3Rattler 3 5Tar
5Serpent 5Rattler 1 5Mud
5Serpent 5Rattler 1 5Mud
5Serpent 5Rattler 1 5Mud
8Slayer 8Hook
4Wisp 4Blast 8Citizen
8Citizen 8Citizen
8Halph 8GoblinKing
8Citizen 7WallShadow 1
8TarBaby 8Swish
8TarBaby 8Spider
8MudBaby 8Spider
8MudBaby 8ActiveEye
16
16
16
16

Each line represents a row of the graphic. Each element is a number followed by the name of the element. For example, the top row "8Decoy 8Poppy" means the first eight tiles are decoys (in the various directions) and the next eight are poppies (in the various directions). A number without a name associated with it means that many tiles are unused.

[Edited by AlefBet at Local Time:04-25-2005 at 11:25 PM]

____________________________
I was charged with conspiracy to commit jay-walking, and accessory to changing lanes without signaling after the fact .

++Adam H. Peterson

wmarkham
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Maurog wrote:
Umm, you can post your own works, and I reckon all the templates are in the Data/Bitmaps directory of JtRH except for GeneralTiles.png which is attached to this very thread. So umm, go forth and create, SuperV! Be free! Freeeeee! We'd love to see your mods and pass witty remarks on them.

As an experiment, I dropped GeneralTiles.png plus the "Flaming Peligroso" style images into the Data directory from the source code. I then tried to build a hold, but the room display widget on the selection screen was grey. I clicked on it and got a crash.

Also, the source code dist appears to contain a bunch of the voice acting samples, e.g. phrases that the Slayer says during gameplay. Can these be treated as being in the public domain?

AlefBet
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File: GeneralTiles.png (59.6 KB)
Downloaded 167 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Another updated version. There are minor tweaks here and there for this one, but the big change is that this has the tiles for the sword swipe done.

____________________________
I was charged with conspiracy to commit jay-walking, and accessory to changing lanes without signaling after the fact .

++Adam H. Peterson

SuperV
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Thanks, AlefBet, but i dont know why dont are a modding team; Erik selects modders by users rank (Goblin, Smitemaster...) or you are a member of Caravel Team?


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eytanz
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Ok, to be very clear about this:

AlefBet is one of Caravel's programmers.

There is no official mod team; why should there be? Mod teams are something that should come out of the fan community.

Erik isn't going to give the right to modify the real graphics to anyone. Definitely not in the near future. That will undermine any effort by Caravel to actually make money and therefore make more games.

You can make mods based on the graphics AlefBet posted on this thread.

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SuperV
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eytanz wrote:
Ok, to be very clear about this:

AlefBet is one of Caravel's programmers.

There is no official mod team; why should there be? Mod teams are something that should come out of the fan community.

Erik isn't going to give the right to modify the real graphics to anyone. Definitely not in the near future. That will undermine any effort by Caravel to actually make money and therefore make more games.

You can make mods based on the graphics AlefBet posted on this thread.

If I would to create a modding team (SuperModding), i can have access at original graphics or i cant why i dont are a programmer?

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SuperV
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New idea : i insert in a room all monsters and objects in all directions with a custom floor image unique color. I use a generaltiles template and copy and paste objects picked from my screenshot. If I make this idea i dont post this idea, why all users can pick generaltiles.


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ErikH2000
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SuperV wrote:
If I would to create a modding team (SuperModding), i can have access at original graphics or i cant why i dont are a programmer?

That would be cool if you create a modding team, but still you can't have access to the original graphics. You don't really need them. Alefbet went to a lot of trouble to give you some graphics that you can use instead. Please just use those.

-Erik

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ErikH2000
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SuperV wrote:
New idea : i insert in a room all monsters and objects in all directions with a custom floor image unique color. I use a generaltiles template and copy and paste objects picked from my screenshot. If I make this idea i dont post this idea, why all users can pick generaltiles.

SuperV, if I understand you right, then you are wanting to do this:

1. Insert all monsters and objects in all directions in one room.
2. Take a screenshot of the room.
3. Copy graphics from the screenshot to your generaltiles mod.
4. Distribute your generaltiles mod (i.e. give it to friends, post it here, put it on a website)

Don't do this, please! Step 4 above is infringing on our copyrights.

-Erik

____________________________
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silver
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Something to look at fixing for 3.0 then:

don't put all the creatures on one file. The "one file" policy combined with your license makes it impossible for me to say, just change the roaches (and nothing else).

yeck.

similarly for faces.png.

so, as a more concrete example, I want to make a hold, but change out Halph with my pet cat. or replace "character 1" with "fred the evil clown". ... I can't change his face and icon without changing everything else in the hold or violating your license.


[Edited by silver at Local Time:04-26-2005 at 06:34 PM]

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ErikH2000
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silver wrote:
Something to look at fixing for 3.0 then:

don't put all the creatures on one file. The "one file" policy combined with your license makes it impossible for me to say, just change the roaches (and nothing else).

That's a great point. I see now that we made this modding thing an all-or-nothing proposition, and that's a step backwards from AE modding.

Maybe we can change the algorithm so that if you fill in the square for a tile in your mod graphic with one certain color it means "use the default". So if you only wanted to mod roaches, then fill in all the other tiles except for the roach tiles with red.

-Erik

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AlefBet
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Maybe we can change the algorithm so that if you fill in the square for a tile in your mod graphic with one certain color it means "use the default". So if you only wanted to mod roaches, then fill in all the other tiles except for the roach tiles with red.

Yeah, I was going to suggest that to Mike before mentioning it on the forum. Since it has now been mentioned, I guess I'll go on record as saying I think it's a good idea.

[Edited by AlefBet at Local Time:04-26-2005 at 07:00 PM]

____________________________
I was charged with conspiracy to commit jay-walking, and accessory to changing lanes without signaling after the fact .

++Adam H. Peterson

SuperV
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ErikH2000 wrote:

SuperV wrote:
New idea : i insert in a room all monsters and objects in all directions with a custom floor image unique color. I use a generaltiles template and copy and paste objects picked from my screenshot. If I make this idea i dont post this idea, why all users can pick generaltiles.

SuperV, if I understand you right, then you are wanting to do this:

1. Insert all monsters and objects in all directions in one room.
2. Take a screenshot of the room.
3. Copy graphics from the screenshot to your generaltiles mod.
4. Distribute your generaltiles mod (i.e. give it to friends, post it here, put it on a website)

Don't do this, please! Step 4 above is infringing on our copyrights.

-Erik

DONT WORRY I DONT POST MY CREATIONS! I USE IT (IF I CREATE THIS FILE) FOR ME AND ONLY MODIFIED GENERALTILES POST . Go to another my topic on developement!! NEW FACES!!!!

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ErikH2000
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wmarkham wrote:
Also, the source code dist appears to contain a bunch of the voice acting samples, e.g. phrases that the Slayer says during gameplay. Can these be treated as being in the public domain?

I'm thinking of what to do with these. Hmm...

Okay, those will be public domain. I think what I'm going to do is pull the sound effects out of the source archive and create a new public domain media archive. It will have the sound effects and Alefbet's bitmaps right now. Later on it can have more media as it becomes available. If anyone happens to be interested in maintaining a public domain media archive for the DROD 2.0 engine, please let me know. Preference would be given to someone with a good history of participation on the forum.

-Erik

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ErikH2000
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SuperV wrote:
DONT WORRY I DONT POST MY CREATIONS! I USE IT (IF I CREATE THIS FILE) FOR ME AND ONLY MODIFIED GENERALTILES POST . Go to another my topic on developement!! NEW FACES!!!!

SuperV, this is the problem I am talking about. Your faces image is Caravel's graphics modified. You can't do that! I'm sorry, but we took your file down.

If you use our graphics, modify them, and post them, that is almost as bad as posting the original graphics. This isn't respecting our property and how we've asked you to use it. So you need to start listening carefully to what I'm saying. I appreciate that you have some energy and enthusiasm to be creative with the graphics, but you can't copy our work!

Please don't post any more modified graphics until you understand what I'm saying. You can e-mail me at erikh@caravelgames.com, and we can talk about it more if you like. I am not trying to be harsh or embarrass you. We want DROD fans like you. Things just must be done in the correct way.

-Erik

____________________________
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SuperV
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ErikH2000 wrote:

SuperV wrote:
DONT WORRY I DONT POST MY CREATIONS! I USE IT (IF I CREATE THIS FILE) FOR ME AND ONLY MODIFIED GENERALTILES POST . Go to another my topic on developement!! NEW FACES!!!!

SuperV, this is the problem I am talking about. Your faces image is Caravel's graphics modified. You can't do that! I'm sorry, but we took your file down.

If you use our graphics, modify them, and post them, that is almost as bad as posting the original graphics. This isn't respecting our property and how we've asked you to use it. So you need to start listening carefully to what I'm saying. I appreciate that you have some energy and enthusiasm to be creative with the graphics, but you can't copy our work!

Please don't post any more modified graphics until you understand what I'm saying. You can e-mail me at erikh@caravelgames.com, and we can talk about it more if you like. I am not trying to be harsh or embarrass you. We want DROD fans like you. Things just must be done in the correct way.

-Erik

Ah... Ok.......
I remove the file...

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