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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : General : Time Fenix Campaign & Tariffs (How to manage our campaign in light of the tariff situation?)
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How to manage our campaign in light of the tariff situation?
Charge all backers more
Charge US backers more
Eat the cost of US tariffs ourselves
Make the game available to non-US countries only to avoid dealing with US tariffs
Delay the campaign to see what happens next
Door #3
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mrimer
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icon Time Fenix Campaign & Tariffs (+4)  
As you may know, folks at Caravel Games have been working hard on "Time Fenix", a solo full-blown tabletop game with a Metroidvania-like meta progression and mazelike puzzle areas that play like DROD RPG. There's a story campaign with some deck management and *-and-write elements. It's essentially a spiritual successor to "Twisty Little Passages" and a significant evolution on the formula.

It has a lot of crunchy gaming content. My wife and I have been doing research and development for a few years and we've invested a significant amount of time and money into the project by this point. Others have done a lot of playtesting to help us polish the experience. I personally think what we have created is really good.

The plan we've been working toward has been to get the game into players' hands by the holidays. The game is essentially complete, and I'm getting some prototype copies made, mostly on schedule. I'm starting to engage with previewers and early reviewers and we're preparing to kick off a crowdfunding campaign in June or so.

Except...now there's this emerging tariff situation. While I'm no expert, I think it's safe to say that most game companies have their board games manufactured in China. We're partnering with an excellent tabletop game manufacturing partner, Boda Games, who manufacture many games with great production values like Everdell (as one popular example). They work with factories in China. Another great game manufacturer is Panda Games. They're based in Canada and they work with game publishers to get their games made in China.

At present, the US has a mind-boggling 145% import tax on goods (including tabletop games) from China. So, after paying for production and shipping, we'd have to pay on the order of $10K+ (a conservative value -- it ultimately depends on our volume) on top of that just to get the games through customs into the US. This would likely eat into most of our profits and there's a lot of uncertainty how we'd come out the other side.

I've read a lot of discussion by gamers and gaming studios about the impact of the tariff. Well-known publishers like Stonemaier Games, who make hits like "Wingspan", and Bitewing Games have shared detailed messaging about how this will impact them and the industry. Jamey Stegmaier notes (see his blog, e.g., The Darkest Timeline) while it would be nice to produce board games right here in the US, where most of their market is, the US infrastructure just isn't in place at this time to create what game studios want to create. Chinese manufacturers are well experienced at this and can create just about anything you can think of making at the excellent level of production quality gamers have come to expect. (I've researched and read numbers that US manufacturing costs would be anywhere from 3-6x what production in China costs, and the quality would be noticeably lower.) With the introduction of tariffs and given the uncertainty about the future, the situation is pretty bad for a lot of folks who do this for their full-time job. Some game development studios are already closing their doors because they can't make the numbers work from a supply-and-demand standpoint.

It's not hopeless everywhere. Though still far from ideal, producing games that go directly to customers is actually the best model in this circumstance, and that's what we -- as an indie development and publishing studio -- are doing with our campaign. Also, we're planning to ship from China to fulfillment hubs that service various geo locations, like the EU, Australia, and hopefully Canada if there's sufficient volume to warrant it. Shipping games directly to these locations wouldn't be impacted by US tariffs.

So, what do I do for Time Fenix? Or rather, as a prospective backer, what would you want us as the game publisher to do? I have my own thoughts on how to move forward, and I'm not interested in any political ranting here -- just curious what you as a gamer would want us to do in this circumstance to get you our amazing game.

Vote and share your thoughts!

Edit: If you vote for "Door #3", share what approach you have in mind.

[Last edited by mrimer at 04-21-2025 12:04 AM]
04-19-2025 at 01:49 AM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Time Fenix Campaign & Tariffs (+2)  
That's the thing about politics. Ignoring them is a privilege, and eventually in kakist america politics vote you.

But from the (my) mechanical puzzles community's experience, plenty of countries have significant import taxes already and ultimately the answer is for the buyers to suck it up and pay them. It blows massive moose balls, especially when the business plan didn't account for it originally, but people are buying this as a luxury product, not a commodity. Pass the costs along to those of us in the US, and maybe we'll think about our votes next time if we want nice things like time fenix. No ethical consumption under capitalism and all that.

Best of luck!

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04-20-2025 at 12:32 PM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: Time Fenix Campaign & Tariffs (+1)  
I want the game, and will pay what it costs. I think many who will buy it agree with Dischorran.

But I really want you createors to do what makes most sense to you. As a European I wouldn't mind not paying the US tariffs, but I can do so if you feel it makes most sense.

Also: Have you considered a digital version, like you provided for TLP?
04-27-2025 at 01:36 PM
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mrimer
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icon Re: Time Fenix Campaign & Tariffs (0)  
Blondbeard wrote:
Also: Have you considered a digital version, like you provided for TLP?
Great question. Yes, we have. It's more challenging to make Time Fenix work as a digital (PDF) or print-and-play version than TLP, as it has been designed as a full-blown board game, with a deck of cards and other physical game components like counters and tokens. The counters and tokens could be simulated on pen and paper, but deck and hand management over the course of the campaign and in each area would be trickier.

Perhaps, is there a good virtual solution for managing an arbitrary set of cards that anyone is aware of? (I'm hoping for something that would be more elegant and streamlined than, say, setting up a deck of cards to compile and manage in a TTS project/virtual space.)
04-28-2025 at 05:11 PM
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mrimer
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icon Re: Time Fenix Campaign & Tariffs (0)  
Thanks to everyone who has weighed in. So far, the majority opinion is to manage US tariffs distinctly from non-US pledges/orders, which makes sense to me.

Last week, Kickstarter made some new features generally available for pledge management on the site, including managing tariffs explicitly and transparently, which I consider steps in the right direction.

You may have seen recent news that the US tariffs on imports from China have been temporarily reduced by a significant amount, down from 145% to 30%, for 90 days.

This is likely good news for US backers, as it would translate to a reduced tariff to be paid alongside shipping, but it doesn't necessarily reflect how things will be when we manufacture and ship Time Fenix, which will be outside the 90-day window. It's complicated. Hopefully the situation will remain the same or get better after 90 days. Regardless, we'll still have to plan to manage the situation based on how things are at that future date.

[Last edited by mrimer at 05-14-2025 05:33 PM]
05-14-2025 at 05:31 PM
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