KituU
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 222
Registered: 07-02-2014
IP: Logged

Hi !
Cannot move the Gentryii chain in goblin sector .

Also, do not understand the mechanics in this room. Solved the south part but

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5396
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

Honestly one of the rooms I'm least happy with; I complained a lot about the original version of 6N/7N (which were originally one room) not being clear enough, but we never could come up with something that really showed the mechanics clearly.

So, the lesson from 5N is that chains won't straighten if there is any slack (if they don't go from start to end in the minimum possible number of moves). The idea of this room is that an obstacle adjacent to a diagonal chain segment on the inside effectively splits it into two chains, each of which may straighten if all conditions are met.

In other words, with one obstacle, the chain from head to obstacle will straighten if it has no slack (shown in the SW section), and the chain from obstacle to tail will straighten if it has no slack (this is why the mirror has to be placed on one specific tile in the SE section).

For the goblin section, you have two obstacles to work with, so you can divide the chain into three. Don't forget that (as shown in 3N) Beethro also needs to be ahead of the head for straightening.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2829
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged

To be more specific: we didn't fully understand the rules for this mechanic until late in development. I knew that slack was the underlying reason why the chain wouldn't straighten without an obstacle, but I didn't have a full understanding of what it took to prevent slack.

It was actually a removed widget from a previous attempt at the lesson which gave me the key insight: a set of doors next to a diagonal chain, with pressure plates activating each individually. Closing any of the doors caused straightening. Maybe keeping that widget would have helped with the lesson.

The goblin chamber was meant to be a minor exercise, an intermediate step between the basic lesson and the main puzzle of the room. But it turned out to be an effective filter on advancing without understanding the lesson. That's fine as far as it goes - the problem was, we didn't make the lesson clear enough. And by the time we had people getting stuck on the goblin part, we had higher priorities than improving conveyance on one room in an optional level.

Right now, it's at "if we tell someone to take a closer look at the first part of the room and work out what it's teaching, they can usually do it". At that point in development, we were calling that adequate. If we'd figured out the key rule sooner and had more time for people to look at it and get stuck, we might have been able to improve the lesson.

KituU
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 222
Registered: 07-02-2014
IP: Logged

Thank you, now i'm stuck in the last part.

can not free p plate at (32,3)

I can bring the goblin to this sector, don't know if is useful as mechanism needs obstacle only on the inside ? It does not seem a drod mechanism at all, or maybe i'm just confused

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2829
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged

Bringing the goblin is not meant to be useful - it just results in having fewer chain obstacles available.

The puzzle here requires extrapolating from the lesson.

KituU
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 222
Registered: 07-02-2014
IP: Logged

Thank you !