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Hedginka
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icon Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (+2)  
This is kind of a sequel to my thread where I asked if anyone preferred the aesthetic and OST of the original KDD to the Steam release. After visiting a couple of download links in that thread, I did in fact learn it's possible and even quite simple to play the AE version of KDD with the improvements of the Steam release. Said improvements being the 30 turn timer, the undo button and the ability to repeat the same 2 movements back and forth.

So that's great. But now I'm wondering if it's possible to play the AE rendition of KDD with the extra content that came with the Steam release. A.K.A the challenges and extra secret rooms. I suspect the answer will be a swift, 'no.' But on the off chance it isn't, I'm making this thread.
10-23-2021 at 07:20 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (+2)  
Original KDD with challenges. The hold is Anyone Edit, so you can easily set it back to the AE room styles if you prefer that. (To change the room style for all rooms in a level at once, hold Ctrl when choosing a room style in the editor.)

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50th Skywatcher
10-24-2021 at 06:24 AM
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Hedginka
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
Nuntar wrote:
Original KDD with challenges. The hold is Anyone Edit, so you can easily set it back to the AE room styles if you prefer that. (To change the room style for all rooms in a level at once, hold Ctrl when choosing a room style in the editor.)

Thank you! Will this hold ever be updated to include the scrolls with the challenges?
10-24-2021 at 02:54 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (+2)  
Since there's interest and it shouldn't take very long, I'll try to get that done some time this week.

For now, here's a list of the challenges:
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Nuntar at 10-25-2021 10:06 AM]
10-25-2021 at 10:02 AM
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Hedginka
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
Nuntar wrote:
Since there's interest and it shouldn't take very long, I'll try to get that done some time this week.

O_O Was not expecting that willingness so immediately. Thank you though, I really appreciate it.

Also, while we're here, I may as well ask if there's a similar file for JTRH available for download. One that has the original style, but with challenges and whatnot.
11-03-2021 at 04:46 PM
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Nuntar
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File: King Dugans Dungeon 50 AE.hold (168.6 KB)
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (+7)  
Here you go. I've added scrolls for all the challenges that exist in this version, which is just a few short of the 100 in the final version.

There will not be a similar download for JtRH, because that's a commercial product. (The enhanced KDD, with speech and including the secret rooms, is also a commercial product, but the original version of KDD is available for free.)

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11-05-2021 at 04:33 PM
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Kalin
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (+3)  
Thanks for doing this.

It's interesting seeing the differences between these challenges and the achievements in KDDL.
11-06-2021 at 02:30 AM
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Kalin
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
Do you have an architecture thread for this?

And are those scrolls exactly the same as KDD 5.0? Because I feel some of them could be worded better (like in level 7).

And I would like to make this thing perfect, because "free KDD + unlimited undo" is a great way to introduce people to the series.
11-08-2021 at 01:00 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (+2)  
The architecture thread is on the private TSS Beta board, since by the time we started the KDD 5.0 project, TSS beta had long since finished and it wasn't disturbing anything to put it there.

The scrolls are not the same as KDD 5.0; I took the wording from the list in my post above (copied from the private board) with a few tweaks -- in particular, I remembered a couple of rooms where Alex Diener struggled in his LP because of poor wording choices on the scrolls, so I made sure to tweak those ones.

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11-08-2021 at 09:08 PM
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Kalin
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
(deleted me being confused about level 13 challenge)

EDIT: Wait, is the challenge just to reach the exit? I just realized it said 2S2W and not 2N2W.

In that case, it's underwhelming but correct.

And I just re-read your post above, and you should probably just remove the challenge completely then.



[Last edited by Kalin at 11-16-2021 01:52 AM]
11-13-2021 at 07:27 PM
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Kalin
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
How do you decide where to place challenge scrolls? Sometimes they're behind green doors (which I really don't like), and sometimes they're at the room entrance, and sometimes they're in the previous room (which makes sense for rooms full of serpents, but not in other places).

Anyway, I'm here to ask you to move the scroll for level 16 Entrance. I didn't realize there was a scroll there until I re-entered the room, and at that point the only way to read it is to restore to the previous level.

And could someone check the 17:1N1W challenge? Or explain it to me?
Click here to view the secret text


11-16-2021 at 02:06 AM
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Tuttle
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
There's a 'Level Start' button on the restore screen (next to the bold 'Choose Room:' header); you can restore to the beginning of L16 without needing to restore to L15 and climb the stairs.

17:1N1W looks okay to me script-wise and I can trigger the challenge on a simpler version with most of the other tar gone. Make sure you don't have any stray tar babies around -- your final stab needs to both kill the last living object and clear all the tar from the room. (In my testing you can get away with stabbing an eye in a 2x2 blob to create three tar babies and still get the challenge awarded, but in my original solution I trimmed it back so the eye was standing alone.)
11-16-2021 at 06:31 AM
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Kalin
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File: KDD50A Seventeenth Level 1N1W Victory.demo (11.7 KB)
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
Still not clear on this.

All babies dead and tar cleared except 2x2 blob consisting of two eyes and two uncuttable tar. Stab an eye, kill the two babies, and stab the other eye. Is that how you're supposed to end it?

I see absolutely no possible way to clear the tar above the eyes without stabbing an eye.

Terrible demo attached.

One final thing: I first cleared the room without the challenge, then came back through Restore. I think a different challenge had a bug where it wasn't awarded if you came back.

[Last edited by Kalin at 11-16-2021 01:15 PM]
11-16-2021 at 01:14 PM
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
If you want to have the tar mother and no other tar:

Click here to view the secret text

11-16-2021 at 09:32 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (+1)  
Kalin wrote:
How do you decide where to place challenge scrolls? Sometimes they're behind green doors (which I really don't like), and sometimes they're at the room entrance, and sometimes they're in the previous room (which makes sense for rooms full of serpents, but not in other places).
Serpents and brains are the most obvious cases where a scroll can change the gameplay of a room. Two subtler cases are roach queen spawning and double placement.

For the official release, we were really careful to avoid any possible demo breakage, so a few scrolls got moved outside the room where at first glance it might not seem necessary. Obviously, for the free version I've been less concerned about this, but I've still kept them outside the room in a lot of the L21 brain rooms.

Placing the scroll behind a green door was sometimes a last resort when there wasn't a better way to keep it outside the puzzle area; sometimes it was done to avoid spoiling room linchpins (remembering that KDD has a special status as the first ever hold and still the first hold played for many new players, so things that seem obvious to an experienced player could be satisfying "aha" moments to a new player).

Kalin wrote:
One final thing: I first cleared the room without the challenge, then came back through Restore. I think a different challenge had a bug where it wasn't awarded if you came back.

L16 1S1E had that problem in the first release of the official version, because that version has dialogue relating to the challenge, and I incorporated the "Challenge complete" script command into the dialogue script without realising the problem. It has now been fixed; and this never affected the free version, since it doesn't have dialogue. I'm not aware of any other rooms with a similar issue.

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11-16-2021 at 09:53 PM
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
Kalin wrote:
Terrible demo attached.
That... absolutely should trigger the challenge as far as I can tell. And if I edit the room to remove most of the tar and finish it off that way in the editor, it does (attached). I have no idea what's going on.
11-18-2021 at 10:01 AM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (+1)  
Did you clear the room (without the challenge), then unclear it by creating a new tar baby and walking out, then restore to a state after that had been done? That would break the script as written, and it's the only thing I can think of right now that might have happened.

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11-18-2021 at 05:51 PM
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Kalin
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
Yes, actually. Because that's how you do the KDDL achievement (drop all trapdoors and clear the room).

Should I restore to before I first entered the room?

On a side note, I see that the script doesn't actually look at the mother, so I can probably cheat by stashing a baby somewhere safe until all the tar is cleared.
11-18-2021 at 06:58 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
Kalin wrote: On a side note, I see that the script doesn't actually look at the mother, so I can probably cheat by stashing a baby somewhere safe until all the tar is cleared.

The script checks whether you clear all tar in the same turn as clearing the room, so no, that won't work.

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11-18-2021 at 07:26 PM
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Kalin
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icon Re: Is it possible to play the AE version of KDD with the challenges and rooms of the Steam release? (0)  
Okay, finally got the challenge. Curiously, you won't get it if the eye is all alone when you stab it. The challenge is only awarded if you create babies when stabbing the second eye.

Now I just need to do a few more rooms in level 25 and I'm done.
11-19-2021 at 12:49 AM
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