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ErikH2000
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icon New releases, $$$, and hopefully no hurt feelings. (0)  
I want to make money from DROD.

Wait! It’s not as bad as it sounds! Just hold on a sec.

· Caravel DROD will remain free and open source. Even if I didn\'t want it to be, the Mozilla Public License, under which DROD is licensed, and my obligations to the other project contributors pretty much dictate this.

· I plan to continue releasing free versions of Caravel DROD with more monsters, more rooms, more everything.

· There will *not* be a \"premium\" version of Caravel DROD. Caravel DROD will not be crippled, not have annoying wait screens, not contain ads, and not have anything about it that indicates that it is less than the best version of DROD to be had.

· We will release holds (level collections) for Caravel DROD as commercial products. These holds won\'t be archives of levels created by the user community. They will be a set of quality puzzles designed as a whole, created solely by the Caravel team and not available elsewhere. The story of DROD will continue in the Caravel holds. New characters and plot developments will provide extra incentives for you to delve deeper into the game.

The next release of Caravel DROD (free) will have the level editor and several other features. It\'s an easy prediction that DROD players are going to turn into DROD authors, and build up a slew of new holds to play. So you won\'t need to wait for the Caravel team to feed you challenging puzzles. Man, I can\'t wait to see what you guys come up with! Except for Lucas\' levels, I never had a chance to play anything made by other people.

After that, we\'ll start working on a hold called \"DROD: Journey to Rooted Hold\". We plan to release the hold simultaneously with a new version of Caravel DROD that comes with a smaller hold to get your feet wet. So you can download Caravel DROD (free) and play through the introductory levels (free). At that point, you\'d likely be looking for more levels to play. You could either find new levels from the user community (free), or you could pay something like $20 for \"DROD: Journey to Rooted Hold\" and get right into the thick of it. And of course, you could do both.

This is a good thing for DROD players, because more features will be put into the game. With the commercial hold release, Mike Rimer and I will be asking, “do you want us to keep writing games?” If a lot of people say “yes” by spending some greckles, then we have much more freedom to improve this great little game. So we’ll offer you something good and see if you want it!

Also we’ve got some other Caravel games planned, though it’s too early to go into details. Mike Rimer and another sturdy fellow, Butch Istook, are putting together a puzzle-solving RPG, and I think anybody that likes DROD will go for this one too.

The downside of these maneuvers is that we can’t expect the same style of collaboration in the development of DROD. I’ve been very lucky in the help I’ve received from programmers, feature authors, and other contributors. I simply can’t ask for or expect the same type of volunteerism when things go commercial.

Some time after the level editor is released, we may begin publishing source code with each release, instead of making it available during development. This is to prevent people from making an early release of DROD that would undermine sales of holds. Note that this process would not prevent people from using our source code to make their own versions of DROD, and we would be following the requirements of our open source agreement.

The development process will be a lot different. If you’re a coder that wants to write some improvements into DROD, the first thing is you’d have to be open-minded about other folks making money on it. The second thing is that you wouldn’t have access to the latest source code. I think those two things are going to greatly dampen people’s desire to jump in as contributors, but if we get some indie developers, I would like to help them out so it isn’t that bad. This help would include:

· Answering questions on writing code, building the project, and general architecture.

· Making source code patches available that will reduce merging problems that the independent developer might have on subsequent releases of Caravel DROD.

If an independent developer is particularly talented, we might talk to him about opportunities to work on a Caravel project for royalties. No promises there, but it is certainly possible, especially if we get good sales for our products.

Then there are the feature requests. Because Caravel is potentially making money from other people’s ideas, we need to handle this differently. Much as I’ve appreciated all the ideas that have been sent in by people, I’m no longer going to solicit for them. If you’d like to see something in the game, make a post on the forums, understand that we can’t pay you for the idea, and possibly we might pick it up and use it. If you feel you should be compensated for your ideas, I recommend that you don’t share them publicly. If we want to use any ideas that are in our feature request database now, we’ll contact the authors and ask how they feel about it.

So I hope nobody is angry, alienated, depressed, or confused over these changes. If you are, why don’t you post something on the forum? We can definitely talk about it. There is a lot in store for you, and I think this is the best way to get the goods delivered!

-Erik


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02-09-2003 at 08:47 PM
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Malarame
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Well, no one blames you for wanting to make money from this thing. If I were in your shoes, I\'d want the same thing. Incidently, have you been selling much on the online store? I want to buy a couple of things, but I haven\'t gotten around to it yet. But back to the point...I feel that as long as the level editor is free and fans can make their own holds, then I have no problem with you charging for \"official\" holds. I would be willing to pay for them, depending on how much you want to charge. As a bit of reference, I\'d probably be willing to pay up to $20-$25 for the levels that are included right now. Also, if they continue the story, then there\'s more of an incentive to spend the money. That\'s about it, I guess.

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02-09-2003 at 08:58 PM
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ErikH2000
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Malarame wrote:
Well, no one blames you for wanting to make money from this thing. If I were in your shoes, I\'d want the same thing. Incidently, have you been selling much on the online store?

Nope, there are two orders that I made, and one order that someone else made. It\'s been a vanity press operation, but still worth it for me. I\'ve got the poster on my wall, the mug and mousepad at my desk, and I could be wearing the shirt right now, but am instead wearing a different CafePress-generated shirt I made for a failed web-based e-mail project.

...
I feel that as long as the level editor is free and fans can make their own holds, then I have no problem with you charging for \"official\" holds.
Thanks, Matt.

-Erik


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02-09-2003 at 09:18 PM
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eytanz
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erikh2000 wrote:
I want to make money from DROD.

That\'s perfectly understandably, and natural. I personally have no problem with any of your plans as described, and will probably be buying commercial DROD holds as they become available.

One question:
After that, we\'ll start working on a hold called \"DROD: Journey to Rooted Hold\". We plan to release the hold simultaneously with a new version of Caravel DROD that comes with a smaller hold to get your feet wet. So you can download Caravel DROD (free) and play through the introductory levels (free).

Do you mean by this that the current level-set will no longer be part of the free DROD at that point?

Eytan

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02-09-2003 at 10:31 PM
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ErikH2000
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eytanz wrote:
Do you mean by this that the current level-set will no longer be part of the free DROD at that point?
Not at all.

The \"Dugan\'s Dungeon\" hold (current level-set) will stay free. Caravel will release other holds, some free, some not.

In the next version of DROD, there is an extra button on the title screen that lets you select which hold to play. You can add more holds from which to select. The latest version of DROD would be able to play all the holds--old and new.

-Erik

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02-09-2003 at 11:20 PM
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ClaytonW
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I know I\'ve talked to you about this before Erik, but the fact remains:

Couldn\'t one guy who buys the holds use his level editor to distribute them free?
02-10-2003 at 12:25 AM
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Malarame
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ClaytonW wrote:
Couldn\'t one guy who buys the holds use his level editor to distribute them free?
There\'s probably a way to make it so the commercial holds can\'t be accessed by the level editor.

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02-10-2003 at 12:50 AM
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ErikH2000
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ClaytonW wrote:
Couldn\'t one guy who buys the holds use his level editor to distribute them free?
Yes, but it would be illegal because the commercial holds would not be licensed for redistribution.

-Erik

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02-10-2003 at 12:53 AM
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ErikH2000
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Malarame wrote:
There\'s probably a way to make it so the commercial holds can\'t be accessed by the level editor.
There\'s always ways to pirate the data, especially since the DROD source will stay open. We may have some technical safeguards, but they can\'t be relied upon too heavily.

The fact that we are distributing media as the product and not an executable doesn\'t change much. Either is pirated just as easily.

-Erik

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02-10-2003 at 12:59 AM
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Malarame
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Well, I hope that the DROD community is mature enough not to provide anyone with illegal copies of the holds that you\'ll be selling. I may be wrong, but it doesn\'t seem like this community would resort to warez (I know I wouldn\'t, for DROD at least). And anyway, I would bet that there are enough honest people here that someone would report any website where you could download the holds. Remember, if other people can find this stuff, so can we. Plus, think about it logically. Let\'s say you sell five copies, all to people you know on the forum. If some shmoe you\'ve never heard of all of the sudden registers and starts asking for help, you know that there\'s something fishy going on.

However, I could just be looking at the world through rose-colored glasses. I have been known to be quite idealistic at times.

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02-10-2003 at 02:14 AM
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Schik
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erikh2000 wrote:
The development process will be a lot different. If you’re a coder that wants to write some improvements into DROD, the first thing is you’d have to be open-minded about other folks making money on it. The second thing is that you wouldn’t have access to the latest source code. I think those two things are going to greatly dampen people’s desire to jump in as contributors, but if we get some indie developers, I would like to help them out so it isn’t that bad. This help would include:
The way I see it, if I were writing code for DROD, nobody would be making money off of it - people might make money off of new holds, but that\'s different. I\'ve played with the level editor a little, and I\'ve proven pretty convincingly that I\'m horrible at making levels. So people making money off of new holds wouldn\'t bother me in the least.

However, it seems that it would be much harder to contribute any code, which is what I\'m interested in. From the sounds of it, since it is open-source, I can grab the latest released source and make my own modifications, but I\'m not at all interested in splitting off my own little \"SchikDROD\" or anything, I just wanted to contribute to the real deal. Is there any place for that with the new business model?

If not, that\'s perfectly fine, it\'s your baby - I\'m just curious, and interested in contributing if possible.



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02-10-2003 at 02:41 AM
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Korgath
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Pay for DROD eh?
Well I\'m a poor poor bastard. Too poor for a $20 dungeon. That\'s just me though. If you guys want to make money off your stuff go for it. I\'d love to buy DROD stuff but I won\'t. DROD is still the greatest game ever made.

I do have a question though. Will all new features be added into the the official free DROD? Are the dungeons the only thing that will cost money? When is that level editor coming?
02-10-2003 at 04:32 AM
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ErikH2000
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Schik wrote:
From the sounds of it, since it is open-source, I can grab the latest released source and make my own modifications, but I\'m not at all interested in splitting off my own little \"SchikDROD\" or anything, I just wanted to contribute to the real deal.
Schik, see my reply on Development board.

-Erik

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02-10-2003 at 05:21 PM
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ErikH2000
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Korgath wrote:
Pay for DROD eh?
Well I\'m a poor poor bastard. Too poor for a $20 dungeon. That\'s just me though. If you guys want to make money off your stuff go for it. I\'d love to buy DROD stuff but I won\'t. DROD is still the greatest game ever made.
There should be a ton of free levels out there made with the level editor, so you won\'t go hungry. I compare the DROD people\'s level of involvement to that of the fans of games like Chip\'s Challenge, LaserTank, and Mesh. Those games have lots of extra levels to play, and DROD will too.

I do have a question though. Will all new features be added into the the official free DROD?
Yes.
Are the dungeons the only thing that will cost money?
Yes.
When is that level editor coming?
I don\'t know. We\'ll be coding in the moonlight.

-Erik

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02-10-2003 at 05:37 PM
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Watcher
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I guess I am echoing everyone else here, but I don\'t see a problem with this either. Especially since we don\'t have to pay for any features, only for puzzles.

Edit: Huh, I have more than 1000 posts? Did I miss something? I signed up after your \"Senior Members\" announcement...

[Edited by Watcher on 02-13-2003 at 11:56 PM GMT]

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02-13-2003 at 10:55 PM
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