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navithmastero
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icon Collection 2 (+3)  
Hi all,

I'd really like to publish a hold this year and over the last couple of years have produced a bunch of rooms which I consider to be of good enough quality to go into a hold. This currently single level hold is a selection of them.

While this is sort of a spiritual sequel to an earlier hold, the rooms are more thematic and the difficulty far more uniform across the rooms. The rooms mainly focus on lynchpin puzzles with monster manipulation and magic sequences being kept to a minimum.

There are three puzzle levels. Oasis focusses on Time Clones, Caves focusses on snakes.

I now consider the puzzles to be finished conceptually. Please test them if you have the time!

-navithmastero

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 12-26-2020 09:14 PM]
08-31-2020 at 04:14 PM
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navithmastero
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icon Re: Collection 2 (+1)  
Update!

I've decided structurally that the best way to split out the hold is into 3 thematic levels:

-Caves: snakes (currently has 6 puzzle rooms)
-Oasis: timeclones and some puffs (currently has 7 puzzle rooms)
-Fortress: miscellanious (currently has 3 puzzle rooms)

There's a one room hub level from which you can access any of the puzzle levels.

I've also added in a few new rooms, so any feedback is much appreciated.

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 09-04-2020 05:34 PM]
09-04-2020 at 05:34 PM
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Dischorran
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File: C2 Caves 1S3W Victory.demo (2.6 KB)
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icon Re: Collection 2 (+12)  
Is this intended?

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09-05-2020 at 10:21 PM
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Dischorran
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File: C2 Caves 1W Victory.demo (2.9 KB)
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icon Re: Collection 2 (+10)  
Also this one as requested in chat.

Since I'm terrible at time clones and route planning, I'd like to encourage others to test this as well in the spirit of keeping the public DROD community going.

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09-05-2020 at 10:52 PM
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navithmastero
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Thanks for these Dischorran.

First one: not really intended - thinking at the moment I might just can that room and go build another in its place.

Second one: definitely not intended.

In light of this ^ I've posted an update!

-Fixed Caves: 1W to hopefully prevent solutions in the vein of Dischorran's solution (I *think* this will work, but am not 100%).
-Added a new room in Fortress


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[Last edited by navithmastero at 09-05-2020 11:14 PM]
09-05-2020 at 11:12 PM
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navithmastero
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icon Re: Collection 2 (0)  
Just a small update:

-Fixed an US in Oasis: 1E

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09-06-2020 at 11:48 PM
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navithmastero
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icon Re: Collection 2 (+1)  
Update (found in original post):

-Added a puzzle into Oasis: 1S

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09-08-2020 at 12:39 PM
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navithmastero
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icon Re: Collection 2 (0)  
Update:

I built a room! It's in Oasis.

On that note, Oasis has got 9 puzzle rooms so is nearly complete (I might build one more room, depending on whether I get any inspiration).

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09-11-2020 at 10:34 PM
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navithmastero
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icon Re: Collection 2 (+1)  
Update:

A bunch of new rooms. Yay!

Also, I'd really appreciate any comments anyone has as I've still not had very much feedback at all. Even if it's just 'I couldn't do these rooms they are hard', all feedback is helpful!

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 09-28-2020 03:22 PM]
09-28-2020 at 03:11 PM
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File: Collection 2 Oasis Rabs.demo (17.3 KB)
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icon Re: Collection 2 (+1)  
Here are some Oasis demos.

1E: didn't use wubba
1S: didn't use spear
1S1E: nice!
2S1E: I think I did it the intended way.
3S, 3S1E: I think I did them in unintended ways.
4S: Not sure if solution was intended. Timing northmost plate press correctly was a bit of trial and error.
2S1W: all good. I don't think conquer token is required.
3S1W: I think I broke it.
Entrance: Blue door stairs end hold.

[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 10-02-2020 04:55 AM]
10-02-2020 at 02:21 AM
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navithmastero
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Rabscuttle wrote:
Here are some Oasis demos.

1E: didn't use wubba
1S: didn't use spear
1S1E: nice!
2S1E: I think I did it the intended way.
3S, 3S1E: I think I did them in unintended ways.
4S: Not sure if solution was intended. Timing northmost plate press correctly was a bit of trial and error.
2S1W: all good. I don't think conquer token is required.
3S1W: I think I broke it.
Entrance: Blue door stairs end hold.

Brilliant - thanks for this Rabscuttle. I've hopefully fixed everything you broke here. I haven't done anything to 1S or 4S yet as I may end up replacing them as I realise that 1S doesn't really do exactly what I want it to and 4S I'm also not sure about but everything else which you broke has been updated to hopefully fix this! For 2S1E that also wasn't intended so I've also updated this one. See the original post for the hold.

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10-02-2020 at 09:42 AM
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navithmastero
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icon Re: Collection 2 (+1)  
As well as fixing the above breaks I've also changed a couple of rooms and swapped one of the rooms in Oasis. Check it out!

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10-03-2020 at 02:18 PM
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icon Re: Collection 2 (+2)  
Played through Fortress and Caves. Broke a number of rooms. Some severely, others mildly.

Fortress
===============
1N1W: Neither the keg or the gentryii seemed especially important for clearing the room. It's fine if the gentryii is supposed to be an obstacle and not the centerpiece of the solution.
1W: Didn't use the mirror.
1S1W: Solved with one golem.
1S: OK. Needed some trial and error to get the timing right. There's a disabled force arrow on the east side that isn't activated by anything.
Entrance: Stairs behind the blue door end the hold instead of going to Gates.

Caves
===============
1W: Creating a mud baby breaks the room.
1S1W: Seems fiddly. I think I got lucky that my solution worked as quickly as it did.
1S2W: Didn't use the construct.
1S3W: OK. Simple room about execution and snake clock.
2W: Possibly unintended solution. Felt like the adder should've done more.
1N1E: Broken at the moment (I note that the scroll says it's unfinished).
1N2E: I think I did this one as intended.
2E: Broken. Didn't use most of the things in this room.
1E: Possibly unintended solution. Various things didn't make sense like the trapdoor, the second eyeball and the rattlesnake's length.

Oasis
===============
Entrance: Stairs behind the blue door go to Oasis:Entrance instead of Gates (didn't play this level yet, but checked in the editor and this still happens in the Oct3 version).
10-03-2020 at 05:31 PM
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navithmastero
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Awesome, thanks Doom, this really helps. I *think* I've fixed everything although I can't be sure. Hopefully the changes I've made will be enough to prevent these breaks without opening up new ways to cheese the room. Please see attached hold in the first post.

Edit: looks like I accidentally made one of the rooms impossible. I have now fixed this.

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 10-04-2020 02:35 PM]
10-03-2020 at 10:05 PM
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icon Re: Collection 2 (+1)  
Been away over the weekend, couple of quick comments on the latest version.

Caves: 1W - checkpoint on the trapdoor would be convenient. There are not enough oremites near the top and you can still create a mud baby to release the adder for you.

Caves: 1E - Where the token's placed makes it look like it should be usable only once. You can move it if you want to make it clearer that it can be used multiple times.
10-06-2020 at 10:49 AM
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navithmastero
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Rabscuttle wrote:
Been away over the weekend, couple of quick comments on the latest version.

Caves: 1W - checkpoint on the trapdoor would be convenient. There are not enough oremites near the top and you can still create a mud baby to release the adder for you.

Caves: 1E - Where the token's placed makes it look like it should be usable only once. You can move it if you want to make it clearer that it can be used multiple times.

I've swapped the trapdoor for a tunnel in 1W to make it impossible for a monster to step on the PP.

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Good point for 1E - I've moved the token a couple of squares to the south to make it hopefully a little clearer that you can step on it multiple times. See the first post for an update.

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10-06-2020 at 12:28 PM
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icon Re: Collection 2 (0)  
navithmastero wrote:
Rabscuttle wrote:

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10-06-2020 at 01:16 PM
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navithmastero
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Rabscuttle wrote:
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Thanks for the demo. Agreed this looks like it's pretty trial and error and so doesn't look like a super fun way of doing things. The only way I can think of to prevent a solution like this is to impose some kind of time limit (i.e. to make sure the adder destroys the mud blob within x turns). In general, I'm not against alternative room solutions provided they don't completely break things but this one I'd hopefully enforce the intended solution just because it seems like it's much easier to reason out what's going on (in terms of snake movement) with my solution versus with a solution like yours.

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[Last edited by navithmastero at 10-06-2020 01:32 PM]
10-06-2020 at 01:32 PM
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Looked at the changed rooms in Caves (minus 2E, saving that for another day)

1W: Another demonstration like Rabscuttle's. This specific approach didn't require trial and error.
2W: Found more tricks in this room. You don't need the adder at all.
1S2W: Previous solution still works with small modifications.
1E: Previous solution still works with small modifications.
10-06-2020 at 02:48 PM
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navithmastero
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Doom wrote:
Looked at the changed rooms in Caves (minus 2E, saving that for another day)

1W: Another demonstration like Rabscuttle's. This specific approach didn't require trial and error.
2W: Found more tricks in this room. You don't need the adder at all.
1S2W: Previous solution still works with small modifications.
1E: Previous solution still works with small modifications.

Thanks Doom. 1S2W, your solution is definitely not now possible. I *hope* that this is also the case for 2W and 1E, and based on my preliminary testing I think it is but I can't be 100% sure.

As for 1W, I'm not really sure what to do. I guess I could shuffle round the room slightly so your solution isn't possible but this seems like a lot of hastle and would not necessarily be effective. I will think some more on 1W and will play around with different room geometry etc. to see if I can find a better way of doing things.

Please see updated version in the first post!

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10-06-2020 at 05:15 PM
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Here's some room breaks in Oasis and Caves. Comments coming later probably.

I didn't solve Oasis 1S1E but I'm also not sure it's possible. It looks like
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10-06-2020 at 05:18 PM
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navithmastero
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blorx1 wrote:
Here's some room breaks in Oasis and Caves. Comments coming later probably.

I didn't solve Oasis 1S1E but I'm also not sure it's possible. It looks like
Click here to view the secret text

Thanks for these demos Blorx. Super helpful. I've (hopefully) fixed the rooms in Oasis that you broke (1E, 3S, 4S, 3S1W, 2S1W) and also made some changes to 3S1E as I found some of my own breaks.

I've also made another change to Caves 1N2E. I'll note that you were playing the old version of a few rooms (1E, 2W, 1S2W) so you might want to replay those with my changes and see if you can find a different solution.

I've updated the first post with the most up-to-date versions.

Thanks all for your input!

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10-06-2020 at 10:51 PM
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navithmastero
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Blorx messaged me in chat last night with a couple of comments regarding breaks in Oasis and Caves (C: 2W, O: 3S and O:3S1W) so I've made a couple of changes to these rooms.

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10-07-2020 at 10:19 AM
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Doom
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Played through a few more rooms.

Caves:
2W - Solved without the adder (again).
2E - Solved without the mud token. Would've been far easier with it, but wanted to prove that it's not strictly needed.

Oasis:
1S - Solved without the spear.
1E - Possible unintended solution. Timeclones only did the obvious. Looks like you might have wanted them to participate in monster pushing first.
1S1E - Solved a few weeks ago, don't recall feeling like I broke anything.
10-17-2020 at 05:51 PM
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navithmastero
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Thanks Doom! I am working on fixing these and adding in a few more rooms for the next update which will hopefully be out within the next few days!

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10-22-2020 at 02:38 PM
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navithmastero
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Hi all, sorry for the delay in updating this. I've been swamped with unforeseen circumstances in real life which meant I've not had as much time as I'd have liked to work on this. In light of these events I've decided to shrink down to the project to just two levels (Oasis and Caves) comprising of a total of 19 puzzle rooms to play around with, with two main themes being time clones and snakes, but there are also a few miscellanious rooms thrown in here and there for good measure. Everything is open so all rooms are accessible whenever you want to play them and hopefully the rooms should be fun. As for progress I now consider all of the puzzles to be finished conceptually and now just need testing. I may add a minimal story to the hold but this will not affect the core playing experience of the puzzles etc. Ideally, I'd like to release this, or at least have it sent off to the HAs before 2021 so that's a rough target I'm aiming for so I'd appreciate any testing ASAP :). As for specific rooms that need looking at, I'll list them below as these are the rooms which have had the least amount of testing or had issues in the last version of the hold:

Oasis
1E
1S
3S1E
3S
3S1W

Caves
1E
1N2E
1S2W
2W

Obviously all testing would be much appreciated but I think these are the rooms which need looking at the most.

You can find the most recent version of the hold in the original post. Have fun!

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12-08-2020 at 09:44 PM
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komachi
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Watching Dragon Fogel stream give me some encourage to try DROD again. I managed to beat some rooms in Caves.
Caves 1E: most of the time was spent trying to send the wraithwing in the snake room.
Caves 2E: messing around with the token and the babies so only one exit. It was fun.
Caves 1N1E: Can be cleared with two golems.
Caves 1W: Some trial and error until adjusted snake movement so go north and not east.
ED: just cleared 1N2E, I liked it. Trying configurations until it worked out.
I'm trying caves 2W, so far I tried most of configurations in this room but didn't work, maybe I'm missing something.
Click here to view the secret text

Here are the demos in case I broke something.

[Last edited by komachi at 01-06-2021 01:30 PM]
01-06-2021 at 01:12 PM
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navithmastero
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Thanks for taking a look Komachi! Can I ask you to reupload your demos? I unfortunately I can only see demos for 1W and 2E for some reason.

Your solution for 2E definitely isn't exactly what's intended - in my solution I only step on the token a couple of times and let the shape I have carved out in the walls do the work. Glad you still find it enjoyable using your method though. Similarly, 1W isn't how I did it and I want to try and avoid having people use your solution because in the intended solution there is no where near as much trial and error with snake. Unfortunately with an open-ended room like this one it is difficult to stop most solutions although I have stopped your particular solution with the updated hold, it won't stop other solutions similar in nature so I have put in a scroll to advise the player against trying to brute force the solution.

As for 2W:
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01-06-2021 at 03:10 PM
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komachi
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icon Re: Collection 2 (+1)  
I was using a previous version (v4 not v5), only 1W is broken, the others are fine. I will remove the demos from my another reply.

[Last edited by komachi at 01-06-2021 05:00 PM]
01-06-2021 at 04:56 PM
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navithmastero
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Thanks again for your demos komachi! I've taken a look at your demos again and so have made a couple of changes to Caves 1W and 1N1W to prevent your (unintended!) solutions. Particular issues in 1W were that I did not realise that using the decoy to force the WW into the snake room was possible. It is not intended for that to be possible. Also I wanted all 3 golems to be used in 1N1W so have trivially fixed that room to hopefully work as intended.

Just a quick note to say that this was submitted to the HAs a couple of weeks ago so comments are still much appreciated while they're still working through it but once they've approved the hold it will be going up! Not sure how long that'll be though so feel free to let me know if you've got any more thoughts etc. Cheers!

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01-07-2021 at 10:32 PM
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