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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : General : Twisty Little Passages (Crowdfunding project for a puzzle dungeon crawl adventure game book)
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mrimer
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quote:
Dischorran wrote:
Mine arrived today. Markers work fine, I quickly learned to ignore the recommended notation in favor of numbering by step,
I did that a fair amount too.
quote:
I'm escaping with plenty of life because there's clearly enough room on either side of the enemies for an expert spy to slip past without fighting.
Eh...I didn't do that...

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.
06-22-2020 at 05:34 PM
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MHighbrow
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My physical copy arrived this morning (in the UK)! Only done the first six mazes so far, but I'm completely happy with it - the book looks and feels great, annotating with the dry-erase markers works well, and the puzzles are already kind of tricky by the second chapter. Well done!
06-22-2020 at 06:21 PM
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mrimer
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MHighbrow wrote:
My physical copy arrived this morning (in the UK)! Only done the first six mazes so far, but I'm completely happy with it - the book looks and feels great, annotating with the dry-erase markers works well, and the puzzles are already kind of tricky by the second chapter. Well done!
Woo hoo! Good to hear you received your copy in the UK and I appreciate the feedback. So happy you're enjoying the experience so far! :)

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.
06-22-2020 at 10:54 PM
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mrimer
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icon Re: Twisty Little Passages (+2)  
quote:
RoboBob3000 wrote:
Challenge: Beat Area 2-3 with 4HP remaining.

(At least I think I did all the math right.)
Yes, you did the math right and found an unintended solution. RoboBob3000 (and whitehelm) gain the honorary distinction of being Especially Clever!

Here is an errata to puzzle 2-3 (central area) to prevent the unintended solution:
Click here to view the secret text

The digital version has been updated with the fix in v1.01.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

[Last edited by mrimer at 06-22-2020 11:01 PM]
06-22-2020 at 10:57 PM
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martz
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icon Re: Twisty Little Passages (+2)  
Another UK recipient here - mine arrived on Friday.

I have a bit of damage to the ring-binding - presuming this happened in transit as the packaging was a bit beaten up, but should be able to bend back into shape with no problem.
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
Without struggle, there is no progress, so get up, get out, and go make the rest of your life the best of your life; you deserve to live the life that YOU want to live...

Progress - Gavin G

[Last edited by martz at 06-23-2020 10:44 AM]
06-23-2020 at 10:40 AM
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slimm tom
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My copy of TLP arrived last Friday (in the Netherlands) just when I had left for a couple of days. I arrived back home late yesterday evening and the book looks fantastic! Can't wait to start on it this week.

Thanks Mike (and everyone else who helped out) for getting this out there, will definitely post back here later when I've had the chance to play through a decent amount of the puzzles.

[Last edited by slimm tom at 06-25-2020 10:32 AM]
06-25-2020 at 10:31 AM
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enzi666
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Just wanted to chime in to say my 2 copies have arrived today and big thank you. It's beautiful!

____________________________
58th Skywatcher

DROD AE: Finished - KDD2: Mastered
JTRH: Mastered
TCB: Mastered - RPG: Finished
GatEB: Mastered - TSS: Mastered
06-25-2020 at 02:37 PM
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kieranmillar
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Just received my copy. Wow! The quality is incredible, it looks and feels great. Despite seeing the pdf proofs during production I didnt quite realise it would come out as big, sharp and clear as it does. I think I was just looking at the pages on a lower zoom level, hah.
06-25-2020 at 04:16 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Twisty Little Passages (+14)  
Alternative win condition here, as promised.



____________________________
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Dischorran at 06-27-2020 04:03 AM]
06-27-2020 at 03:52 AM
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mrimer
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Martz, thank you for showing a pic of the packaging issue. Yes, this should be fixable, and please let me know if you encounter any non-fixable issues.

slimm tom, so glad you like the look! Hope you enjoy the puzzles just as much once you get into them.

enzi666, I appreciate the kind words, and you're welcome! :)

Kieran, I can completely relate to what you're saying. Seeing the book in person is glorious! (And if you try playing a puzzle in this format, I am betting you will think, "How effortless!")

Dischorran, I'm honored to witness cats liking TLP. Definitely a win!

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.
06-28-2020 at 05:10 AM
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west.logan
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What a great book, it's simply a pleasure to thumb through and hold!

It was also a surprise (a pleasant one) to see my name on the backer list. I'd honestly forgotten what level I'd backed it at ;)

The boys and I have worked through the first six puzzles together (I'm tricking them into doing math). Thanks everyone who worked on this!

____________________________
-Logan
06-28-2020 at 11:12 PM
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Blondbeard
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My book has arrived as well, and it is everything I hoped for. I have just compleated area 3-4, and have to say it astonishes me how such a simple concept could become so tricky for me!

The math is very simple, and elegant, yet I had such a hard time figuring out the principles that would lead to victory. I so love it when the solution isn't just brute force, and trial and error, but rather figuring something out.

As a side note my six year old is mesmerized by the book, and the math behind it. He can't really do arithmetic yet, but he loves math. He can sit and stare at a page for an hour. He loves the dynamics between ATK, DEF and HP.

I also installed DROD RPG for comparrison. I love them both, but it really is a diferent flavour with the perfect information contained on a single page (or two) rather than the huge exploration element of DROD RPG.

It is also really nice with a book, that you can touch and feel, and keep in your lap, and move between rooms.

Thanks for the fantastic work, Mike (and the rest of you)! There is always the posibility that things will get too hard for me as I approach the end, but I've already got my moneys worth of excellent puzzles!

Any chance of a sequel?

Edit: I told my son that it was the same person who had made DROD RPG and TLP, and that his name was Mike. He said: "In that case I like Mike!" I also showed him a little bit of TSS, and he just wanted me to keep going. He restated how he liked Mike when I told him that Mike had done that game too.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 06-29-2020 08:42 PM]
06-29-2020 at 07:11 PM
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Meta
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Edit (July 3): I have finished all areas. Below are all unintended solutions I found.

Area 4-3: HP 7
Area 4-3: Edit (after seeing jlm's soluton) HP 9
Area 4-3: HP 5, key 1
Area 4-3: HP 1, pickaxe 1
Area 4-3: Edit (after seeing jlm's soluton) HP 3, pickaxe 1

Area 4-3 (secret exit): HP 11
Area 4-3 (secret exit): HP 2, key 1

Area 4-5: HP 3

Area 5-2: HP 10
Area 5-2: HP 6, key 1

Area 5-4: HP 7
Area 5-4 (only use altar once): HP 4

Area 6-1: HP 1, key 1

Area 6-2: HP 8
Area 6-2 (only use altar twice): HP 4

All other areas (v1.01) probably have unique solutions in HP and keys.

I am starting to solve the metapuzzle. I will see if it also has an unintended solution.

Edit (July 4): I compared my solutions with the intended solutions (starting from page 96). Although some of my solutions finish the area with HP 1 and no keys, my routes are still different from the intended ones. I list those solutions and comparison below.

Area 3-4: finish with +1 DEF Radiant Word effect
Area 3-4 (intended): finish with no Radiant Word effect

Area 3-Secret: finish with 3 tentacles left
Area 3-Secret (intended): finish with 4 tentacles left

Edit (Aug 7): All unintended solutions above ending with more resources have been fixed in 1.02.


[Last edited by Meta at 08-07-2020 03:46 AM]
06-30-2020 at 11:42 PM
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Meta
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The stats for Dark Zombie (area 5-4) are inconsistent with the damage table.

Possible fix: change Dark Zombie's ATK from 19 to 17. [thanks! fixing -- mrimer]

[Last edited by mrimer at 07-09-2020 04:36 PM]
07-02-2020 at 02:19 AM
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Blondbeard
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Some feedback:

1) In general I think it becomes quite tedious to do calculations as numbers grow bigger.

2)It is also important for me that the puzzles have some kind of "Ah, of course!" feeling to them. When solved it should feel obvious what the crucial step was, and why.

I feel this may get a bit lost when things gets more complicated. A great example for me is area 4-5, that I just compleated. There are so many elements that goes into what makes the optimal route optimal that it feels more like trial and error than having figured something out, that is obvious in hindsight.

There actually is one element that stood out as something I figured out
Click here to view the secret text
, but the rest was just a bit too much. I would have prefered if the "trial and error" part (the pathmapping) had been a little more obvious. Even when trying diferent paths it isn't trivial to get a definite feel for having choosen the right one. At least not for me. I do realize that the point where a puzzle feels too hard to parse varies for diferent players, but in this case I think identifying the right pathmap is quite hard for most players.

3) There is always a bit of a strange situation when players goes into a game with diferent backgrounds. Having played DROD RPG whith aumtlichs quite a lot the thinking behind area 5-1 becomes quite trivial. Without that experience it would probably feel quite hard. I would have prefered for the mechanic to have been introduced in an earlier puzzle that would be appropriatly easy for both kinds of players, while such a late game puzzle should probably have been a bit more tricky.

I just want to end by saying that there is zero intent on my part to nag about this game that I love. If this feedback feels as if it is hurtful, and doesn't offer anything of value please let me know. That way I can avoid posting anything similar in the future :).

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 07-03-2020 08:37 AM]
07-03-2020 at 08:37 AM
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jlm
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icon Re: Twisty Little Passages (+2)  
I found 4-3 to be a big difficulty spike from the earlier puzzles. It took me 4 to 5 times as long to solve as 4-1 took. But I just finished it and have 8 excess HP! Before, excess HP meant that I mis-accounted my keys or health, and playing through again would reveal my error, but not this time. Seeing that Meta got 6 excess, I think mine could be legit, but I leave open the possibility that I'm a fool who's making the same error in checking as in solving it.

Either way, it's certainly kept me thinking. Great job, Mike Rimer & co.!
07-05-2020 at 10:05 PM
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Meta
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jlm wrote:
I found 4-3 to be a big difficulty spike from the earlier puzzles. It took me 4 to 5 times as long to solve as 4-1 took. But I just finished it and have 8 excess HP! Before, excess HP meant that I mis-accounted my keys or health, and playing through again would reveal my error, but not this time. Seeing that Meta got 6 excess, I think mine could be legit, but I leave open the possibility that I'm a fool who's making the same error in checking as in solving it.

Either way, it's certainly kept me thinking. Great job, Mike Rimer & co.!


I can confirm that yours is legit. Your solution is the same with mine with HP 7 up to your step 25. I went to fetch the western pickaxe instead, and failed to notice a cheaper one above it. Good job!

[Last edited by Meta at 07-05-2020 10:39 PM]
07-05-2020 at 10:26 PM
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dojo_b
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Excited! Got mine and was quickly impressed enough to order one for a friend.

Can anyone suggest a good dry-erase pen for use with this book? (sorry for the likely duplicate Q.) I've enjoyed doing the early ones in my head, but imagine that will get harder to pull off.
07-05-2020 at 11:56 PM
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west.logan
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I am always humbled by the people on this board. I'm only up to 2-4 and already think its hard. I never beat Tendry's Tale either :~(

I agree with Blondbeard about the calculations though. I'm trying to come up with a better system for keeping score but I find myself with my RPN calculator next to me, adding and subtracting as I go to keep the tally. Actually, if there were a DROD RPG hold for this, I'd probably let it keep the score for me!

____________________________
-Logan

[Last edited by west.logan at 07-06-2020 06:27 PM]
07-06-2020 at 06:26 PM
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mauvebutterfly
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I ordered this during the kickstarter campaign but still haven't heard anything about my copies. Is there a way to check if I need to cover tariff/import fees or something? The shipping address is in Canada, and I've had international packages not show up in the past due to poor communication on the part of the Canadian postal service (needed to pay a fee for them to deliver it, but they wouldn't tell me I needed to pay a fee until after delivering it.)

Alternatively, it could just be an issue of Canada's postal system being slow and terrible. Anyone else from Canada received their copy?

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07-06-2020 at 11:18 PM
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mrimer
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mauvebutterfly wrote:
Alternatively, it could just be an issue of Canada's postal system being slow and terrible. Anyone else from Canada received their copy?
My apologies for the delay in getting your KS reward to you. It took a while for the two shipments being sent to pass through customs to reach our Canadian fulfillment partner (Snakes and Lattes), who only received everything last week. They previously told me they are shipping orders out early this week. I've just reached out to them again to follow up on whether that's happened yet. I'll keep you in the loop when I hear back, but hopefully this means you may receive TLP within the next week or so (I'm not familiar with Canadian post timeframes).

Edit: I just heard back from S&L that orders are being picked up by Canada Post before end of day. Tracking numbers will be provided by tomorrow. Yay!

Edit: ...and I've received confirmation that Canadian backers are now receiving the book!

quote:
Is there a way to check if I need to cover tariff/import fees or something?
I did my best to keep shipping costs for Canadian backers as low as possible. The KS reward deliveries are shipping from within Canada, so there should be no tariff/import fees for you to worry about.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

[Last edited by mrimer at 07-09-2020 04:37 PM]
07-07-2020 at 07:38 PM
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mrimer
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quote:
dojo_b wrote:
Excited! Got mine and was quickly impressed enough to order one for a friend.
Thank you for the kind words and the order!
quote:
Can anyone suggest a good dry-erase pen for use with this book? (sorry for the likely duplicate Q.) I've enjoyed doing the early ones in my head, but imagine that will get harder to pull off.
I've had good experience with ProMarx and Expo brand markers, especially fine-tipped ones with a felt eraser on the cap.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.
07-07-2020 at 07:45 PM
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mrimer
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west.logan wrote:
I am always humbled by the people on this board. I'm only up to 2-4 and already think its hard. I never beat Tendry's Tale either :~(
Yes, these puzzles aren't intended to pull any punches. Suggest it's fine peeking at a hint in the back of the book if you find yourself frustrated with what to do next.
quote:
I agree with Blondbeard about the calculations though. I'm trying to come up with a better system for keeping score but I find myself with my RPN calculator next to me, adding and subtracting as I go to keep the tally. Actually, if there were a DROD RPG hold for this, I'd probably let it keep the score for me!
This is definitely a valid point. Computers are good at this sort of thing! I tried to keep numbers somewhat low so there isn't too much brain-intensive counting to do.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.
07-07-2020 at 07:51 PM
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mrimer
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quote:
Blondbeard wrote:
I just want to end by saying that there is zero intent on my part to nag about this game that I love. If this feedback feels as if it is hurtful, and doesn't offer anything of value please let me know. That way I can avoid posting anything similar in the future :).
Totally valid feedback! I appreciate you sharing it. I can take it, and please keep it coming :)

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.
07-07-2020 at 07:55 PM
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jlm
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quote:
Area 3-4: finish with +1 DEF Radiant Word effect


It's not clear whether this means to come into the fight with Theg with +1 or leave the fight with +1. (They both can be done. ;))
07-08-2020 at 04:56 AM
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Blondbeard
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Having compleated the game I have this interesting roller-coaster experience. I really enjoyed the start, and the end. There was a noticable dip in enjoyement for some of the puzzles between and including area 4-3 to 5-3.

Just as jlm I found 4-3 to be a really tough area. It kind of reminds me of DROD rooms refered to as "magic sequence"-rooms. You find the sequence of moves that just works, and I find it really hard to look at the puzzle in hindsight, and have the solution pop out at me.

Before area 5-4 I kind of wanted to be done with the game, if this trend would continue. I really enjoyed the last three puzzles, though, and was quite sad when I was done. For me the last puzzles seemed to have some branching decissions that I could judge in advance (rather than just trying them out).

I could iteratively work out how and why to solve the puzzle the way I did, and had a few HP to spare. I also think the last puzzles where a bit more "open", and I really enjoy the idea behind an altar. I find it even more fitting for a confined game like TLP than for a big game like Tower of the Sorcerer or DROD RPG (where small deviations add up and makes the end-game trivial).

Again: In some cases it's probably just my brain that is not up to the job, and this will differ for different brains. But for my brain the difficulty of e.g. area 4-3 or area 4-5 is of a different kind than the difficulty of area 5-4. I did find 5-4 hard, but in a way where I could work towards a solution in a way that I could evaluate and understand.

In conclusion I would have liked to see more puzzles like those at the very end, and actually non at all of puzzles that seemed like "magic move sequences". I'm really happy the game ended on a such high note for me :).

One final bit of feedback: I would have appreciated if it was explicitly written when a secret route was impossible. Something like: "This seems impossible right now. I may have to come back to this, somehow".

Thanks again, mrimer, and thanks to everybody who made this project a reality!
07-08-2020 at 06:13 AM
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Blondbeard
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quote:
mrimer wrote:
I tried to keep numbers somewhat low so there isn't too much brain-intensive counting to do.


Interestingly enough I felt the final puzzle was quite easy to calculate. More so than e.g. area 4-4. I think this is due to the HP potions being spaced out the way they are, and being nice, even numbers that are quite close to the cost of defeating monsters. In area 4-4 the calculations somehow got more tricky for me.

I actually also think this is partially due to the puzzle being a bit more "cluttered" in area 4-4. If you want to do a sweep of moves, and calculate the combined outcome of those moves, it's a bit hard to mentally keep track of where you are, and what your stats are.

I guess I find the layout of 6-2 more "airy", which is a good thing when calculations becomes harder to do.

The most difficult puzzle (to me) when it came to calculations was the Area 5 secret. Area 5-3 was quite hard as well, but for a different reason.
07-08-2020 at 06:37 AM
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disoriented
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I feel very inferior right now.

Level 1-4 has been stumping me for two evenings. I donít seem to have the concentration to keep track of every number correctly, so I keep finding invalid solutions, always making a mistake somewhere.

____________________________
34th Skywatcher

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07-08-2020 at 07:08 AM
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jlm
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quote:
disoriented wrote:
Level 1-4 has been stumping me for two evenings.



I haven't seen this perspective mentioned yet, but one thing I do is to think of myself not like Tendry moving around from discrete location to discrete location, but as Tar growing into new regions. Then each step I make is an expenditure of resources to grow over an obstacle at my periphery and gain whatever loot was behind it. This changes the perspective from running hither and yon to gather the resources for sub-goals and sub-sub-goals to focusing my growth from this region to that region and every obstacle I'm touching is an equally valid potential move. (This doesn't apply to trap-doors or bridges, of course.) Though I'm not sure that will help you any -- I'm far from the fastest solvers here.

07-08-2020 at 08:23 PM
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mrimer
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icon Re: Twisty Little Passages (0)  
quote:
Meta wrote:
The stats for Dark Zombie (area 5-4) are inconsistent with the damage table.

Possible fix: change Dark Zombie's ATK from 19 to 17.
I appreciate you mentioning this. I've corrected it for the next digital version.

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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : General : Twisty Little Passages (Crowdfunding project for a puzzle dungeon crawl adventure game book)
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