averagemoe
Level: Master Delver

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File: Neatherbug.png (680.6 KB)
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I remember that importing the AE version of KDD to newer engines used to replace the 'Neather with what might be described as a pre-scripted NPC. His script could be modified by anyone who gained editing rights.

So I changed computers and lost some data in the process. After regaining editing rights the long way, I get the situation in the attached image.

Notice that the screenshot was taken on the editor screen. I was not holding down the preview key when I took it, but his hair is purple anyway. I can't get at his script either, but he still acts like the 'Neather when I test the room. I can copy and paste him and his behavior still works, but I can't change said behavior. And it's like that for all the rooms.

It's even worse in the Steam version though, because in that he just stands there and screams whenever I try to stab him.

So is there anything I can do to get the "scripted in-engine" version back? They were written on TCB technology and I was hoping to modify them with newer script commands like the _MyScript variables and GoSubs to make them more compact.

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[Last edited by averagemoe at 06-24-2017 09:23 PM]

azb
Level: Master Delver
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In engines starting with 2.0 (JtRH), the "old" 'Neather graphic isn't available like in AE or robin's rendition of AE. It was a design decision to replace the 'Neather sprites with Citizen 1/2 sprites instead.

In addition, the 'Neather is not replaced by a scripted NPC by any means, but rather a hard-coded monster that is identical to how the 'Neather behaves in KDD Level 25.

In the 1.x engine and 2.x engine, he would provide a pop-up message upon stabbing, but in 3.x and more recent engines, he will indeed just scream and do nothing else.

In order for him to work properly, your room coordinates must be valid with KDD Level 25 room coordinates. This means that if you paste him into 3W of a level for instance, there was no 3W in Level 25, so he will indeed do nothing.

This was demonstrated with the famous hold Bad Evil Restaurant, where he is put in room 2N2W, but this does not correspond to any known Level 25 room.

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averagemoe
Level: Master Delver

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Okay, but I remember that he used to be replaced by an NPC. In fact, there was also a little thing added to the hold's description giving credit to the one who scripted it. How can I get that version of him?

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superluminal
Level: Delver
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You may be thinking of The Neather's Lair, a scripting experiment where TFMurphy tried to recreate Twenty-Fifth Level with a scripted character.

His version doesn't quite translate into reality (although TSS would fix the speed problem), but it's the only time I recall when someone programmed the Neather with DROD scripting.

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averagemoe
Level: Master Delver

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I think that's who was credited. I'll try the script from that hold. But I stand by my assertion that the Neather used to be automatically replaced with a scripted NPC.

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Xindaris
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In the linked thread, the paragraph before last, TFMurphy says:

quote:

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TFMurphy wrote: I'll note that the KDD2.0 Neather can be fooled in this manner since that Neather is scripted.

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quote:

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TFMurphy wrote: that Neather is scripted.

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quote:

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TFMurphy wrote: scripted.

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which I think lends credence to averagemoe's contention.

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Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
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That's for KDD 2.0, in which the hardcoded Neather was replaced by a character. It's a different hold from the original AE version, but you can download the hold file for the latter and play it in modern engines. (There's a thread for it somewhere on the Holds board.)

Original KDD grants editor access when you conquer it. 2.0 doesn't. These don't have anything to do with each other.

Resert On
Level: Delver

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File: edited.png (857.4 KB)
Downloaded 168 times.
License: Public Domain

quote:

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azb wrote:
In order for him to work properly, your room coordinates must be valid with KDD Level 25 room coordinates. This means that if you paste him into 3W of a level for instance, there was no 3W in Level 25, so he will indeed do nothing.

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I test it and it's was true.

Also, in DROD: AE, if you do an edit on a room where there is a 'Neather on it, the 'Neather do nothing.
But in DROD 2, if you do an edit on a room where there is a 'Neather on it, the 'Neather do normal. Look at this image:

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[Last edited by Resert On at 06-25-2017 01:53 PM]

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Okay, I am here for you.

'Neather is scripted in: Entrance, 1N, 1N1W, 1N2W, 2W, 1S2W, 1S1W.
'Neather is hardcoded in: 2S2W, 2S1W, 2S, 1S, 1W.

Why? The rooms where he's scripted are relatively simple and possible to do with scripting without too much hassle.

2S2W, 2S1W and 2S have pretty complex interactions so they were either too hard or too much of a hassle to script.
1S is hardcoded... maybe because it's possible to stab 'Neather in the room and it was impossible to detect that with scripting? I don't remember if it was that room.
1W is hardcoded because of the dialogue options on stab.



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robin
Level: Smitemaster

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quote:

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averagemoe wrote:
I think that's who was credited. I'll try the script from that hold. But I stand by my assertion that the Neather used to be automatically replaced with a scripted NPC.

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I think you are looking for my KDD AE hold,
Which can be found in my signature

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[Last edited by robin at 06-26-2017 09:14 AM]

averagemoe
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 104
Registered: 03-22-2012
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quote:

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skell wrote:
1S is hardcoded... maybe because it's possible to stab 'Neather in the room and it was impossible to detect that with scripting? I don't remember if it was that room.

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I'm pretty sure it was because he had to detect if trapdoors were dropped, which wasn't a thing in the JTRH engine.

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Sometimes when I'm in the editor, I like to pretend I'm an architect bossing around a team of builders.