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Nuntar
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<Lucky Luc> I kind of wish there were more beginner-friendly RPG holds, but I think it's hard to make them interesting for experienced
players at the same time

Current status: All finished! Waiting for feedback before sending to HAs.

Tetrahedron is my attempt to make a hold that's beginner-friendly, but at the same time, interesting for experts to optimise. As the name suggests, it's a pyramid with one room on the first level, three, six, ten and so on. There are five main levels and a sixth secret level.

This is a no-backtracking hold. As in Castle Repton, hot tiles do constant damage (100 HP, independent of the multiplier). Accessories, as well as a wider variety of game elements, appear on later levels. The first two levels give a large amount of leeway (it's even possible to complete L2 without taking anything from L1), but (following Kieran's suggestion in his "Guide" topic) I aim to tighten things up as the hold progresses.

Changelog (Latest version: 22 Nov)
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Nuntar at 12-17-2016 12:53 AM]
10-22-2016 at 04:23 AM
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uncopy2002
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icon Re: Tetrahedron (+1)  
Aww, that RBS in level 1 was a big red herring.

Yeah, you can do L2 without taking anything from L1, but that's because you'll be having more greckles to begin with, which means you can take all the stuff behind greckle gates immediately after you're in L2. So it's still multi-level optimization (should I get more ATK for the subsequent levels? Or DEF? Or Greckles? blablabla), except now optimizing the hold becomes harder actually due to being no-backtrackable.

Another side effect of this is that beginners now have much bigger pressure in making the choices because accessibility cutoffs and stuff being forever lost really adds pressure to it, and since you can't catch back the earlier stuff to get a equal ATK/DEF footing, it amplifies the late-game difference.

[Last edited by uncopy2002 at 10-22-2016 07:57 AM]
10-22-2016 at 07:56 AM
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Red-XIII
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quote:
uncopy2002 wrote:
Another side effect of this is that beginners now have much bigger pressure in making the choices because accessibility cutoffs and stuff being forever lost really adds pressure to it, and since you can't catch back the earlier stuff to get a equal ATK/DEF footing, it amplifies the late-game difference.

Uhm, I disagree. For someone who never played DROD RPG is quite hard to understand the butterfly effect, which means making an irrational choice in the beginning but that later really pays off. For example, in this hold I'm thinking about the green key on level 1; I believe it's useless for the first 2 levels but it might be of a great use if later there are more green doors and powerful stuff behind them.

About the hold, I quite liked it. Even though it's relatively easy, I believe it's more oriented to optimizers than beginners (but I think that's ok, afterall this is not a tutorial, right?).
I completed it with 3 routes:

- ATK only on the first level. Final stats: HP 258, ATK 31, DEF 20, GR 26, REP 136 no keys (didn't spend too much time optimizing);
- DEF only on the first level. Final stats: HP 467, ATK 30, DEF 26, GR 45, REP 165 keys 1/1 (didn't spend too much time optimizing);
- All health + 1 ATK on the first level. Final stats: HP 2578, ATK 31, DEF 20, GR 45, REP 165 keys 1/1 (spend a bit optimizing this).

Unless I did something very bad I think that taking health is the best thing to do, since it lets you take the wooden sword immediately (I didn't tried leaving 10 GR on the first level and then immediately grab wooden sword but I think they are pretty close solutions).
Depending on how you proceed on the other levels I might change route but for now I'll stick with my last one.


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10-22-2016 at 10:55 AM
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bomber50
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icon Re: Tetrahedron (+1)  
quote:
uncopy2002 wrote:
Yeah, you can do L2 without taking anything from L1, but that's because you'll be having more greckles to begin with, which means you can take all the stuff behind greckle gates immediately after you're in L2.


This actually isn't true. It's possible to beat L2 without taking anything from L1, and without dropping below 50GR. It's not very easy, though.

My stats for various runs at end of L2, any of which could in theory be the most optimal one:
Click here to view the secret text


I think getting at least one pack of health on L1 is pretty much guaranteed to be optimal, allowing you to grab the wooden shield pretty early and make the level way easier. The yellow and green keys don't seem worth it in my opinion, but that ultimately depends on how the later levels go.

That being said, I thought this was very well done. It was fun to play and optimize, with plenty of depth for being only 3 rooms. Every choice on the second level, IMO, could be useful for some run. I usually have a few key/greckle -> HP trades left over every time, but that's fine.

Looking forward to the next level :)

[Last edited by bomber50 at 10-22-2016 02:29 PM]
10-22-2016 at 02:28 PM
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Lucky Luc
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icon Re: Tetrahedron (+1)  
Oh, sweet! Well, I could hardly not playtest this, could I? :P

Very neat so far, looking forward to more! I've praised no-backtracking holds before, and I stick to it. I also think it's pretty suited for a beginner-friendly hold.

I've decided to do one blind playthrough where I try to backtrack only if absolutely necessary (which I guess would be the beginner POV), as well as an "optimized" playthrough with as much backtracking as I like (which, um, is probably still a beginner POV, but maybe not quite as beginny).

Stats:
Click here to view the secret text

Right now the 800 HP trade seems a bit overpowered, but of course that depends a lot on how long the hold will go on. Considering that the size of the levels will grow pretty quickly, I guess it could actually end up being a pretty even (or even disadvantegous) trade.
10-22-2016 at 11:41 PM
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Red-XIII
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This is great, the number of choices increased A LOT, I really like this hold.
I replayed from the start of course, on level 1 I took 1 ATK, 2 DEF and health, but leaving 10 GR to take immediately wooden sword.
About level 2, what about leaving the option to sheathe your sword so that you can still take the green key behind the trapdoor even after you grab the sword? After all you'd still have to fight the roach queen bare handed.
Stats at the end of level 2:
HP 1491, ATK 31, DEF 24, GR 69, REP 159 keys 1/1

On level 3 things started to get harder and more interesting. I completed it with two different routes.
- Route 1: I dediced not to take short sword, so I used 1 bomb for tar baby and goblin and the other for the rattlesnake. I also had to use the altar 3 times for ATK upgrade. While it's true that 20 ATK less is bad (and probably the altar will cost a lot on later levels) I finished the level with an extra bomb, which might be pretty useful.
Final stats: HP 948, ATK 51, DEF 51, GR 131, REP 550 keys 8/3; wooden blade, wooden shield and hand bomb. The wooden blade might also be useful for possible oremites later?
- Route 2: I'm pretty sure I didn't play good here, my stats aren't that great, though I never used the altar (now I can use it 4 times for HP and kill the rattlesnake and then grab more keys). This time I tried to take short sword as soon as possible.
Final stats: HP 374, ATK 63, DEF 49, GR 232, REP 582 keys 1/0.

These stats could definitely be better but, as usual, I'll wait to see what you have in mind in the next level.
About that I have some questions:
1) Will the altar continue its GR progression like in TT?
2) Will you provide the inventory?
3) Will there be a story?



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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 10-24-2016 11:34 PM]
10-23-2016 at 10:23 AM
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Midootje
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Hi Nuntar, this is amazing! The butterfly is so strongly in effect in this hold that every single greckle spend in the first room can have a massive effect on the entire gameplay. I love it!
Now for stats: I usually went for the ATK route, but picked up 2 DEF, 1 ATK and 1300 HP in the first room. This enables me to get the extra green key in the second Level behind the Roach Queen before getting the Wooden Sword. Two ATK gems are really worth that HP sacrifice, in my opinion!
End Level 2 stats: 2087/33/24, with 45 greckles and 1/1 keys. In this Level, I could not be bothered to spend yellow keys for 200 HP each, since I quickly spotted in Third Level 1N that you need a lot of them to grab the goodies ASAP. Good thing about having this much HP is that I could grab the Wooden Shield immediately!
End Level 3 stats: 1209/75/51, 100 greckles and 6/4 keys. Beating the Rattlesnake was a worthy challenge, since I actually ended up having to spend an 'altar' upgrade on HP to do it.


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[Last edited by Midootje at 10-23-2016 11:58 AM]
10-23-2016 at 11:14 AM
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bomber50
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Third level
Click here to view the secret text

Fourth level
Click here to view the secret text

Choices in Level 3/4 well balanced here, none of the trades seemed too unreasonable. Levels look great, and I love how each level is introducing new features and setups. For instance, level 3 with hand bombs, an altar, and brains, and level 4 with oremites, a puzzly goblin room, a speed potion and equipment with various strengths and weaknesses.

There's a substantial difficulty spike with levels 3 and 4, possibly too much of one. Substantial altar use, IMO, should make the levels challenging, but ultimately beatable, for weaker players.

Loving this level set so far, looking forward to what comes next.

[Last edited by bomber50 at 10-24-2016 03:29 PM]
10-24-2016 at 05:53 AM
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Red-XIII
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I decided to continue my route 1, so I immediately took Claymore bombing rock golem. At first level 4 is a bit harder than the others but in the end it became easier. I took goblin biter though I'm not sure it was the best choice, since in the end goblins didn't hurt at all. I used no altar, which means that on the next level I'll start from 100. I also left a lot of health --> keys and greckles and I didn't get the extra blue key yet, since I'd like to see the next level first. Once again, not very optimized stats:

HP 3212, ATK 91, DEF 131, GR 1486, REP 2105 keys 10/8; Claymore, bronze shield, no accessory.

I didn't understand the REP thing at all, I press the special command and nothing happens, maybe you should add a scroll explaining what you have in mind. Also, am I supposed to kill the kid aumtlichs?

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10-24-2016 at 11:41 AM
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Nuntar
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Sorry if you didn't work it out. I'll think about how to introduce it better.

How it works: after you've activated the ability by listening to the lesson, you can transform items in the tile immediately ahead of you (the tile under your sword, if you are carrying one). The possible transformations and their REP costs are:

Small health -> medium health: 25 x multiplier
Medium health -> large health: 25 x multiplier
Large health -> shield gem: 50 x multiplier
Shield gem -> power gem: 50 x multiplier
Power gem -> yellow key: 100 x multiplier
Yellow key -> green key: 100 x multiplier
Green key -> blue key: 250 x multiplier
Blue key -> portable orb: 250 x multiplier
Portable orb -> pickaxe: 500 x multiplier
Speed potion -> invisbility potion: 500 x multiplier

You're not supposed to kill the Kid Aumtlichs because they're innocent children, so you lose 500 REP per kill.

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10-24-2016 at 03:11 PM
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Midootje
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Hey Nuntar, I tried the Fourth Level as well. Not sure whether I like this REP transformation system yet; I usually go for an ATK-based route, so I used all my REP to transform DEF gems into ATK ones. However, it's very unclear whether this method will prove effective in the end. Things like Swordsmen and other low HP, high DEF/ATK enemies will become very easy, but Goblins for example will almost never stop dealing damage. I know this may look like it adds a lot of replayability to the hold, but that basically depends on the last portion of the hold. If someone picks either route and it turns out to not be as optimal as the other one, that would be something that bums me out.
As silly as it sounds, more complex doesn't always mean better in my eyes. Of course it's hard to tell with the hold not being finished yet, but I'd rather wait until it's finished before playing this Level, because it personally frustrates me a little when I have absolutely no idea whether what I'm doing is the right thing or not. Having said that, if the hold turns out to be completable yet challenging through both methods, I will try my hardest to optimize both!
Edit: oops, what is the use of semi-constructive criticism without stats to review? End of Fourth Level: 9763/147/91 with 27 GR, 426 REP, 4/3/1 keys and a Speed Potion.

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[Last edited by Midootje at 10-25-2016 09:27 AM]
10-24-2016 at 07:10 PM
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Lucky Luc
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Okay, played through L3 and L4 now. I couldn't really continue the "no backtracking"-policy, but I didn't think a lot about what I was doing, so this might still count as a beginner run.

Stats:
2025 HP
116 ATK (Claymore)
115 DEF (Bronze Shield)
Speed Potion
1388 GR (still haven't used any altars yet)
28 REP (used a lot of transformations, however)
11/6/1 Keys.

So yeah, I had a bit of trouble with L3, but I hope these stats mean I'm pretty well prepared to face whatever awaits me in L4.

Basically, my strategy was to skip the short sword altogether, kill that one mad eye myself and use two hand bombs on the tar baby / goblin combo and the rattlesnake. Then I used the third hand bomb on the goblin king to get the goblin biter early. Also, this meant that I had a wooden sword ready in L4, allowing me to do some oremite fighting relatively early on. With the whole way L3 is set up, I'm guessing this is an intended path, though.

I needed to do quite a few questionable greckle-health-trades in L3 to get through, but considering my current monetary situation, I think it was a pretty reasonable path. Maybe even a bit too strong, though I guess I'd have to try another strategy in comparison

I personally like the transformation mechanic (I had read how it worked before playing, though). I ended up using a pretty mixed route as you can probably tell from my stats. I also started to convert quite a few large HP potions during after-level clean up.
10-25-2016 at 01:39 PM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Tetrahedron (0)  
If it helps, I replayed it again from the start taking a green key and 500 HP on level 1 and I never used keys or GR for HP expect 600HP for 60 GR on level 2.
I also decided to play balancing ATK and DEF, here's my stats before entering the new level.

End of level 2: HP 373, ATK 32, DEF 22, GR 75, REP 165 keys 1/2; Wooden blade.

End of level 3: HP 46, ATK 46, DEF 49, GR 183, REP 538 keys 10/4/0; Wooden blade, Wooden shield, hand bomb.
This one was tough, I had to use the altar 2 times for HP (used immediately to grab shield) and spent 60 GR for 600HP. Bombed rattlesnake and goblin & tar baby.

End of level 4: HP 4685, ATK 110, DEF 121, GR 605, REP 1114 keys 15/6/1; Claymore, bronze shield, speed potion.
Hard at first but it becase easier, also, I didn't replayed it much. Never trade GR or Keys for HP. I bombed the goblin king and used the altar for HP, ATK and DEF. Took Claymore and bronze shield as soon as possible.






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10-25-2016 at 05:37 PM
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Nuntar
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Level 5's up! I had another playthrough and decided to make some balancing changes to earlier levels. The only one that's really significant is, if you took the route of bombing the Level 3 rattlesnake, that now loses half the reward you could gain by fighting it with your sword.

The HP option at the altars has been reduced by 20%, so it's now 800, 1200, 1600. Note that it increases linearly, whereas the ATK and DEF options increase by the Fibonacci sequence.

I've now decided there will be only one more level, and it's a secret level. So it's possible to reach the normal ending in the hold as it stands now.

Some notes I took during my playthrough, hidden for length:
Click here to view the secret text

* * *

I've now completed Level 5, and managed to reach the secret exit, even though I was fumbling my way around and forgot some obvious optimisations. In the end, I needed to use the altar for HP twice more (once to get a blue key for the invisibility potion, once for the secret boss).

* * *

Replayed Level 5, trying to optimise better. I used the altar twice for ATK at the start of the level. This time I'm just short of the HP I need to kill the secret boss (with the invisibility potion). However, I bought keys during the run, so if I replayed the level and bought those keys (and spent them on stats) at the start, I should end up with more HP.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 10-26-2016 03:09 AM]
10-25-2016 at 10:51 PM
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Nitrate
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Alright, just some stats on my playthrough to the secret level exit. The final stats:

188 HP
313 ATK (Long Sword)
119 DEF (Steel Shield)
2250 GR
2185 REP
8/2/1 keys

I went for an ATK route, converting every single DEF gem that was in front of me except 2 of them.
I used the altar quite a lot (the next one would cost me 2500GR), buying HP once and ATK otherwise.

Level 5 was quite easy, even though I optimized very badly (or not at all) from level 4 onwards. I did not buy a single key (so I could buy 2 blue keys right now for instance), still have the 1 BK -> 2 GK trade available.
Also, I used the invisibility potion right at the end just to take 2 more gems and 1 GK, so that could be 2 BK spared if it's not useful.
I used the speed potion to fight the boss to the secret level.

[Last edited by Nitrate at 10-28-2016 11:03 PM]
10-26-2016 at 08:19 AM
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Red-XIII
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I played it again starting from these stats at the end of level 2:
HP 1491, ATK 31, DEF 24, GR 69, REP 159 keys 1/1

Once again, I bombed the rattlesnake on level 3, even though this made level 4 a bit harder, I think it's pretty balanced like this (had to use almost all GR for health).
Stats: HP 121, ATK 44, DEF 50, GR 87, REP 522 keys 9/2/0 Wooden blade and wooden shield

On level 4 I bombed the golem on 1N to take Claymore. Final stats:
Stats: HP 5412, ATK 110, DEF 116, GR 731, REP 670 keys 12/5/1 Claymore, bronze shield, speed potion.

I like level 5 a lot, once again the number of choices increased a lot. I didn't optimize this at all, since I want to see what you have in store for the secret level. In this run I immediately took the Lucky Greckle and heavily abused the altar (need 4000 now) but depending on what's level 5 I'll use it less or not at all.
I never bought keys, though I took all blue keys but one (left the one behind brained fegundo). This was I can also kill the giant golem before entering the secret level, this would grant me more GR. I also left some health.
Final stats:
HP 2637, ATK 227, DEF 225, GR 3291, REP 895 keys 9/3/2 Long sword, Steel shield, Lucky Greckle.
I used the speed potion for the Aumtlich master and invisibility potion on 1N.
On the other hand, I don't think that 2 blue keys for Claymore and Leather shield are worth it (IMO). Also, why you didn't allow to bring accessories to secret level?

EDIT: Yes, in 1N I used invisibility potion mainly because of the reward behind the fegundo, and for all the rest; it was definitely worth it, though I thought it was intended.

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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 10-26-2016 08:57 PM]
10-26-2016 at 10:42 AM
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Red-XIII
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Ok, I replayed level 5 and this time I never used the altar, it wasn't so hard as I expected. The biggest change was taking immediately the VIP card instead of lucky greckle. Once I reached 180 DEF (for a ton of REP from snake) I transformed all defense gem into ATK gems and small health in large health (it's really a blessing 600 HP for 75 REP).
I used speed potion against aumtlich master and I brought with me invisibility potion. Also, since I have extra blue keys (never bought or trasformed green key) I can also decide to take something else, depending of course on the last level.
Another thing, though I think it's intended, on 3E you can simply kill the tar blob to open the black door, so I don't have to kill 2 fegundo to take long sword.
There is still some health left, though it's behind yellow and green doors.
Final stats: HP 1378, ATK 250, DEF 180, GR 5691, REP 1215 keys 8/4/3 Long sword, Steel shield, Invisibility potion.


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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 10-26-2016 08:45 PM]
10-26-2016 at 08:37 PM
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Gordius
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This wasn't the case in the previous version, but I'm getting a crash in the magic school if I check monster stats after I've learned magic. Before I learn magic, it still gives the monster stats just fine. After I learn magic, DROD:RPG force quits without any kind of error.
10-29-2016 at 02:00 AM
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Nuntar
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Sixth Level -- and the hold -- is finished! Release candidate in the opening post.

Unfortunately there was a scripting bug that means current testers will have to replay from the magic lesson again. Some accessory transformations, including speed -> invisibility, weren't working, and that one in particular is important for 100% completion.

After much thought, I decided to add a second golem to Fourth Level 1N, closing off the sequence break several players were using. I've also removed the dumb-waiter in Fifth Level, so it is once again impossible to bring an accessory into Sixth Level. (The main reason for removing it was that having the VIP Card from the start of Sixth Level was absurdly overpowered. It is, however, possible to earn a replacement VIP Card in Sixth Level.)

Sixth Level has four score checkpoints: a midboss, a boss guarding the hold end stairs, and two secret checkpoints. One is for beating an Archivist (with the same stats as in Tendry's Tale), the other for making a Slayer flee by having enough stats to take zero damage. So the first is only possible on an ATK route, the second only on a DEF route. I've tested both routes and confirmed that both scorepoints are attainable -- I was even able to defeat the Archivist on my run starting by taking nothing from Level 1.

For the HAs, I've attached a walkthrough that defeats the Archivist. This, obviously, does not represent optimal play, just an attempt to play sensibly enough to win the hold. [EDIT: See post on next page for a walkthrough that includes Level 7.]

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 12-03-2016 02:59 AM]
10-30-2016 at 07:47 PM
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Gordius
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Nuntar, it looks like you removed some of your previous posts. In particular, the one where you listed the accessory transformation pairings. What does the Elixir transform to? I didn't have enough REP left when I got there.

I ask because, while it's easy enough to complete the game on a DEF (well, DEF-ish) path, I'm not convinced it's possible to kill the Archivist on that path. As it was, I had to change a lot of DEF to ATK on the sixth floor, first to get past the pirate guarding the black door orb and then later to get the speed potion. I needed the invisibility potion to get me past the potato, and would have needed another to hit the Archivist. If the Elixir (or Lucky Coin or VIP Card, for that matter; though if it's only one, that would be cruel) can become an invisibility potion, then I just need to manage my REP better (which, if I'd known, I could have; I burned through a lot of REP at the end for what turned out to be nominal improvements). If not, I would have needed to change a lot more DEF to ATK, and would likely have ended with more ATK than DEF, which isn't really a DEF path.

Also, I'm not sure the fleeing Slayer script quite works for a DEF path. When I first approached, it said "You have the Hook, I'll let you through", but didn't let me through. And then when I came back with enough DEF to take no damage, I just killed it with no damage. It didn't run away.
10-31-2016 at 01:54 AM
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Nuntar
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The Elixir doesn't transform to anything. The only way to make an invisibility potion is to transform a speed potion, so you can only have one on Sixth Level. It's intended that the Archivist is the ultimate scorepoint for the ATK path, and making the Slayer flee is the ultimate scorepoint for the DEF path, to encourage the player to try out both.

I'll have a look at the scripting when I get the chance. I tested out the first part, and it seems to work as intended: if you don't have the Hook yet, the Slayer closes the black doors, and then if you come back with the Hook, he opens them again. If you have the Hook already the first time you're in the room, he doesn't close them. Did you get different behaviour?

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50th Skywatcher
10-31-2016 at 02:06 AM
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Gordius
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That part worked as intended, but when I eventually had enough defense, I walked up to him and he hit me with his hook, which did no damage, and then I killed him for no damage. He didn't do or say anything to suggest "fleeing". And even if he had, he definitely doesn't seem like as big an achievement as rising to the level of "secret boss" for the DEF path.
11-02-2016 at 10:39 AM
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Nuntar
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New version uploaded, with the following changes:

* Slayer's script should work properly for all cases, whether you have the Hook the first time you approach, or don't have it and later acquire it. If you approach him, without sufficient stats to make him flee, but then leave him alive and come back with sufficient stats, you get the score checkpoint as expected. If you have the Hook the first time you approach, he says "I shall let you approach" rather than "I shall let you pass", since the original wording might suggest the intention was that he would stand aside and let them take the Wyrmsmiter.

* The keys and potion in the repeatable trades (5:2E and 6:3N2E) cannot be transformed. I've added a line to the scrolls clarifying this.

* A scroll in the brained Adder's room explains the Elixir, and clarifies that it cannot be transformed.

* Fixed 6:3E so that if you are using the Invisibility Potion to kill the Potato Rotator, you can't get the bonuses for free as well.

Other than writing the level intro texts, this is a serious candidate for sending to the HAs, so now is the time to give any feedback on any remaining balancing or playability issues while there is still time to make changes :)

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11-06-2016 at 06:08 AM
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Red-XIII
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Ok, I replayed the hold again and I'm fine with how the first 5 levels are balanced; I started a new game because now the bomb is no longer useful on level 4. I also didn't kill the rattlesnake on level 3 because I'd have to use the altar, and I decided not to use any until the very last. This allowed me to choose between full ATK route and DEF route, but DEF route is absolutely not balanced, I managed to kill the slayer with no damage and beat the archivist without optimizing and by leaving lots of health and keys. The ATK route was harder but definitely balanced. Here's full comments and stats on various levels:

Level 1:
Click here to view the secret text

Level 2:
Click here to view the secret text

Level 3:
Click here to view the secret text

Level 4:
Click here to view the secret text

Level 5:
Click here to view the secret text

Level 6:
Click here to view the secret text


All in all, the final level is nice and once again, there are many choices. But if you manage to use the final altar without ever using the others, then DEF route is a lot more effective than ATK route.

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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 11-06-2016 07:49 PM]
11-06-2016 at 07:33 PM
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Red-XIII
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I'm replaying it now but I'd like to ask you something before finishing it (so far it's just a bit harder).
After I took the pickaxe and exited the room the special command stopped working, it's not even enabled, is this intended? If so, you should add a scroll saying that.

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11-07-2016 at 08:20 PM
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Nuntar
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No, that definitely shouldn't happen. Which pickaxe, which direction did you exit, and where did you try using the special command?

Special command is disabled (since the previous update) in the "shop" in L6 3N2E, but it should work again as soon as you leave the shop (and I've tested this and it's working as intended for me).

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50th Skywatcher
11-07-2016 at 08:37 PM
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Red-XIII
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Level 6 1N2E, restored from the end of level 5.
It doesn't matter which direction I exit, I tried all of them and every time I exited, I lost the special command; it's not that it doesn't work, the colour in the bar become grey, like it's disabled. Before taking the pickaxe I visited 3N2E and I bought 3 times HP.

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay. There's just this one, just this rock
-33th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Red-XIII at 11-07-2016 08:46 PM]
11-07-2016 at 08:44 PM
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Red-XIII
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I tried several things to understand why this happened but didn't solve anything. I restored from the end of level 5 and I arrived to the pickaxe without entering on 3N2E, but it's the same. After I take the pickaxe (I also trasformed it into a portable orb and leave it there, also leaving there the pickaxe) and exit, the special command become disabled. I know it's a silly thought but, could it be that something strange happened when I imported the new version? If no one else manage to reproduce this maybe it's just my problem?

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11-09-2016 at 09:51 AM
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Midootje
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Finally got round to finishing this hold. With the entire (?) hold published, it becomes clear that my initial approach of spending Greckles at the altar in Third Level to kill the Rattlesnake without using the Hand Bombs was the wrong one. The Greckle cost goes up drastically in the last Level, so I decided to make a run without using the altar at all, until the last one.
I went for a purely ATK based route until I hit the point where I could oneshot Schrekschwinge, and got as much DEF as possible after that. Before approaching the Archivist, my stats were:
HP 6320, ATK 838, DEF 300, GR 275, REP 2308. I had zero keys left. In this run, I transformed almost every medium potion I found into a large one (REALLY cheap for the gain) and a lot of large potions into gems, ATK ones at first, DEF ones later. That's why my HP is rather low at the end (I used the Elixir to get a 4800 boost).
Maybe I'll try a DEF run later, but I would imagine it would be horrible to get past ATK chokepoints like the Swordsman, Rock Golem, Seep, etc. so it might take a while.

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11-09-2016 at 05:32 PM
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Nuntar
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And Level 7's up! :thumbsup This is definitely the last level, so the hold is complete, except for intro texts, ending text, and any changes after further feedback. I've tested to make sure the level is possible to complete on either ATK or DEF paths, but I haven't yet tried to continue from my save that skips Level 1.

Bomber50 earlier mentioned that each level adds additional mechanics, and Level 7 introduces a mechanic this hold has shunned so far -- backtracking. You can go back to Level 6 (but no further). However, all score checkpoints in Level 6 are disabled after entering Level 7.

Because Level 6 has separate final bosses for the ATK and DEF paths, there are two ways in to Level 7, leading to different areas, which eventually converge. I've tried to balance the level by having a mixture of enemies that are easier to kill on the ATK path and enemies that are easier to kill on the DEF path.

You might notice a pattern in the enemies' stats in this level...
Click here to view the secret text

Thanks to everyone who's played and given feedback on this hold! :thumbsup

* * *

Added the ultimate bonus boss: a Gentryii! This is a severe test of your optimisation, but I've tested to make sure it's killable on both ATK and DEF paths.

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50th Skywatcher
11-22-2016 at 01:53 PM
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