Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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File: The Sorcerers Revenge.drh (19.9 KB)
Downloaded 73 times.
License: Public Domain

So, I guess it's time I finally showed you the crazy awesome thing I've been working on the past few days. It's ... well, what the subtitle says, basically. Yay! As if there hadn't been enough decisions in RPG already.

I'm better at scripting than at RPG architecture, but I tried to come up with a reasonably interesting demonstration level that requires to make a few choices. I'm sure other architects could do better than that, though, so if you would like to use or modify this for your own hold, please feel free to do so! In fact, I'd be super happy if someone wanted to make something exciting out of this (or if there would be interest to turn this into a collaborative effort).

Unfortunately, because of one attack type, this system requires holds with entirely custom monsters (or at least scripted copies of the originals), which makes some things a bit difficult. I suppose mimics wouldn't be too hard to recreate, and snakes and rock giants should probably be possible, too. I'm less optimistic about tarstuff / tarstuff mothers and roach queens, though, which is a bit of a shame.

Also, if anyone's interested, I can share some musings about the system and the values of different spells.

So yeah. I hope you enjoy!

(Also note that I've never actually played TotS. I should stop making references to things I don't know)

EDIT: v2 uploaded

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[Last edited by Lucky Luc at 03-01-2016 11:41 AM]

Gordius
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 91
Registered: 12-16-2008
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Oh, wow. That's really interesting. It's going to take some getting used to and figuring out before I can really comment much more intelligently than that, but I like this idea.

One preliminary comment: Clearer descriptions of the spells, outside the challenge protecting them (like you have for the fire staff), would be helpful. I fought through to the water spell and was very disappointed to find something I wasn't even close to strong enough to cast. I know I can save and revert, and if I was more familiar with this system, I probably would. But given that I'm still trying to learn how to evaluate decisions (initial approach, value everything through the lens of the HP/mana ratio for the healing spell), more information would be kinder than less. And since I assume this code is extremely flexible, a player is always going to have to redevelop that assessment system with each new hold (or even level). That's a strength of the system, but it does mean that providing players with as much information, as soon as possible, will enable them to better make decisions.

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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Good point. Updated the hold to include some scrolls describing the spells beforehand.

The water spell in particular is ridiculously overpriced at the moment, of course - even when used on the strongest enemy of the level, it would not even do 2x Blaze's damage. The main reasoning for making it so expensive is that it's potentially extremely effective for late-game bosses and I currently don't want to increase a spell's cost with progressing tiers, though that's certainly a possibility, at least for some of them.

And yes, I don't expect the system to be very well balanced at the moment. Luckily, as you've said, the system is pretty flexible, so changing that should be no problem

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1304
Registered: 06-14-2005
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You really should change the REP of all monsters to 0, and keep track of mana as REP. Much easier

More comments when I'm through it.

Gordius
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 91
Registered: 12-16-2008
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Someone Else wrote:
You really should change the REP of all monsters to 0, and keep track of mana as REP. Much easier

More comments when I'm through it.

I thought of this, as well, but it would mean that you can't use Rep for anything else, like a leveling system, that would be appropriate in this setup. On balance, I'm okay with the way that this is tracked currently.

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1304
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Ah, I see what you mean. Fair enough.

Gordius
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 91
Registered: 12-16-2008
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Finished it. It is very, very difficult to gauge the value of stat gems, especially ATK. I'm not sure that's bad, but it's going to take more time before I can figure out what to suggest.

That said, having the fire staff essentially double your attack capabilities seems too much. You could make that gauntlet almost anything and it would still be the first place to go. You might think about removing the key option entirely.

Also, I get that cast spells while standing in an eye's attack range is supposed to be expensive, but it attacks for each new menu choice (so three times to cast the spell). Is that deliberate or just something you can't script around?

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[Last edited by Gordius at 03-01-2016 11:07 PM]

Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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Yes, good points. While it's probably not necessary to collect any ATK gems on this level since the hellhound is pretty easy to take down with the fire staff alone, I do think they will be valuable in the later levels, because eventually you will have to fight stuff. (If there should ever be any later levels, of course)

The last monster of the gauntlet used to be a spider, which made the fire staff a lot harder to obtain, but I felt like that might be too hard, so I changed it. Maybe that was wrong. Anyway, other possibilities would be to a) multiply all mana values by a certain factor to make the 20 % more accurate or b) move the fire staff to a later level, where Blaze is a lot weaker.

I must admit I never even thought about using _REP as mana But yeah, since it works and people might find other uses for the _REP value, I'll probably leave it as it is.

Spells hurting that much in proximity to attacking enemies is indeed something that I couldn't find a workaround for. It seems like after asking a question, at least one turn has to pass before the script continues. By now I consider it a feature and not a bug Still, if anyone has an idea how to avoid this, please tell me.

That being said, kieranmiller mentioned in chat that this level might be a bit overwhelming with choices, considering the player has to learn an entirely new mechanic, and also considering your comments so far this seems to be a valid point. So if I'm going to continue this hold, I'll probably completely rework this level anyway.

Anyway, Nuntar has expressed interest to make a hold of his own with this, which I'd very much look forward to. So for now, I think I'll leave the hold as it is and maybe try to further improve my own playing and architecting skills before I tackle this one again.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
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So, I played it through, and so far only one spell seems really usefull. Fun concept, though, and I hope you continue the project.

Gordius
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 91
Registered: 12-16-2008
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Blondbeard wrote:
So, I played it through, and so far only one spell seems really usefull. Fun concept, though, and I hope you continue the project.

I disagree. Breeze Shield is very useful. It's not as valuable as the Fire Staff, so it's far more worthwhile to save up keys for that first and then worry about the shield next, but still a substantial benefit even in this short level.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
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Oh, yeah! That would have been useful. I never got around to pick it up...

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 03-03-2016 04:12 PM]