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Heroinefan
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icon Swan princess morality. (0)  
on the subject of swan morailty whos to say what is the right thing?

You would think it was a no brainer right? give her back her wings...but then she abandons her son...as such creatures in legends are wot to do.

That is...upon returning to there true form/the trick undone, contract broken, human form abadoned ect.

The child should have also turned into a swan, and left with the mother if this action was taken.

The husband was undoubtly clever, and foolish at the same time as those in such fairy tales, myths and legends, often are.

On the whole perhaps it would have been better not to interfer and let it play its course, she would have came to resolution in the end anyway is my guess.

She only seemed to love her son in human form, in swan form she undoubtly resented him, but loved the heroine. Was that part of the point?

[Last edited by Heroinefan at 05-21-2015 11:55 AM]
05-21-2015 at 11:49 AM
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Fizzii
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (0)  
Sometimes there is no right or wrong answer, hence choosing to give her the wings (or not) does not affect honour.

You'd find out at the end what happens if you do give back the wings though.
05-21-2015 at 09:50 PM
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Heroinefan
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (0)  
quote:
Fizzii wrote:
Sometimes there is no right or wrong answer, hence choosing to give her the wings (or not) does not affect honour.

You'd find out at the end what happens if you do give back the wings though.


Still dose not seem as if her faimly is with her only chasing or following her as a bird they are still never together again, or at least thins is not implied. I mean you could chase a pidgeon around that dose not mean it nessacarly wants anything to do with you.
05-22-2015 at 08:25 AM
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Fizzii
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (0)  
They're not chasing her, they're with her in the sky :)

I mean, Hervor does love her family, she just longed to be free.
05-22-2015 at 11:11 AM
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Heroinefan
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Fizzii wrote:
They're not chasing her, they're with her in the sky :)

I mean, Hervor does love her family, she just longed to be free.


Thats good to know, and makes me feel better about the whole thing...but also no bird fly all the time would wear out her wings...so do you think she will touch down and talk to her family sometime as a human? As a creator of the story do you think so?
05-22-2015 at 11:48 AM
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Fizzii
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Probably. That is how she met Volund after all :)
05-22-2015 at 10:48 PM
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Radiant
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Heime can't turn into a swan, although if Hervor had a daughter then it may have been possible. Only women get to be a swanmaiden, after all.

Note also that Heime wouldn't want to hurt his mother; so in the endgame scene, he and Volund are flying with her, not trying to catch her.

And yes, Hervor will land on occasion (in fact, you can find her in swan form in several locations in the game). She'll probably not want to take human form for a while, though.

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05-26-2015 at 07:28 PM
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Heroinefan
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Radiant wrote:
Heime can't turn into a swan, although if Hervor had a daughter then it may have been possible. Only women get to be a swanmaiden, after all.

Well given his name....hahaha, sorry bad joke. Bad. Just no...but when hervor said something like: my little heime is missing!...I cracked up and so did my 55 year old mother...so I know it was not just me being oddball...poor kid.


Note also that Heime wouldn't want to hurt his mother; so in the endgame scene, he and Volund are flying with her, not trying to catch her.

And yes, Hervor will land on occasion (in fact, you can find her in swan form in several locations in the game). She'll probably not want to take human form for a while, though.


Dont blame her, husband tricked her and ripped off her wings. No flying back to him on the wings off love, but she dose have her son to consider.

[Last edited by Heroinefan at 05-29-2015 05:06 AM]
05-29-2015 at 04:38 AM
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ConjurerDragon
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Heroinefan wrote:
Dont blame her, husband tricked her and ripped off her wings. No flying back to him on the wings off love, but she dose have her son to consider.


Does it actually say that he ripped off her wings?
I donít remember to have read that ingame. The usual way in myth was that the swanmaiden was bathing somewhere and a guy stole her swan dress/magic robe.

10-03-2017 at 10:47 PM
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Heroinefan
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (0)  
quote:
ConjurerDragon wrote:
quote:
Heroinefan wrote:
Dont blame her, husband tricked her and ripped off her wings. No flying back to him on the wings off love, but she dose have her son to consider.


Does it actually say that he ripped off her wings?
I donít remember to have read that ingame. The usual way in myth was that the swanmaiden was bathing somewhere and a guy stole her swan dress/magic robe.


I know what you mean, its usually her gown which is fine. I could not understand how one could steal actual wings without removing them. Unless its a talismanic object of power, and not her actual swan wings. Yet the game seems to suggest it is her swan wings. On the other hand they look like symbolic objects and not severed wings but who can really say? (Its a interesting lore question though inst it?
10-15-2017 at 04:21 PM
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Radiant
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (0)  
quote:
ConjurerDragon wrote: The usual way in myth was that the swanmaiden was bathing somewhere and a guy stole her swan dress/magic robe.

Yes, this is the background. Bear in mind that Hervor doesn't know that
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Radiant at 10-16-2017 10:26 AM]
10-16-2017 at 10:26 AM
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Heroinefan
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (0)  
quote:
Radiant wrote:
quote:
ConjurerDragon wrote: The usual way in myth was that the swanmaiden was bathing somewhere and a guy stole her swan dress/magic robe.

Yes, this is the background. Bear in mind that Hervor doesn't know that
Click here to view the secret text



I like hervor a lot and Hime is very lucky to have her as a mother to balance off his father, telling him stories of other words and from Alice in wonderland.

He will develop good taste as well as battle prowess.

I see why voland loves her, she contains what hes missing. Maybe I am giving him to much credit bt some how I don't think so. He acts like a stereotype, but I don't think that's the truth of the man.

His choice reflects his taste. Also his ability to craft such things as he dose, the magic chest and the sword. Note, he was not sniffing after lithrazir or the like, but chose instead, a legendary creature.

He has given his son the perfect mother, who, along with what he has to offer the boy will give him every tool needed to become, not just a fine warrior, but the stuff of legends.

Hime is a very lucky boy, I don't think even he knew how lucky. He is too young to know.

[Last edited by Heroinefan at 10-17-2017 03:45 PM]
10-17-2017 at 03:40 PM
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ConjurerDragon
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (+2)  
...
He will develop good taste as well as battle prowess.

I see why voland loves her, she contains what hes missing. Maybe I am giving him to much credit bt some how I don't think so. He acts like a stereotype, but I don't think that's the truth of the man.

His choice reflects his taste. Also his ability to craft such things as he dose, the magic chest and the sword. Note, he was not sniffing after lithrazir or the like, but chose instead, a legendary creature.

He has given his son the perfect mother, who, along with what he has to offer the boy will give him every tool needed to become, not just a fine warrior, but the stuff of legends.

Hime is a very lucky boy, I don't think even he knew how lucky. He is too young to know.


Volund is the english name for Wayland the Smith/Wieland/
so definitely not a lucky future for Heime with his dad... :no

Mmmh, I canít post a link to WIKI with less than 12 rank points and have only 10 - how do I get 2 more?
10-17-2017 at 04:30 PM
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Heroinefan
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (+2)  
quote:
ConjurerDragon wrote:
...
He will develop good taste as well as battle prowess.

I see why voland loves her, she contains what hes missing. Maybe I am giving him to much credit bt some how I don't think so. He acts like a stereotype, but I don't think that's the truth of the man.

His choice reflects his taste. Also his ability to craft such things as he dose, the magic chest and the sword. Note, he was not sniffing after lithrazir or the like, but chose instead, a legendary creature.

He has given his son the perfect mother, who, along with what he has to offer the boy will give him every tool needed to become, not just a fine warrior, but the stuff of legends.

Hime is a very lucky boy, I don't think even he knew how lucky. He is too young to know.


Volund is the english name for Wayland the Smith/Wieland/
so definitely not a lucky future for Heime with his dad... :no

Mmmh, I canít post a link to WIKI with less than 12 rank points and have only 10 - how do I get 2 more?


Some weirdness I don't know about? Good grief.

[Last edited by Heroinefan at 10-17-2017 04:37 PM]
10-17-2017 at 04:36 PM
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Radiant
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (0)  
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Heroinefan wrote: Some weirdness I don't know about? Good grief.


He... goes on to craft Durendale, Albion, and Caliburn...

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10-17-2017 at 06:26 PM
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Heroinefan
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (0)  
quote:
Radiant wrote:
quote:
Heroinefan wrote: Some weirdness I don't know about? Good grief.


He... goes on to craft Durendale, Albion, and Caliburn...


25
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quote:

Arthurian legend is essentially combined from a wide variety of sources, and there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer.

The first narrative account is from Geoffrey of Monmouth in Historia Regum Britanniae (History of the Kings of Britain), 12th Century. He wrote, in Latin, of a sword called Caliburnus, which was made on the isle of Avalon.

Wace wrote Roman de Brut (12th Century), which is described as "an Old French translation and versification of [Monmouth]". According to Wiki, the sword is called Calabrum, Callibourc, Chalabrun, and Calabrun (with alternate spellings such as Chalabrum, Calibore, Callibor, Caliborne, Calliborc, and Escaliborc).

Chretien de Troyes wrote, in Perceval, (again in the 12th Century), of a sword called Escalibor or Excalibor.

Robert de Boron (late 12th/early 13th Century), in Merlin, wrote of the Sword in the Stone, and about the idea of only "one true king" being able to retrieve the sword. It isn't confirmed that this sword is Excalibur, but later versions took this story and called the sword Excalibur.


I found this..so he made King Authors sword Excalibur? How dose that make him a bad father? How did a Viking make it into Arthurian legend for that matter? Now if he had contributed to writhing the Necronomicon, and made it to the Cuthlu mythos, that might be another matter..possibly.
10-17-2017 at 07:29 PM
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ConjurerDragon
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (0)  
quote:
Heroinefan wrote:
...
I found this..so he made King Authors sword Excalibur?


Only a member of the working class would be able to create such a feat, "Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical
aquatic ceremony." :snorkle

quote:

How dose that make him a bad father? How did a Viking make it into Arthurian legend for that matter? Now if he had contributed to writhing the Necronomicon, and made it to the Cuthlu mythos, that might be another matter..possibly.


A viking could not have made it historically into whatever historical truth is behind arthurian legend. That is because King Arthur/Art-Uther/Ambrosius Aurelianus was a king of the british (not the today people who call themselves british - those are the historical anglo-saxon invaders) who fought the invasion of the continental angles, saxon and jutes. And so long before anyone first heard of vikings when those plundered Lindisfarne.

Wieland in the legends is no viking. "Viking" is a far too narrow description of the norse raiders and describes only a part of the norse culture and history. The old norse language was understandable not only by people speaking old english but continental germanic speakers too. That is part of the reason that his tale spread far and wide and he (as a mastersmith) was used by other storytellers to introduce some mastermade weapon without historical evidence - after all he is said to have forged the sword of Roland too (the frankish knight who was so full of hot air that he always carried a big horn called olifant and who died protecting the retreat of the frankish kings :king invasion of muslim Catalonia).

Wieland shares part of his story with Daedalus, only that Daedalu s story was far more funny than his. :indian

[Last edited by ConjurerDragon at 10-17-2017 08:51 PM]
10-17-2017 at 08:47 PM
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Heroinefan
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icon Re: Swan princess morality. (0)  
quote:
ConjurerDragon wrote:
Supreme executive power
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical
aquatic ceremony." :snorkle




Hey, I'm educated, I went to Miskatonic University and can tell you, the citizens of Innsmouth would have disagreed.
10-18-2017 at 03:32 AM
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